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If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back

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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#21 » by GonzoLays » Fri Aug 8, 2008 5:24 am

Khoee wrote:
GonzoLays wrote:I remember Ainge talking about drafting players in the 2nd round this year who agreed to goto Europe for a couple years of seasoning.

With the Euro kicking the dollar's ass, Walker could get a pretty sweet deal and probably an even better second deal in Europe that would dwarf what the Celtics would give him as a 2nd rounder.

We better keep Walker here on the cheap or he is gonna cost down the road.

If we let him goto Europe, we might not get him back.


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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#22 » by sam_I_am » Fri Aug 8, 2008 1:26 pm

If Sully is right maybe the point is moot.

However, it makes sense for the Celtics to have him play there this year because he just had knee surgery and this year is wasted. Paying luxury tax or tying up his roster spot for a guy who is likely to be physically unable to perform for 1/2 the season is foolish. If he goes to Europe we can keep him at rookie scale for longer.

Guys like Walker won't contribute in any significant way for 2-3 years even without surgery after the draft. Sending him to Europe means not wasting the first year of his rookie contract. Makes perfect sense for the C's.
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#23 » by sully00 » Fri Aug 8, 2008 3:47 pm

Actually Walker is a 2nd round pick so he is not on any kind of rookie scale. He really can't go to Europe if he is hurt anyhow, no team will want him if they even would in the first place.

The financial control over a player like Walker simply depends on his contract. If Ainge can get him to sign a 3 year deal with MLE money they they have an additional year of restricted FA, if he only signs the minimum deal then it is 2 years and restricted FA. With the money overseas right now Boston would actually be at risk of never seeing Bill Walker again as this thread suggests because if shows anything he isn't going to be willing to play for the minimum and if he doesn't then why would Boston want him back. Either way he isn't taking a 3 year deal on the cheap after spending a season in Europe.

Ainge doesn't even like having his kids go to summer league or play in the NBADL never mind go to Europe, especially considering that if the make up of his roster means anything he really doesn't care for that type of player.
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#24 » by GuyClinch » Fri Aug 8, 2008 6:37 pm

Guys like Walker won't contribute in any significant way for 2-3 years even without surgery after the draft. Sending him to Europe means not wasting the first year of his rookie contract. Makes perfect sense for the C's.


How exactly do you know this? Your just making this up. Maybe TA gets hurt. Maybe he outplays Giddens in camp.. Maybe he recovers fully from his injury..
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#25 » by Celtics_85 » Fri Aug 8, 2008 7:11 pm

Funny how Ainge has put together a championship team and people are worried about a backup who would be fourth off the bench as a wing player. If Ainge thought we were hurting there he would have fixed it at this point. He has already said we have our 9 man rotation in tact and the tenth man only may fill in a few minutes on the court.
If we bring in a wing guy that is better than Scal, Walker, or Giddens we would have to give him minutes, and who's minutes does he get? I don't see where Walker or Giddens can't contribute on defense as we have enough scoring, and with their athletic ability they will get a few points off cuts to the basket and dump offs. I think we are set for now at the wings.
I can understand the concern if Perkins gets injured, but as long as he is healthy for the playoffs we can get through the season with what we have. If Ainge is worried he will sign a veteran third string Center on the cheap that can give us size.
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#26 » by ryaningf » Fri Aug 8, 2008 8:56 pm

There is a huge level of misinformation going on in this ridiculous thread.

To wit: whether Bill Walker will play in Europe. Bill Walker said in his Comcast interview that he was fine playing in Europe if that's what it takes to make the NBA. And, as of yet, we have no official information that the Cs are even considering asking him to play overseas. There have been many internet rumors of him being asked to play in Europe eventually, but that's never been confirmed by the Cs. And, regardless of what he may or may not have said to DET regarding Europe, it's not out of the question that getting drafted by the Cs in the 2nd round changed his mind.

As for being hurt: he'll probably be at full strength come training camp. It was just a minor meniscus tear and, according to Scott Souza, Walker was at Healthpoint a mere 2 weeks after surgery, doing some light shooting, lifting and rehab work. Souza also said that Bill had obviously hit the weight room in the interim between his initial appearance at Healthpoint (when he was introduced to the media) and then because he was looking like the mini-Lebron he was rumored to be prior to the draft, in terms of his pro-ready body. People who think it'll take 2-3 years for Walker to make an impact are vastly underrating this kid's ability. With health, he could be in the rotation by mid-season next year. He's a first round pick who slid because of injury concerns. When those injury concerns subside, he's still got his first round talent. And that usually plays in most circumstances, especially on a team without any clear-cut back up small forward (though I think Tony will acquit himself there just fine if called to do so by Doc).

In short, Walker is living at Healthpoint this offseason, and you know Danny et al are aware of his presence. He's working his butt off to get ready for training camp and I expect the C's to offer him a 3 year contract with a portion of the MLE sometime in August. I also expect he'll spend some time in the NBDL in the beginning of the season, and if he can maintain his health, eventually get a shot at NBA minutes, either because of someone else's injury, or because he fights his way onto the court. Looking at Doc's history with rookies, they usually don't get their shot to shine until mid-season and I expect the same will occur with Walker and Giddens to an extent.

Hard work pays off and you know Bill Walker is working as hard as he can to make an impact on this team. And even if Danny comes up with another swing man (highly unlikely, in my opinion), you can bet BIll Walker will not hesitate to take his work ethic and talent to Europe for a year if that's what he's asked to do. But I think the Cs see the work he's putting in for this season, and they'll reward him for it by offering him a contract this season.
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#27 » by Big Baby » Sat Aug 9, 2008 4:08 am

ryaningf wrote:There is a huge level of misinformation going on in this ridiculous thread.

To wit: whether Bill Walker will play in Europe. Bill Walker said in his Comcast interview that he was fine playing in Europe if that's what it takes to make the NBA. And, as of yet, we have no official information that the Cs are even considering asking him to play overseas. There have been many internet rumors of him being asked to play in Europe eventually, but that's never been confirmed by the Cs. And, regardless of what he may or may not have said to DET regarding Europe, it's not out of the question that getting drafted by the Cs in the 2nd round changed his mind.

As for being hurt: he'll probably be at full strength come training camp. It was just a minor meniscus tear and, according to Scott Souza, Walker was at Healthpoint a mere 2 weeks after surgery, doing some light shooting, lifting and rehab work. Souza also said that Bill had obviously hit the weight room in the interim between his initial appearance at Healthpoint (when he was introduced to the media) and then because he was looking like the mini-Lebron he was rumored to be prior to the draft, in terms of his pro-ready body. People who think it'll take 2-3 years for Walker to make an impact are vastly underrating this kid's ability. With health, he could be in the rotation by mid-season next year. He's a first round pick who slid because of injury concerns. When those injury concerns subside, he's still got his first round talent. And that usually plays in most circumstances, especially on a team without any clear-cut back up small forward (though I think Tony will acquit himself there just fine if called to do so by Doc).

In short, Walker is living at Healthpoint this offseason, and you know Danny et al are aware of his presence. He's working his butt off to get ready for training camp and I expect the C's to offer him a 3 year contract with a portion of the MLE sometime in August. I also expect he'll spend some time in the NBDL in the beginning of the season, and if he can maintain his health, eventually get a shot at NBA minutes, either because of someone else's injury, or because he fights his way onto the court. Looking at Doc's history with rookies, they usually don't get their shot to shine until mid-season and I expect the same will occur with Walker and Giddens to an extent.

Hard work pays off and you know Bill Walker is working as hard as he can to make an impact on this team. And even if Danny comes up with another swing man (highly unlikely, in my opinion), you can bet BIll Walker will not hesitate to take his work ethic and talent to Europe for a year if that's what he's asked to do. But I think the Cs see the work he's putting in for this season, and they'll reward him for it by offering him a contract this season.

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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#28 » by cloverleaf » Sat Aug 9, 2008 1:29 pm

I never quite got the point of sending him to Europe either. My hope is that the way free agency has gone he'll get a chance to backup the 3 spot for the C's sooner rather than later.
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#29 » by billfromBoston » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:19 pm

ryaningf wrote:There is a huge level of misinformation going on in this ridiculous thread.

To wit: whether Bill Walker will play in Europe. Bill Walker said in his Comcast interview that he was fine playing in Europe if that's what it takes to make the NBA. And, as of yet, we have no official information that the Cs are even considering asking him to play overseas. There have been many internet rumors of him being asked to play in Europe eventually, but that's never been confirmed by the Cs. And, regardless of what he may or may not have said to DET regarding Europe, it's not out of the question that getting drafted by the Cs in the 2nd round changed his mind.

As for being hurt: he'll probably be at full strength come training camp. It was just a minor meniscus tear and, according to Scott Souza, Walker was at Healthpoint a mere 2 weeks after surgery, doing some light shooting, lifting and rehab work. Souza also said that Bill had obviously hit the weight room in the interim between his initial appearance at Healthpoint (when he was introduced to the media) and then because he was looking like the mini-Lebron he was rumored to be prior to the draft, in terms of his pro-ready body. People who think it'll take 2-3 years for Walker to make an impact are vastly underrating this kid's ability. With health, he could be in the rotation by mid-season next year. He's a first round pick who slid because of injury concerns. When those injury concerns subside, he's still got his first round talent. And that usually plays in most circumstances, especially on a team without any clear-cut back up small forward (though I think Tony will acquit himself there just fine if called to do so by Doc).

In short, Walker is living at Healthpoint this offseason, and you know Danny et al are aware of his presence. He's working his butt off to get ready for training camp and I expect the C's to offer him a 3 year contract with a portion of the MLE sometime in August. I also expect he'll spend some time in the NBDL in the beginning of the season, and if he can maintain his health, eventually get a shot at NBA minutes, either because of someone else's injury, or because he fights his way onto the court. Looking at Doc's history with rookies, they usually don't get their shot to shine until mid-season and I expect the same will occur with Walker and Giddens to an extent.

Hard work pays off and you know Bill Walker is working as hard as he can to make an impact on this team. And even if Danny comes up with another swing man (highly unlikely, in my opinion), you can bet BIll Walker will not hesitate to take his work ethic and talent to Europe for a year if that's what he's asked to do. But I think the Cs see the work he's putting in for this season, and they'll reward him for it by offering him a contract this season.


...to be fair, Walker does have quite a bit to work on in terms of ball-handling, shooting beyond 15 feet, and general decision-making on drives...

However, he is an extremely hard-working and intelligent person and there is no doubt that the extra time and open-minded approach to improvement should certainly gain the attention of Ainge as his office overlooks to practice court that Walker is getting his work in on...

I do AGREE with Sam however, (can't believe i typed that) that it is unlikely that Walker will be a significant contributor for his first couple of years in the NBA. Statistically speaking, the odds of any draftee making a team rotation in the first couple of seasons is limited to the top 5 on the whole...I do think he can grab situational minutes for sure, but there is so much competition at his position with much more experience and tons of talent...so breaking into the rotation won't be an easy task on this team...

However, the injury he sustained was indeed minor, and before this latest set-back Walker was looking lean, powerful, and explosive. So, any lack of game-readiness won't come from his present or previous injuries.

Walker's talent is certainly top 20 caliber from this draft. Without all the injury concerns he would certainly have been gone in the first round and could very well have been a lotto pick if he had delivered his freshmen season at KSU instead of missing the year with an ACL....speaking of which, ACL recovery these days is a high-probability venture, don't use Tony Allen's need for a "mental floss" as the basis point for opinion on this.

Overall though, Walker stands to benefit the most by battling Paul Pierce and watching him as much as possible...Walker has the ability and the drive to become a helluva player and Pierce is the ideal model for his development IMO...Walker reminds me of a Carmelo Anthony type because of his athleticism, somewhat of a hybrid 3/4 who can shoot well-enough to set up powerful drives and post-up his man...powerful, quick jumper who needs little time to get up and finish strong...doesn't need to gather hardly at all and is immovable once going forward...lacks polish, but not desire to grow as a player...a steal in my book for the mere purchase price of a few hundred K...
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#30 » by ryaningf » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:32 pm

billfromBoston wrote: Overall though, Walker stands to benefit the most by battling Paul Pierce and watching him as much as possible...Walker has the ability and the drive to become a helluva player and Pierce is the ideal model for his development IMO...Walker reminds me of a Carmelo Anthony type because of his athleticism, somewhat of a hybrid 3/4 who can shoot well-enough to set up powerful drives and post-up his man...powerful, quick jumper who needs little time to get up and finish strong...doesn't need to gather hardly at all and is immovable once going forward...lacks polish, but not desire to grow as a player...a steal in my book for the mere purchase price of a few hundred K...


You're absolutely right, Walker needs to sponge as much as he can from Paul, and guarding him in practice is the best way to do that. Hell, just watching him go about his business everyday is a great education for Bill. Having a veteran player to learn from is an underrated advantage for a young player (imagine what Antoine could have been had he come to this current team as a rookie, instead of coming to a team whose only veteran presence was Frank Brikowski!) and Bill hit the jackpot coming to the Cs.

As for comparisons, I've always considered Melo to be alot like Pierce, only bigger and longer. For me then, the comparison is between Paul and Bill, since they're of almost equal height. At this point in their respective developments, Paul's long ball was a bit more advanced (he was also a couple years older too), but otherwise they're very similar, especially in how they attack the rim. They're both bulls in the paint, overpowering their defenders off-the-dribble and finishing tough at the rim. And Walker has much greater athleticism and strength at this stage of his career than Paul did at a similar stage. Also, both were suspect ballhandlers coming out of college, and I expect Bill to work on this aspect of his game as he gets more experience. Bill may have better passing instincts than Paul too, though it's hard to tell at this point.

The Cs are one of the best possible situations for Walker to thrive in and it's going to be exciting to see how he turns out. Right now, he could turn out anywhere from a Bonzi Wells type, to maybe a Maggette type, to possibly a Paul Pierce type or better, depending on a million things we can't predict (health being the foremost variable). One thing he does have going for him, which you mentioned, is his attitude. He's a humble kid; he doesn't expect anything to be handed to him, and he's got a great work ethic. That alone makes me think he'll be closer to a Paul Pierce type than a Bonzi Wells type. Walker could be the STEAL of all of Danny's 2nd round steals.
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#31 » by Khoee » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:25 am

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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#32 » by billfromBoston » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:04 am

...Bill hasn't shown himself to be much of a passer or intuitive off-ball playmaker, but one thing he does do well that I love is controlling the ball with one hand and finishing little running/floating shots going to the basket...

Walker has absolute mits and he is a beast physically...he's been criticized for not utilizing more latteral movement in his drives to the basket, prefering to bull straight ahead...but his core strength is off the charts and he has powerful legs, which coupled with his ability to elevate without gathering, should allow him to do great things in the lane if and when he adjusts his attack strategy...

If Walker used more latteral movement in his drives he'll be very difficult to contain when he gets around his primary defender...he's really not very good shooting beyond 15 feet or so because he naturally shoots in front of his face and doesn't get much eleveation on his shot-he's been working on this though and once he shoots above his head, his naturally soft shot has little wasted motion...he's pretty slick making shots off post and baseline isolation though and he shows promise off the dribble, though that needs a lot more work before its a true go-to option...

Overall, I really hope he stays around this year...I wouldn't be surprised at all if he catches some eyes during his rookie season...he's sure to get minutes here and there and being on such a high-caliber team can do nothing but accelerate his growth...
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#33 » by Gomes3PC » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:07 am

First off, Walker IMO would be a terrible fit in the Euro game. So even if he goes over there, I just don't think he'd be a big success there. With their focus on practice over game time though, he would certainly learn a lot.

Second, the euro has been weakening against the dollar of late. In the span of a month, the euro-dollar rate has moved from $1.60 down to $1.48. Doesn't sound like much but that is about an 8% decline in about a month (this as much as anything is contributing to the decline in oil prices, which are denominated in dollars.
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#34 » by sully00 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:49 am

It isn't about the dollar vs the euro, though it doesn't help. It is about artificial salary limitations vs an open market. If Walker was to go to Europe and kill it would be Boston use its MLE to sign Walker? Laughable right? Well if a Euro club offers him 2 mil American that is what Boston would have to do to match the offer.

As for Walker's willingness to go to Europe these were Joe Dumars comments:

Dumars said the organization asked potential second-round picks if they would be willing to play overseas because he didn't anticipate having a roster spot for them next season. Those who answered no, the Pistons scratched off their list. That's one reason they didn't take Bill Walker, though Dumars said 'we liked him a lot."


I think I would lean on what Walker and his reps said to another NBA gm that impacted his draft status, as opposed to reading into comments in an interview. While I am sure that Walker would be willing to go to Europe to chase his dream why would he allow Boston or any other team to keep his rights? He will go to camp and make the team or get waived and see if he can catch on with one of the other 29 teams before he goes overseas, why wouldn't he?
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#35 » by sam_I_am » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:14 pm

sully00 wrote:Actually Walker is a 2nd round pick so he is not on any kind of rookie scale.


Except that in every practical way he is. Second round picks get a salary well below first round picks and usually get 2-3 year deals. After that they become restricted free agents and if they are very good can get amazing offers. So if you can delay that process by a year it would help.

It is not great shake either way. It is just that if he misses this year and then breaks out next year it would be better if we had him for 1 more year of his rookie pact rather than have him be a RFA.
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Re: If we let Bill Walker goto Europe, we might not get him back 

Post#36 » by sully00 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:52 pm

But Sam if he has already bit the bullet to go overseas he no longer has to simply accept the league minimum to play in the NBA.

2nd round picks frequently are signed to the league minimum and a team option in some cases a little more to add a 3rd year as we have seen Ainge do with MLE money.

There has been a growing problem with sending players overseas or leaving them there to develop. They are making more money and frequently paying less taxes than they would if they played in the states. If they play well then the Euro teams are willing to make multi year offers that dwarf non guaranteed NBA minimums. Worse than that is the crappy restricted FA situation, which gives teams almost zero motivation to make market offers to RFA's. The same teams then turn around and offer those same market deals to players who rights they have overseas against the leverage that the will sign long term deals with no NBA buy out in them.

Walker or any other 2nd rounder is silly to go overseas and allow an NBA team to keep his rights unless he plans to actually stay in Europe and use that to help leverage a better contract there. Walker would be far better served to try and make the team, get waived and try and catch on somewhere else, failing that then go overseas. Then he is at least an unrestricted FA next season and can sign with any of the teams in the league.

Ukic just signed for 3 years 4 mil, Maceo Baston signed for the LLE, Scola and Calderon had signed for 3 years for 9 and 7 mil respectively. Juan Calos Navorro signed for 550,000 with no option so he got a 150 grand over the minimum and was a RFA this season who bolted back to Europe.

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