Next on the Agenda... Mike Bibby?

Harry10 · Post #1 » by **Harry10** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:04 am

Hawks just signed Hunter, so West and/or Richardson will fill out the 11th and 12th spot.... nothing really significant there.

so really the next thing to look into is Mike Bibby.

all of Bibby's trade value comes from his expirering contract, so should the Hawks play him for half a year and then trade him? and if so, for who?

or Hawks could keep Bibby all year and let his contract expirer and let him walk (or resign him for alot LESS). and use the cap space to sign a free agent? but who?

.... or use the cap space to give Marvin a pay raise?

CWell · Post #2 » by **CWell** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:18 am

trade him

evildallas · Post #3 » by **evildallas** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:20 am

I really, really disagree with Bibby being next. I expect Bibby to be excellent this year because it is a contract year, but I would not be trying to ink him long term right now. He's making 15M this season. You don't extend him at this time because a) what price do you agree upon? and b) you lose that contract year boost and c) you lose the expiring contract chip in case things go poorly this season and d) given his age what's the proper length of contract to agree to. Next summer you can make an offer if you are so inclined that you think is fair in terms of money and length, but Bibby has to experience the open market to properly correct his salary level expectations. He's 30 years old already, and has been on the decline for several years. It might make sense to sign him for 1 or 2 more years, but like I said he has to be made to realize that his price tag should go down. BTW, if someone else is willing to pay him more or longer than you, be smart and let him walk.

BTW, if you lose Bibby, I think you turn to Acie Law and sign an affordable backup using the MLE. Maybe Jarrett Jack.

I feel the guy they should consider dealing with next is Marvin in hopes of locking him in around 10M per season. It's risky in that he might not continue to improve during the season, but you have to think he will develop. I am realistic that you probably can't get him locked up, but if you can great.

Harry10 · Post #4 » by **Harry10** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:59 am

evildallas wrote:I really, really disagree with Bibby being next. I expect Bibby to be excellent this year because it is a contract year, but I would not be trying to ink him long term right now. He's making 15M this season. You don't extend him at this time because a) what price do you agree upon? and b) you lose that contract year boost and c) you lose the expiring contract chip in case things go poorly this season and d) given his age what's the proper length of contract to agree to. Next summer you can make an offer if you are so inclined that you think is fair in terms of money and length, but Bibby has to experience the open market to properly correct his salary level expectations. He's 30 years old already, and has been on the decline for several years. It might make sense to sign him for 1 or 2 more years, but like I said he has to be made to realize that his price tag should go down. BTW, if someone else is willing to pay him more or longer than you, be smart and let him walk.

BTW, if you lose Bibby, I think you turn to Acie Law and sign an affordable backup using the MLE. Maybe Jarrett Jack.

I feel the guy they should consider dealing with next is Marvin in hopes of locking him in around 10M per season. It's risky in that he might not continue to improve during the season, but you have to think he will develop. I am realistic that you probably can't get him locked up, but if you can great.

i think you totally missed the point or didn't read the initial post.

evildallas · Post #5 » by **evildallas** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:26 pm

You're right, I'm sorry. I missed the point. I just reread it and my answer is to play it out (at least until the trade deadline). Expect Mike Bibby to have an excellent season. If that translates into wins then keep him the entire season, but don't get fooled into overpaying him as he's 31 at the end of the year.

If the team isn't doing well in the standings you definitely shop with the thought of adding talent from a team looking to drop salary. The problem is with such a large contract you want to be careful that what you acquire fits into what you are building because the size of the deal will affect other moves you can make. I doubt there is a deal at the trade deadline that makes long term sense though.

mattlanta · Post #6 » by **mattlanta** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:47 pm

Just because we signed Hunter doesn't mean he's going to make the regular season team. It's just training camp roster, and teams can hold up to 18 or 19 players on that roster.

td00 · Post #7 » by **td00** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:45 am

Bibby's value to this team can be determined early with the tough schedule that we face. I truly would not know what his value was and he would have to take a major pay cut to stay on this roster.
Come this time next year, between Bibby and Marvin, the success of this team will determine who stays around as a $10M/year player. Putting those 2 under those numbers is highly unlikely seeing how tough it is for the ASG to determine market value for its own players.
There are several young point guards around the league who make a small fraction of Bibby's salary that I would take a chance with before extending his contract.

killbuckner · Post #8 » by **killbuckner** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:24 am

Well- as of now I don't think that the hawks are a playoff team so I'd say the most likely scenario is trading him at the deadline for an expiring contract plus something small. I don't think that anyone would give up a first rounder for 2 months of Bibby but maybe they can get some sort of young player that needs a change of scenery.

Harry10 · Post #9 » by **Harry10** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:35 am

killbuckner wrote:Well- as of now I don't think that the hawks are a playoff team so I'd say the most likely scenario is trading him at the deadline for an expiring contract plus something small. I don't think that anyone would give up a first rounder for 2 months of Bibby but maybe they can get some sort of young player that needs a change of scenery.

why would a team trade an expiring contract for Bibby's expiring contract? unless Bibby has a good half season.

Post #10 » by **HMFFL** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:50 am

Looks like Mike Bibby is going to have the most pressure on him even if he doesn't know it. I expect many of you to have Mike under a microscope this year and to note ever flaw he makes. I hope it doesn't happen that way, but it's already started, and I suppose it didn't help Mike having such a bad playoff series against Boston. I believe this team needs Mike to make a true run at the 8th and final playoff spot.

killbuckner · Post #11 » by **killbuckner** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:05 am

The Hawks traded for Bibby to try and make a push in the playoffs. If the Hawks aren't going to make the playoffs then another team should value him more. You compare him to someone like Raef Lafrentz who isn't a contributor on the court. Bibby would have more value than Raef at the deadline, but its not clear how much more value. But if the Hawks don't care about the last 2 months of the season then they may be able to flip Bibby for an asset that could help more in future seasons.

jagstang76 · Post #12 » by **jagstang76** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:21 pm

I think it's much more simple than what some of you are making it. If Bibby is playing well and we're in a position to make the playoffs, don't trade him as it makes more sense to keep things together. If he's struggling AND Law and Speedy are playing well, by all means trade him for some help in other areas. All this is contingent upon injuries and performance in other parts of the team. For example, let's say Marvin struggles or gets hurt, we will pretty much have to trade Bibby to fill that gap. It will make sense to keep Bibby around as long as possible because his expiring contract help us a ton to resign Marvin. An ideal trade deadline deal (if we were to make one) might be sending him to a team like Memphis where they have tons of cap room, pick up a MLE type player in return to even things out, and we end up with a decent player and the cap room to resign Marvin.

Rod700 · Post #13 » by **Rod700** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:43 pm

td00 wrote:Bibby's value to this team can be determined early with the tough schedule that we face. I truly would not know what his value was and he would have to take a major pay cut to stay on this roster.
Come this time next year, between Bibby and Marvin, the success of this team will determine who stays around as a $10M/year player. Putting those 2 under those numbers is highly unlikely seeing how tough it is for the ASG to determine market value for its own players.
There are several young point guards around the league who make a small fraction of Bibby's salary that I would take a chance with before extending his contract.

If I'm reading this correctly, you are saying that neither Marv nor Bibby is a 10 mil a year player and I agree. This season will determine their worth, and while Marv who has bulked up to 245 and has been practicing 3's may have a break out year, I don't think Bibby could be worth more than 6.5 over two or three years at the most. I hope we don't overpay him out of desperation to maintain a solid pg. We either need to develop Law with playing time this year or lock up a solid point via trade.

D21 · Post #14 » by **D21** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:07 pm

jagstang76 wrote:...keep Bibby around as long as possible because his expiring contract help us a ton to resign Marvin. An ideal trade deadline deal (if we were to make one) might be sending him to a team like Memphis where they have tons of cap room, pick up a MLE type player in return to even things out, and we end up with a decent player and the cap room to resign Marvin.

We don't need cap room to re-sign Marvin. He's already getting 5.6M$, so even if start at 10M$, it's only 4.5M more than now, and Bibby if he stays, will certainly get less than 10.5M (he gets 15M this season).

If we think like that (keeping expiring contracts to get cap room), it will not improve the team. We have to re-sign him if he plays well this season and help team twin at least 41W and make the playoffs, or trade him (or sing-&-trade next summer). Let him go is the worst thing to do, except if you're think cheap like that (I thought only ASG can do it)

td00 · Post #15 » by **td00** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:44 pm

I know we talk about Bibby being a valued point guard, but if you look at these projections heading into last season, you quite possibly see Bibby even lower at this point.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/ ... =1&start=0

He isn't ranked near what our PG should be ranked to get us to the playoffs. That salary number is ugly should he need to be resigned. How much the ASG would pay him would probably be an embarrassment for them to discuss with him. Right now, he is the 17th highest paid player in the league.

After reading that link, I have less faith in Bibby being here long term than anyone on this roster save Charles. He will have to take a huge paycut.
I put together a list of the top PGs and their salary and since it is a salary driven league, it will be a salary driven decision. I don't see Bibby getting more than $6M/year (around what Duhon, the Seattle PGs and definitely less than Devin Harris). That would be hard to present to him after this season, especially if the team is successful. He would rank 4th on our salary structure, just above Charles, and ahead of Al. So his ego would take a major hit should he accept an ASG offer.

D21 · Post #16 » by **D21** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:00 pm

Contender will offer him MLE contract max. There is no need to offer 10M to be higher, so if he really want a championship, he could walk, but if he's part of ATL improving and gets minutes here, he could take a huge paycut as long as he gets a bit more than what the other can offer him, and if he like this team.

And he knows his contract was signed long years ago. It was what he got for his prime, now it's time for paycut

Lots of people don't see the fact that is contract is old, and look at his performance as the PG of 37W team. But Bibby, while injured, brought ATL at about .500 and 3-4 against the champs.
It's not like if there was no impact on the team once we get him, and a contract being signed 2 years ago. He already got his money, and a made impact on the team. Give him some weeks to show his value while playing healthy with a team his knows more.

td00 · Post #17 » by **td00** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:35 pm

Tough call because there has to be a way to improve that position if we currently see him ranked in the 20s in PG efficiency.
IMO, he would best serve us as a rental for this year only and then know whether Acie could do the job going forward. Then we could potentially find a vet backup, like Pargo (if we could wrap him up this year, then the better).
I would be happy with that trio going into the season, but is Pargo wanting to come to a place and fight for minutes with our interior weaknesses?

Rod700 · Post #18 » by **Rod700** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:55 pm

D21 wrote:And he knows his contract was signed long years ago. It was what he got for his prime, now it's time for paycut

Yeah. I think everyone, including Bibby knows he isn't worth what he is earning right now. Signing him for significantly less shouldn't be a problem (if that's what we want to do), unless he just wants to play for cheap to make a run at a title with a contender. If Bibby plays well this year, I still don't see him being worth more than 6.5 or so a year, given his age.

D21 · Post #19 » by **D21** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:45 pm

Even if I prefer Bibby staying with the team at least until February ad see how it turns, I was searching yesterday for some Bibby trade that could make some sense this summer, and I was trying to find a three way trade where Bibby would go to CLE, with ATL mainly getting a sign-&-traded Delonte West and some other piece...
and funny to see right now that they say on Hoopshype there is a three-way trade in work with Cleveland sending West in a sign-&-trade, but it would not be for Bibby but for Mo Williams.

killbuckner · Post #20 » by **killbuckner** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:02 pm

I still say that the Hawks should be looking to try and send Bibby to Denver as part of an Iverson trade. Would Iverson and Hunter for Bibby, Zaza, Acie and the Hawks 09 pick get it done? After Denver dumped Camby that has to put them in rebuilding mode. This would save Denver an awful lot of money this season and next season as well since they dump Hunter. I'd trade Marvin there in a heartbeat but I don't see why Denver would want him. And I think Iverson would be a great fit next to Joe Johnson.