Controversial Wolves Opinion Thread!

[shrink]

I was tempted to call this the "I'm right and everyone else is wrong!" thread, but I think this will be fun.

Here's the rules:

Pick a Wolves opinion that you have that disagrees with the majority. State it flat out, and then post your supporting evidence.

Most of us will probably be proven wrong, but I think it'll be interesting to see how we differ. I'll give an example in my next post, but I have to put it together first, but I hope we can get a number of different opinions going.

[shrink]

Losing Draft Picks from the Joe Smith debacle was not really that damaging.

Many experts and fans referred to David Stern's decision to penalize the wolves for their under-the-table Joe Smith deal as a "Death Penalty," directing the forfeiture of Minnesota's own first-round draft picks in the 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2005 NBA Drafts; fining the team $3.5 mil, and voiding the team's 2000-2001 contract with Joe Smith.

Why I think the damage is being overstated:

1. The NBA agreed to restore the 2003 pick after Kevin McHale agreed to take a six month absense from the team in 2000.

[I didn't know this before, and it makes me suspicious about Taylor's statements that it was all his fault, and McHale was just falling on the sword. Is this really the NBA's perception, after they did the investigation. My guess is they both knew, and they didn't dare punish Taylor, the wolves owner, so McHale took the punishment. Still, the NBA clearly rewarded the wolves for punishing McHale, (maybe as an example?) but it was something they wanted. We're all just guessing though, and probably will never know the whole story].

The NBA restored the 2005 pick as well, "because of the wolves conduct after the Smith matter"

2. None of these lost picks were in the lottery. Garnett's production during these times had the Wolves being reasonably successful in the regular season:

2001 Wolves 47-35. Their pick would have been #18 or -#19 Pick #18 .. Jason Collins (surprise!). Pick #19 .. Zach Randolph.

2002 Wolves 50-32 Their pick would have been #24 or #25 .. Nenad Krstic or Frank Williams

2004 Wolves 58-24 Their pick would have been #29 .. David Harrison

If we had selected the right ones of these players, they may have made us a little better, but not a huge improvement. Collins, Frank Williams, and David Harrison would not have greatly impacted the team, Krstic was promising and so was Zach. I suppose its possible McHale would have plucked someone better from deeper in the draft, but the info I posted kind of gives you a valuation for these picks.

3. Owner Glen Taylor compensated for not having a draft pick by going over the lux in an attempt to win a championship. Better talent was brought in through free agency than we would have acquired in the draft, and this also decreased the value of the lost 2004 pick.

4. Personally, even with these picks, I do not think the fans would have accepted a rebuilding period while we had Garnett on the team during these years, so the rookies would not have had a lot of floortime to make an impact. They could have been used in trade for veterans, but KG's salary limited what we could bring in (except for the final year when Taylor went over the lux), and I'm not sure the players involved had terrific trade value anyway.

In conclusion, I think people overstate the impact of Stern's "Death Penalty" and it shouldn't be used as an excuse for poor play-off performance after some pretty successful seasons.

[Worm Guts]

4. Personally, even with these picks, I do not think the fans would have accepted a rebuilding period while we had Garnett on the team during these years, so the rookies would not have had a lot of floortime to make an impact. They could have been used in trade for veterans, but KG's salary limited what we could bring in (except for the final year when Taylor went over the lux), and I'm not sure the players involved had terrific trade value anyway.

In conclusion, I think people overstate the impact of Stern's "Death Penalty" and it shouldn't be used as an excuse for poor play-off performance after some pretty successful seasons

You have some decent points but I've got a problem with #4. You don't have to rebuild to give young players playing time. Young players get better overtime and develop into role players or better. The Spurs were already contenders when they drafted Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli.

On top of that, young players give you hope. One of the reasons the Wolves gave out bad contracts to Hudson and Hassell is because they didn't have any young players who could step up and fill their spots. I think not having any draft picks made it tough to turn things around once the Cassell-Sprewell thing blew up.

[deeney0]

Rashad McCants sucks.

I'll edit this with supporting arguments later.

[4ho5ive]

Corey Brewer was not the right decision for this team with or without Garnett here. Im at work so i dont have my files on hand but i have written aticles about this before.

[C.lupus]

re: shrink's post.

You have some decent points but I've got a problem with #4. You don't have to rebuild to give young players playing time. Young players get better overtime and develop into role players or better. The Spurs were already contenders when they drafted Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli.

On top of that, young players give you hope. One of the reasons the Wolves gave out bad contracts to Hudson and Hassell is because they didn't have any young players who could step up and fill their spots. I think not having any draft picks made it tough to turn things around once the Cassell-Sprewell thing blew up.

I agree with Worm Guts here. Having a good balance of vets and youth is always the way to go, IMO. I would also point out that those lost picks could have been packaged together or with another player to move up in the draft or trade for an impact player. We are seeing this year the value of having extra picks - it gives the franchise much more flexibility.

That said, I agree that losing those picks was not devastating, except to our pride.


I'll try to come up with something controversial but it might take me a couple days (have to suppress my inner-Norwegian).

[shrink]

Rashad McCants sucks.

I'll edit this with supporting arguments later.

Corey Brewer was not the right decision for this team with or without Garnett here. Im at work so i dont have my files on hand but i have written aticles about this before.

This is going to be fun.

[Klomp]

Our jerseys are not that bad.

First off, we only saw half of the jerseys, and they weren't exactly modeled by the most physically attractive player.

[Wingman]

Rashad McCants is way better than Ryan Gomes.

[collin_k41]

Corey Brewer was not the right decision for this team with or without Garnett here. Im at work so i dont have my files on hand but i have written aticles about this before.

I wanted sooo bad to get Jeff Green on draft night. I don't get how they said he was one of the most NBA ready players when he was lightyears from it.

[stop-n-pop]

I agree with Shrink's take that the lost draft picks didn't hurt this team as much as it has been made out and add that the selection of Corey Brewer is, relative to position taken, the worst pick in Wolves history.

1- The pick was made before the KG trade and it further underscores the problems that the delay in making the move caused for this team. By not making the move before the draft, they put off development for yet another draft.

2- There were numerous red flags at the time and in real time about Brewer's game.

3- Say what you will about individual workouts but the team brought Brewer in with Al Thornton, Thaddeus Young and Julian Wright and by all accounts was absolutely worked. Even if you agree that they needed to bring in a guy that could man the 3, they chose the wrong droid.

4- He wasn't even the right Gator.

I think that Brewer will eventually work himself into a serviceable NBA player. However, in terms of team needs and abilities, his selection didn't make sense within the scope of available players (even in real time), and with the Wolves pre and post KG rosters. If the trade was made before the draft, a player like Noah becomes the obvious target. Even without the trade being made early, finding a young front court player that could contribute a bit earlier (Thornton) or was a bit more physically NBA ready (Young) was the right choice. At least they didn't get stuck with Green. The poor nature of the selection was further highlighted when they picked up Carney for essentially nothing.

2nd argument: McCants is a better player than Foye; younger, more NBA experience, and with a more developed game.

[Shrunk]

At times people on this board sound a bit harsh when it comes to white NBA players. Mark Madsen is not the worst player in the NBA. Kevin Love is not a brick with limbs, he has pretty good athletic ability.

[karch34]

I'll argue against Shrink's point first about the picks. After Marbury and Szerbiak there was never a concerted effort to get young players and let them grow with KG. Instead too many overpriced average to below average players were used to fill out the roster.

Players of note that could've been drafted in
2001:
Difference makers: Gerald Wallace, Dalembert, Arenas, Tony Parker
Contributors: Haywood, Tinsley, Okur
2002:
Difference makers: Boozer
Contributors: Kristic, Dickau
2004:
Contributors: Chris Duhon, Trevor Ariza, Anderson Varejao


My controversial statment: Wally Szerbiak was the correct pick in the draft.
1. We had Brandon so there was no need for Andre Miller
2. An outside shooter to take the pressure off KG inside was more important than than a slasher like Magette.
3. Shawn Marion was unproven and risky, Szerbiak was proven and coming off a great tournament

[casey]

Rashad McCants sucks.

No, this thread is for "controversial" opinions, not absolute facts.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Kevin Love will make EVERYONE around him better. Teammates will play to max potential, coach will design unstoppable plays, cheerleaders will unite the crowd with peppiness and permanent smiles, mop boys and girls with pounce on sweat puddles with fervor, photographers will capture the moment, and beer vendors will keep us all intoxicated on 3.2 beer

[Wingman]

Mark Madsen is not the worst player in the NBA.

Who is worse? Mark Madsen is so out of place in the NBA its comical.

[Worm Guts]

My controversial statment: Wally Szerbiak was the correct pick in the draft.
1. We had Brandon so there was no need for Andre Miller
2. An outside shooter to take the pressure off KG inside was more important than than a slasher like Magette.
3. Shawn Marion was unproven and risky, Szerbiak was proven and coming off a great tournament

Richard Hamilton?

[TrentTuckerForever]

Rashad McCants sucks.

No, this thread is for "controversial" opinions, not absolute facts.

+1

[TrentTuckerForever]

I have two controversial opinions:

1) When all is said and done, Al Jefferson will be remembered as a better Timberwolf than Kevin Garnett. While KG will always be the "first love" of fans of this franchise, Jefferson, as a true low-post player, will lead the Wolves to more consistent success than KG ever did.

For all his great points, Garnett needs to be matched with very specific talent to succeed - the one great Timberwolves team (2004) had Sprewell and Cassell next to KG, slashing scorers who could shoot enough to keep opponents honest and also defend their positions. Ray Allen and Paul Pierce also fit that mold, but how difficult is it (both from a salary standpoint and in terms of fit) to match up three players in this way, especially considering KG's historic lack of production in the clutch?

Jefferson's ceiling is more like Tim Duncan's - while he isn't yet the defender that Duncan is, he's only 23 years old and his low post game will match up with more different types of players - Duncan won rings next to David Robinson/Sean Elliot as well as Parker/Ginobli. If the Wolves' front office can put some players around him, Jefferson will lead the Wolves to more wins and playoff success.

This isn't a "KG sucks" argument at all, just an opinion that Jefferson is better positioned to lead this team to greatness than KG ever was.

2) Shrink is actually Kevin McHale. No evidence necessary there - I think it's self-evident.

[deeney0]

Rashad McCants sucks.

I'll edit this with supporting arguments later.

Alright, gents, here we go. Mostly statistical, using the previous season’s stats.

Let’s start with efficiency. Shad is inefficient. EFF of 11.2, EFFper48 of 19.94. The former is 143rd in the NBA, the latter 208th in the NBA. In one or both categories, he trails players such as Kirk Snyder, Kyle Lowry, Matt Bonner, Anthony Carter, Sasha Vujacic, CJ Miles, Brent Barry, Dorrell Wright, Ben Gordon, Sam Cassell, Coby Karl… I could go on and on. He trails Randy Foye, too, but that’s really not the point of this.

Shad is inefficient because the only positive he brings to the court is scoring. He doesn’t pass well, he doesn’t rebound well. 2.7 RPG, 2.2 APG. A good starting SG has to produce more than that.

Rebounds: Mike Miller? 6.7 RPG. Kobe Bryant? 6.3. Jason Richardson, Tracy McGrady, Monta Ellis. All over 5. Brandon Roy, Manu Ginobili, Bonzi Wells, Joe Johnson, Kevin Martin, Michael Redd, Dwayne Wade, Anthony Parker. All over 4.

Assists: Dwayne Wade, 6.9. Brandon Roy, Tracy McGrady, Joe Johnson, Kobe Bryant, Vince Carter, Jamal Crawford over 5. Tons of non-true-PG guards ahead of 3.5, including Mike Miller, Randy Foye, and Marko Jaric.

It’s not as if Shad isn’t passing though. 2.3 TO per game. That’s 43rd in the NBA. TOper48, he’s at 4.1, 8th in the NBA. Ahead of him? Wade, Nash, Kidd, Williams, Anthony, Ginobili, Josh Smith, and Dwight Howard. Those guys make up for their TOs WAY, WAY, WAY more than Shaddy does. Except for Howard, they’ve all got higher A/TO. Except for Howard, Williams, and Nash, they’ve all got higher STL/TO. They’re all a ton more efficient.

It’s not only the turnovers that hurt, though. 3.1 PF per game is second among guards in the league only to Vince Carter, whose 3.2 come in 12 more minutes per game. Shad’s 5.6 PFper48 is also second, this time to Tony Allen’s 5.9. Royal Ivy and Nick Young are the only other guards over 5. Rashad commits an outrageously unacceptable amount of fouls. At one point early last season, he trailed only Shaq in 6 PF games.

I’m willing to go so far as to say McCants is one of the 10 best scoring guards in the NBA. His shot is simply beautiful. When he wants to, he can put it on the floor and take it to the basket. He’s a dynamic scorer. But a team can’t win if they play a guard like McCants as anything more than a 6th man, and maybe even not that. Those mistakes add up considerably.