Phelps or Bolt

[TheGlyde]

I've represented my country in Track & Field, so you'd think I'd be biased, yet I say Phelps.

If Bolt takes MJ's 200m WR though, it becomes a tougher choice.

Edit:
after reading tracey_nice's last post on page 12, I would say that I believe at this point Phelps to be the 'greater' athlete... but for most impressive performance... for me as a track & field athlete, im still shocked and stunned by what Bolt did, Phelps impressed me, but he didn't shock or stun me.

[JWizmentality]

How is 10 seconds of running the most exciting competition in the Olympics? And NBC probably didn't air this live because running isn't popular in the USA. I'm pretty sure 45% of people here don't know who Tyson Gay is.

Wow dude, you need to get out more. The world doesn't revolve around the US.

[JWizmentality]

Give Bolt the oppurtunity to run in 8 different races and we can talk.

I mentioned this before, but didn't think anyone would bring it up so specifically: Bolt could have run the 400, he could have run 100 hurdles, he could have done long jump, he didn't. Comparing a swimmer favorably to a runner simply based on number of medals is indeed foolish, but Phelps is maximizing what his sport has to offer, Bolt is not. The only argument for Bolt is that his sport, his event, are so important that with his flash they overwhelm Phelps superior overall mastery of his sport.

Swimming is nowhere near as taxing as running. There's no track athlete in the world that does that and dominates each event. Mastery of his sport? The frikkin butterfly?? I think swimming is a joke. Why not add the doggie paddle? That would be like the 100m be divided into the 100m backwards, 100m walk, 100m high knees etc.

[fame]

I say Bolt

It took Phelps 14 years of hardcore training to dominate certain events and get where he is.

It took Bolt 2 years to shatter the world record in 100 meters, while not ever trying to.

Plus the 100 meter sprint is far more exciting than any swimming event. There are just way way too many different types of strokes and types of events in swimming. I looked at the ratings for certain events, and the 100m got more ratings than any swimming that Phelps wasn't a part of...So the sport is basicly him right now.

[dougthonus]

Oh trust me, as soon as they come up with a new swim suit and better designed pools, Phelp's record will be broken.

Better suits and pool technology will not get someone else to win 15 gold medals. It will not allow someone else to get 9 gold medals in one Olympics. It will not allow someone else to get 10 gold medals in individual events (no team relays). Phelps has records related to medal count which may never be broken in my life time.

Phelps swim times will easily be broken in my lifetime, just like Bolts will be. However, Phelps has other records that won't be, because the scope of his achievement is so great.

[tracey_nice]

Does anyone know at top speed how fast was Bolt going? I remember Baily had the world record for top speed at something like 27mph IIRC; I think Bolt must of broken that but by how much?

[JWizmentality]

Oh trust me, as soon as they come up with a new swim suit and better designed pools, Phelp's record will be broken.

Better suits and pool technology will not get someone else to win 15 gold medals. It will not allow someone else to get 9 gold medals in one Olympics. It will not allow someone else to get 10 gold medals in individual events (no team relays). Phelps has records related to medal count which may never be broken in my life time.

Phelps swim times will easily be broken in my lifetime, just like Bolts will be. However, Phelps has other records that won't be, because the scope of his achievement is so great.

True, but in the end what it boils down to is Bolt is far bigger globally and will be more revered in Olympic history.

[dougthonus]

Phelps is more versatile, partially due to the fact swimming allows it. There is no 100m hopping or backward running events otherwise I suspect Bolt may win as well. Breaking WR in that swimming pool should be taken at a discount. It is like nothing this past week due the new swim suit and the fast swimming pool.

Get back to me when Bolt wins the gold in:
100m
200m
400m
4x100 relay
4x200 relay
4x400 relay
110 hurdles
400 hurdles
long jump
triple jump

Since Phelps swims at distances between 100 and 400 meters, relays and individuals, and you think Bolt should be able to win the hopping contest hurdles and jumps are fair game. Looks like he's got plenty of events to go after. What is it too hard to train all the different muscles? Too difficult to keep up the endurance for all those events in one Olympics? Too difficult to beat a specialist in one of those events while being great in all of them?

[dougthonus]

True, but in the end what it boils down to is Bolt is far bigger globally and will be more revered in Olympic history.

I doubt it, but I don't speak for the world and neither do you.

I don't revere Michael Johnson more than Phelps (not even remotely close), and Johnson has done more than Bolt so far (not that Bolt couldn't easily change that). I think Carl Lewis and Phelps are on the same page and the debate is open and Bolt isn't even in Lewis's stratosphere yet. Those are just American vs American track vs swimming guys looking just at their accomplishments so there should be no bias on my part there.

Bolt needs to do a lot more to live up to the premier T&F athletes before he's even mentioned in the same category as Phelps IMO.

Maybe I'm just crazy for not seeing the hype in the 100m sprint. I just don't really care about the event more so than any other event. Bolt's performance in that event was the greatest performance ever, but the event itself has no special meaning to me, and that remained true even when American's were winning (which has been the case more times than not).

I'm amused by this feeling that T&F is some bad ass sport while Swimming is this second tier thing. Both are like the ugly red headed step children of sports that we only follow once every four years.

[TheGlyde]

Phelps is more versatile, partially due to the fact swimming allows it. There is no 100m hopping or backward running events otherwise I suspect Bolt may win as well. Breaking WR in that swimming pool should be taken at a discount. It is like nothing this past week due the new swim suit and the fast swimming pool.

Get back to me when Bolt wins the gold in:
100m
200m
400m
4x100 relay
4x200 relay
4x400 relay
110 hurdles
400 hurdles
long jump
triple jump

Since Phelps swims at distances between 100 and 400 meters, relays and individuals, and you think Bolt should be able to win the hopping contest hurdles and jumps are fair game. Looks like he's got plenty of events to go after. What is it too hard to train all the different muscles? Too difficult to keep up the endurance for all those events in one Olympics? Too difficult to beat a specialist in one of those events while being great in all of them?

Newsflash, they aren't the same sport, and simply not comparable in such a fashion.

Its like saying Phelps is better than Michael Jordan because Jordan didn't lead the league in pts, rebs, asts, steals, blocks, FG%, FT% and 3P% in the one season.

They are not comparable.

What phelps did was more impressive than what Bolt did, IMO, but the argument you are using doesn't hold water, pun intended.

[tracey_nice]

True, but in the end what it boils down to is Bolt is far bigger globally and will be more revered in Olympic history.

I doubt it, but I don't speak for the world and neither do you.

I don't revere Michael Johnson more than Phelps (not even remotely close), and Johnson has done more than Bolt so far (not that Bolt couldn't easily change that). I think Carl Lewis and Phelps are on the same page and the debate is open and Bolt isn't even in Lewis's stratosphere yet. Those are just American vs American track vs swimming guys looking just at their accomplishments so there should be no bias on my part there.

Bolt needs to do a lot more to live up to the premier T&F athletes before he's even mentioned in the same category as Phelps IMO.

Maybe I'm just crazy for not seeing the hype in the 100m sprint. I just don't really care about the event more so than any other event. Bolt's performance in that event was the greatest performance ever, but the event itself has no special meaning to me, and that remained true even when American's were winning (which has been the case more times than not).

I'm amused by this feeling that T&F is some bad ass sport while Swimming is this second tier thing. Both are like the ugly red headed step children of sports that we only follow once every four years.

But most people do, thats why you and others opinions differ regarding this matter.

And I really don't know how you don't see the hype in the 100m, think about it, it determines the faster man in the WORLD, the WORLD.

[Rasho Brezec]

I don't think relay races can really be considered as arguments anyhow because not everything depends on either Phelps or Bolt. They both can dominate when it's their turn, but they can't help it if the other three athletes suck.

[5DOM]

If Bolt was American, he would be more popular than the Batman.
If Phelps was Jamaican, he wouldnt even win 2 team relays.

[fame]

Oh trust me, as soon as they come up with a new swim suit and better designed pools, Phelp's record will be broken.

Better suits and pool technology will not get someone else to win 15 gold medals. It will not allow someone else to get 9 gold medals in one Olympics. It will not allow someone else to get 10 gold medals in individual events (no team relays). Phelps has records related to medal count which may never be broken in my life time.

Phelps swim times will easily be broken in my lifetime, just like Bolts will be. However, Phelps has other records that won't be, because the scope of his achievement is so great.

Ok then tell me how this happened?

In the Beijing Olympics, 20 swimming world records have been broken. While 18 swimming world records have been broken in the past 2 Olympics combined.

The new suits and pool technology makes a difference.

[dougthonus]

Newsflash, they aren't the same sport, and simply not comparable in such a fashion.

So the 100m 200m 400m 4x100 4x200 and 4x400 are so different that they aren't considered the same sport.

Yet the 100m butterfly and 400m individual medley in swimming ARE close enough to be considered the same sport?

[dougthonus]

Ok then tell me how this happened?

In the Beijing Olympics, 20 swimming world records have been broken. While 18 swimming world records have been broken in the past 2 Olympics combined.

The new suits and pool technology makes a difference.

I'm not sure how to reply to this given that you completely failed to read or comprehend what I said the first time.

You don't win 8 gold medals because of new swim suit technology that everyone in the pool has.

I'm not talking about speed records, I'm talking about medal count records and dominance of the sport type records. Everyone had the suit. If everyone takes off the suit then Phelps probably wins by more because he has a greater natural ability than everyone else and the slower the other conditions the greater role natural ability plays.

[TheGlyde]

There is no 4x200m relay in Track & Field for starters, which says to me you really know little about the sport and the differences involved in even trying to compete in the events at a world level, let alone medal.

But, what I am saying is that Swimming and Track & Field are not the same and can not be compared the way you are trying to compare them.

[dougthonus]

If Bolt was American, he would be more popular than the Batman.
If Phelps was Jamaican, he wouldnt even win 2 team relays.

If Bolt was American, he'd surely be more popular with Americans. If Phelps was Jamaican he'd clearly be less popular with Americans.

However, gauging the accomplishments of the two, I wouldn't all of a sudden feel that Phelps was crap and Bolt was great. Phelps accomplishments are just far greater.

Roger Federer isn't American, but I'm captivated watching him play and think he's probably the greatest tennis player of all time even though the other couple guys I could compare him to are Agassi and Sampras who are American. Watching greatness is something that all sports fans appreciate regardless of the sport. I appreciate Bolt's greatness and consider his 100m win the most impressive single event win in the Olympics. I just don't consider that one win to be greater than Phelps achievements overall (or particularly close).

[dougthonus]

There is no 4x200m relay in Track & Field for starters, which says to me you really know little about the sport and the differences involved in even trying to compete in the events at a world level, let alone medal.

I don't claim to be a T&F expert nor a swimming one. Hence I referred to both as the bastard red headed step children of real sports that we only care about once every four years. I don't care about swimming in general nor track. I actually find both Bolt and Phelps extraordinarily intriguing because of the greatness involved. I like to watch greatness.

But, what I am saying is that Swimming and Track & Field are not the same and can not be compared the way you are trying to compare them.

People have said that if there was 100m hopping and 100m running backwards that Bolt could have lots of medals. There ARE similar types of events using the same muscle groups, but you can't win them all without specializing as a general case.

Swimming has specialists too, and the fact that Phelps has been able to beat all the specialists is something I think many don't seem to appreciate. My point is that Phelps has 5 more Gold medals than the next greatest swimmer. He's got 55% more golds than the next closest swimmer (or athlete of any genre including 2 t&F guys and one gymnast).

[TheGlyde]

There is no 4x200m relay in Track & Field for starters, which says to me you really know little about the sport and the differences involved in even trying to compete in the events at a world level, let alone medal.

But, what I am saying is that Swimming and Track & Field are not the same and can not be compared the way you are trying to compare them.

People have said that if there was 100m hopping and 100m running backwards that Bolt could have lots of medals. There ARE similar types of events using the same muscle groups, but you can't win them all without specializing as a general case. Swimming has specialists too, and the fact that Phelps has been able to beat all the specialists is something I think many don't seem to appreciate.

I appreciate it completely.

He is the greatest swimmer in Olympic history.

Comparing across sports is difficult at the best of times, Bolt can't hold Phelps jock right now as far as I'm concerned, but Carl Lewis is a completely different story.