Michael Phelps, greatest Olympian ever?

[5DOM]

Heres a better question, why do Americans tend to put down any sporting achievement that hasn't been produced by someone of their nationality? It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen often.

If Usain Bolt were American, or if Tyson Gay had just performed the feat this debate would be a lot closer than it is right now...

I don't see anyone putting down Bolt. I think his 100m race is singularly more impressive than any single race Phelps did. I just don't think 1 event vs 8 golds is more impressive regardless of the event. I also don't think the 100m is some godsend event that is the most important thing at the Olympics. I didn't think the 100m was so great when US athletes won it either (which has been pretty frequently). It's just 1 event.

I think Comaneci at Montreal Olympics is more impressive than Phelps at Beijing Olympics, although she won less than half Phelp's won.

and the winner of 100m sprint = the world's fastest man. That alone makes it one of the most important events in the olympics IMO.

[RJM]

Greatest Olympian Ever? Say hello to Andrew Bynum guys.

[vwc228]

I agree with the above poster that Nadia Comaneci's (sorry about the spelling) perfect 10.0 is the greatest Olympic achievement even though Phelps' is also very impressive. Sometimes people don't realize that even the idea of a perfect score was unheard of. It was something that people never even dreamed about because it was considered so out there - so unattainable. Spitz had already gotten 7 gold and therefore people were already imagining that Phelps would brake that record. Phelps achievement, as great as it was, was still within the realm of the human imagination. Nadia's wasn't. Nobody even considered it and thats what makes it so amazing.

For people who don't know gymnastics basically start with a perfect score and get deducted from every misstep, wobble, etc...Even the notion that a gymnast can be flawless in her routine wasn't even considered possible. It was considered possible that Phelps would win 8 medals. And i think thats why Nadia's performance was so impressive - she literally achieved the impossible.

[Doctor MJ]

I agree with the above poster that Nadia Comaneci's (sorry about the spelling) perfect 10.0 is the greatest Olympic achievement even though Phelps' is also very impressive. Sometimes people don't realize that even the idea of a perfect score was unheard of. It was something that people never even dreamed about because it was considered so out there - so unattainable. Spitz had already gotten 7 gold and therefore people were already imagining that Phelps would brake that record. Phelps achievement, as great as it was, was still within the realm of the human imagination. Nadia's wasn't. Nobody even considered it and thats what makes it so amazing.

For people who don't know gymnastics basically start with a perfect score and get deducted from every misstep, wobble, etc...Even the notion that a gymnast can be flawless in her routine wasn't even considered possible. It was considered possible that Phelps would win 8 medals. And i think thats why Nadia's performance was so impressive - she literally achieved the impossible.

I'm no expert on gymnastics, so I can't evaluate her performance that well myself. This unfortunately means that it's simply a judging award, and I have huge problems with Olympic judges. So I wouldn't have that even on my radar really for greatest Olympic accomplishment.

Now something like Vitaly Scherbo's 6 golds in '92, that's worthy of debate.

[vwc228]

I think the fact that its a judging award is what makes it more impressive. The fact that ALL the judges unanimously agreed that she was perfect was remarkable. Some gymnastics scores can vary greatly and the fact that in Nadia's case they all agreed on just how good she was is amazing.

[canoner]

I agree with the above poster that Nadia Comaneci's (sorry about the spelling) perfect 10.0 is the greatest Olympic achievement even though Phelps' is also very impressive. Sometimes people don't realize that even the idea of a perfect score was unheard of. It was something that people never even dreamed about because it was considered so out there - so unattainable. Spitz had already gotten 7 gold and therefore people were already imagining that Phelps would brake that record. Phelps achievement, as great as it was, was still within the realm of the human imagination. Nadia's wasn't. Nobody even considered it and thats what makes it so amazing.

For people who don't know gymnastics basically start with a perfect score and get deducted from every misstep, wobble, etc...Even the notion that a gymnast can be flawless in her routine wasn't even considered possible. It was considered possible that Phelps would win 8 medals. And i think thats why Nadia's performance was so impressive - she literally achieved the impossible.

But of course most American fans don't appreciate it because gymnastic team USA sucked back then and nobody was paying attention.

Speaking of domination, here is another example that a lot of people wouldn't appreciate. The "diving Queen" Gao Min was defeat-less in her career. During a 7 year span between 1986 and 1992, she swept 70+ gold medals on 1m and 3m spring board, including 2 olympic games, 2 world cups, 2 world championships. Not a single loss in seven years. She was so dominant that in many contests she could have skipped the last dive and still got the gold medals. Yes that is right, she could have won taking one dive fewer than opponents. The day she retired was widely celebrated by divers around the world.

Without the team relays, Phelps would have won 4 gold. Still very impressive but people wouldn't be talking about him being the greatest Olympian ever.

[canoner]

I agree with the above poster that Nadia Comaneci's (sorry about the spelling) perfect 10.0 is the greatest Olympic achievement even though Phelps' is also very impressive. Sometimes people don't realize that even the idea of a perfect score was unheard of. It was something that people never even dreamed about because it was considered so out there - so unattainable. Spitz had already gotten 7 gold and therefore people were already imagining that Phelps would brake that record. Phelps achievement, as great as it was, was still within the realm of the human imagination. Nadia's wasn't. Nobody even considered it and thats what makes it so amazing.

For people who don't know gymnastics basically start with a perfect score and get deducted from every misstep, wobble, etc...Even the notion that a gymnast can be flawless in her routine wasn't even considered possible. It was considered possible that Phelps would win 8 medals. And i think thats why Nadia's performance was so impressive - she literally achieved the impossible.

I'm no expert on gymnastics, so I can't evaluate her performance that well myself. This unfortunately means that it's simply a judging award, and I have huge problems with Olympic judges. So I wouldn't have that even on my radar really for greatest Olympic accomplishment.

Now something like Vitaly Scherbo's 6 golds in '92, that's worthy of debate.

I would venture out and say that Johnson and Lukin wouldn't even make the cut to that Romanian team. That is how good that team was and how Comaneci was.

[vwc228]

canoner: Thanks for that info. I didn't know about her. The history of the Olympics is so great that is somewhat surprises me that people seem to have casually annointed Phelps as the greatest olympian ever, overlooking the olympics' great history. Most of us north americans tend to immediately discount most of teh world and their accomplishments.

Phelps, as great as he is, might not even be the greatest American olympian ever. My vote would be for Carl Lewis. The guy DOMINATED an extremely competitive sport for SOOO LONG (almost a decade). He won gold (9 in total) in all events he competed in except one. What is more impressive about his 9 medlas is that track and field is not like swimming where u have sooooo many events and sooo many opportunities to win. He even won gold medals at a completely different event (long jump!?!?).

Back to Nadia, she was so good that moves are named after her. The girl was literally inventing stuff that people had never seen before.

[vwc228]

Ok, i just looked up Gao Min. This woman seems to have been unbelievable. Out of all the things that she did, this completely amazed me: she scored over 600 points 3 different times. I don't follow diving and don't know much about it, but I have seen some of the events and the scores of even the gold winning divers don't even come close to that. incredible.

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

It's impressive that Bolt got the WR, but that record seems to get broken every decade. Mo Greene, Carl Lewis, Powell, Gaitlin, Bolt; and every time it happens people start freaking out about it. Bolt was great in the race, but within another decade it will probably be broken. Phelps having eight golds with 7 in world record time is something we may never see topped. The diving and gymnastics is impressive too, but it's also subjective. It's in the judges eyes who is perfect and who is not, as oppossed to an unbiased machine.

So I'm going with Phelps, he has maintained absolute dominance in his sport in an era when the competition in his sport is at its highest. He has the career gold record and the single Olympics gold record and he's still got another Olympics to go.

[Doctor MJ]

But of course most American fans don't appreciate it because gymnastic team USA sucked back then and nobody was paying attention.

Good lord, must everything be made about trashing American fans?

Regardless, Nadia's performance is very well known by Americans. If there's an issue with her being underappreciated, it's obviously because it took place 32 years ago when most people here weren't even born.

[Doctor MJ]

I would venture out and say that Johnson and Lukin wouldn't even make the cut to that Romanian team. That is how good that team was and how Comaneci was.

Really? You think that the top two gymnasts in the world today wouldn't have been in the top 6 of the 2nd best team in the world 32 years ago? Wow. As I've said, I'm know expert, but I didn't think there was a single popular sport today that's regressed that badly. Can you elaborate on why gymnasts are so pathetic today?

[Doctor MJ]

Back to Nadia, she was so good that moves are named after her. The girl was literally inventing stuff that people had never seen before.

Uh, isn't this pretty common. I mean, doesn't Carly Patterson have a move named after her?

[Al n' Perk No Layups!]

But of course most American fans don't appreciate it because gymnastic team USA sucked back then and nobody was paying attention.

Good lord, must everything be made about trashing American fans?

Regardless, Nadia's performance is very well known by Americans. If there's an issue with her being underappreciated, it's obviously because it took place 32 years ago when most people here weren't even born.

No, it's clearly because you're arrogant, homeristic and underappreciative of greatness. If you really cared about greatness, you would've been watching from your mother's uterus.

[canoner]

But of course most American fans don't appreciate it because gymnastic team USA sucked back then and nobody was paying attention.

Good lord, must everything be made about trashing American fans?

Regardless, Nadia's performance is very well known by Americans. If there's an issue with her being underappreciated, it's obviously because it took place 32 years ago when most people here weren't even born.

This is not trashing really. Didn't you ask earlier today that "how is 100m the most exciting event of the whole Olympic game?" That says enough how fans here under appreciate things they are not best at. Understandable, that is human nature.

[canoner]

I would venture out and say that Johnson and Lukin wouldn't even make the cut to that Romanian team. That is how good that team was and how Comaneci was.

Really? You think that the top two gymnasts in the world today wouldn't have been in the top 6 of the 2nd best team in the world 32 years ago? Wow. As I've said, I'm know expert, but I didn't think there was a single popular sport today that's regressed that badly. Can you elaborate on why gymnasts are so pathetic today?

It is not gymnasts are pathetic today. It is gymnasts were unbelievable back then. Russia and Romania were two machines coining GREAT gymnasts year after year. They went through inhuman trainings that no parents nowadays would let their kid endure.

[canoner]

Ok, i just looked up Gao Min. This woman seems to have been unbelievable. Out of all the things that she did, this completely amazed me: she scored over 600 points 3 different times. I don't follow diving and don't know much about it, but I have seen some of the events and the scores of even the gold winning divers don't even come close to that. incredible.

Yet the guy on NBC just claimed more than once that GUO is the most accomplished female diver in the history. This is the best guy NBC has on diving?

[Doctor MJ]

This is not trashing really. Didn't you ask earlier today that "how is 100m the most exciting event of the whole Olympic game?" That says enough how fans here under appreciate things they are not best at. Understandable, that is human nature.

No, I didn't.

[Doctor MJ]

It is not gymnasts are pathetic today. It is gymnasts were unbelievable back then. Russia and Romania were two machines coining GREAT gymnasts year after year. They went through inhuman trainings that no parents nowadays would let their kid endure.

Have you seen what the Chinese do with those kids today? I'd agree there's a limit to what happens in the US, but I think it's pretty unreasonable to think the Chinese have such limits. So here you're talking about a country of over a billion people devoting all their most talented children from the time they can walk, and you're saying that none of them would even make the team of a small European country whose biggest advantage (beyond the discipline which China undoubtedly has) was the revolutionary techniques that now everyone has access to. That's just seems completely unreasonable.

Let me ask a question to you or anyone else who knows gymnastics (as I've said, I don't): Have their been new moves developed in the last 30 years that are more difficult to achieve than what existed back then? If not, that's incredibly telling.

[eyeatoma]

A good article on why Michael Phelps isn't the greatest Olympian of all time...

Golden one last time, but greatest Olympian ever?

By TIM DAHLBERG, AP Sports Columnist

BEIJING (AP)—The last one was a gimme because the U.S. has never lost this Olympic relay and it seems Michael Phelps never loses.

Just in case, though, Phelps had his own personal closer, Jason Lezak, ready to pick up a save in a relay race that would stamp his teammate as the most golden of all Olympians.

It hardly proved necessary because Phelps did the heavy lifting himself this time, swimming past an Australian and a Japanese in the butterfly to hand Lezak a lead he wasn’t about to lose. The only thing left was to celebrate and break out a calculator to add up the medal haul.

To read more click on the link below...

Link: http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijin ... &type=lgns

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