Has Dirk Fallen Off That Much?

[Patterns]

One season he was challenging the old Bulls team for the most wins in a single season ever.

One season he was smacking the Spurs and Duncan around, kicking them out of the playoffs.

One season his team was nearly unbeatable and he was the Most Valueble Player in the league with people saying that he might be better than Kobe.

Now he isn't a top 10 player, a defensive liability, a soft offensive player, and a choker.

Is Dirk passed his prime individually?

Will he have any more success in the playoffs?

Does Dirk need a Vince Carter or Ray Allen type of perimeter player to succeed?

[NetsForce]

Dirk isn't soft defensively. He WAS soft defensively, but he isn't anymore, matter of fact he hasn't been for the past few years. Sure he chokes from time to time but losing to the Heat in the finals for example had more to do with Josh Howard and a couple of Zebras than anything else.

Dirk is solid the West is just even better than it previously was.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

Dirk had a great series against the Hornets and hes not even that bad defensively...hes still a top 10 player..

[MaryvalesFinest]

If anything Dirk is overated.

[Jordans_Prodigy]

Well you have to remember these opinions are just from the people on RealGM (though he is being labeled a choker all around)

I actually think he'll have a comeback season as will Nash (at least to the point where he's mentioned near the top of the pg chain along with CP and Deron)

But Dirk does deserve the criticism for his performance in the finals, and especially for not being able to lead his team past the 8th seeded Warriors, Major dissapointment for such a great year.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

At this point, Dirk is underrated..people were trying to say that Josh Howard was better than him? really? If anything Josh has been the biggest chocker..

[Captain_Obvious]

I dont know if he will slow down. He just quit with the NT and that will help him and the Mavs on the long run. Personally i dont think he will slow down within the next two years, but who knows. Kind of an odd time to create such a thread in the middle of no basketball with Dirk.

What i disagree is that he is not a Top 10 player now, i think the series he posted versus NOH was a good series for him individually and solified his position in the Top 10. But that is subject to every own opinion along the soft, unclutch and no defense stuff. Can he fall out of the Top 10? Sure he can and i think he will start slow once again this season. But as long as he's beasting at the end of the season i dont consider Dirk the questionmark for the Mavs. That would be Kidd who lost 20 steps since he has become a Mav and Howard who is such a bad human being.

[SaintofKillers]

I don't think Dirk's "fallen off" it's just that the NBA (and the rest of the world) has figured him out.

Dirk for most of his career thrived on the mismatches he created; the whole concept of too tall and too quick. Some coaches experimented with the idea of putting a smaller defender on him like Adelman did with Turkoglu and had some moderate success but wasn't able to milk it too much because it also created another mismatch which is having your PF guard the SF.

Pat Riley eventually introduced the blueprint that many coaches would base their defensive scheme on: guard Dirk with a small, quick player (to contest his face-up game) and throw another defender on his blindside when he tries to create. Nellie even took it a step further by literally having another guy prepare to slide over to draw the charge as an insurance. Last season almost EVERY team used this tactic and in the FIBA Qualifiers, the Olympics -- he's been exposed.

This can be chalked up to the lack of perimeter shooting. If Dirk is surrounded by 2 or 3 guys who can knock down shots with a high degree of consistency, we'll probably see this less and less. But as long as he has Steffan Hamman, Demond Green, Jerry Stackhouse, Jason Kidd/Devin Harris, a streaky Josh Howard, etc. I would quadruple team the hell out of him.

[BigOrangeBalls]

What?

Is David Hasselhoff a bad singer?

Dirk needs more hilfe from his teammates. Less pot smoking and more good ball.

[Roger Murdock]

I really dont think hes any worse than he was 2 years ago. I think hes a top 10 player, and pretty easily. Maybe number 7 or 8.

[Bucky O'Hare]

That's what back-to-back first round exits will do to you. The Mavs need to get back on track this upcoming season and actually do something come April and May, or it's time to rebuild in Big D.

[carrottop12]

According to Obinna he's not a top 10 player unless you consider Amare a top 6 or 7 player.

So yeah, he's fallen off a considerable amount considering 2 years ago he was a legit top 5 player.

[HarlemHeat37]

he's definitely a top 10 player and has become underrated..btw, Dirk didn't smack Tim Duncan around..Duncan completely dominated that series, even while playing injured..

[NO-KG-AI]

I don't think I ever had him as a solidified top 5 guy, he definitely had a top 5 season when he was MVP, but I always felt as if there was about 5 players that were better, he was usually around 6 or so though.

He needs a new dimension to his game to solidify himself as a top big man though, no player is perfect, and the two top big men, Duncan and Garnett are not as explosive scoring the ball as Dirk, but if you play them to stifle one part of their game, they can hurt you some other way, if you throw a small on them, they will post and get fouls, if you put bigs, they will drag them outside and get them away from the paint, if you double and triple as soon as they touch it, they find guys immediately with great passes. Even beyond that, they can be completely shut down offensively, and still attack the glass hard, and dominate defensively, which is why I was never able to elevate Dirk over either of them.

He's a formidable offensive player, but like SaintofKillers said, there is a blueprint to shutting down his offense... could you imagine if everyone tried to play Duncan and Garnett with 6'7 forwards? rofl

Dirk does a few things really well, he's obviously a tremendous shooter, this coupled with his above average ball handling allows him to draw in big men close, where he can get a step on them with his dribble drive, and draw fouls, get to the basket etc. The problem comes when they put a SF on him, he loses his ability to dribble drive past them, so he turns to post up, which is great, he has a nice turn around from the elbow, and he has the size to shoot right over the top, BUT he doesn't seem to be able to handle double teams well with his back to the basket, and when he starts to post up, they blindside him, and bad things happen for the offense. If he had a varied post game, he could get deep position and dominate the Posey's and Haslem's and SJax's of this world.

Still though, Tyson Chandler and David West played him exceptionally well, and he was still getting his points(27/12/4 if im not mistaken), so he can definitely get his on anyone, but he is heavily reliant on perimeter play, and you can and will go cold.

He does need other guys to take pressure off of him offensively though, because he can be gameplanned against and at least slowed to a large extent, so another potent scorer, preferably a shooter would help. Should have traded for Vince Carter, Jet and VC could have handled the ball handling duties fine there.

He's firmly in my top 10, but he's noticeably behind Duncan and Garnett though.

[joe.linnen]

Its not that he has fallen off. He needs to have a better player on his team, a powerful guard would do the trick. Bryant, James, Wade, or Paul

[Point forward]

The whole Mavs team around Dirk has progressively become worse. JHo was once the best 2nd option SF, now he is smoking pot and playing terribly. Terry was once one of the best combo guards and incredibly clutch, now he is unremarkable. Stackhouse was a perennial 6MOY candidate, now he is getting old. Damp is Damp, a playoffs submarine as always. AND: everybody figured out that Avery Johnson is a tactical 1 trick pony who cannot adjust to elite guards (Wade, Kobe, Baron, CP3, even Ellis) to save his life.

[SaintofKillers]

You're right on the money at most points but I disagree with Damp. He was brought in to do the dirty work (i.e. rebound/tip misses, set screens) and that's exactly what he does. Expecting him to score would be squeezing blood out of a turnip although at times he has provided bursts of offense and clutch baskets when needed. He's really the only Mav free from blame because he knows his role and does it well.

Most of the problems could be traced to Avery Johnson who, when not chanting inspirational slogans, is about as good of a coach as a dead fish. Actually when I thought about it: Avery is a shining example of what happens when you make a RealGM poster coach an NBA team because his coaching philosophies are based entirely on cliches. A lanky, 7-foot SG having trouble scoring against smaller defenders? Turn him into a low post threat! A do-it-all multi-purpose swingman in the vein of Scottie Pippen? Let's make him the 1st option and Dirk into a decoy/passing station so he would have that breakout year! The past champions have this thing called a "veteran presence", let's stockpile the team with 40 year-olds then! Every team has a defensive stopper, by golly I must have one as well! Damnit, I can't coach 48 minutes; get me a point guard! What, I'm fired? Oh well, a point guard wasn't my idea to begin with.

[CB4MiamiHeat]

I don't think I ever had him as a solidified top 5 guy, he definitely had a top 5 season when he was MVP, but I always felt as if there was about 5 players that were better, he was usually around 6 or so though.

He needs a new dimension to his game to solidify himself as a top big man though, no player is perfect, and the two top big men, Duncan and Garnett are not as explosive scoring the ball as Dirk, but if you play them to stifle one part of their game, they can hurt you some other way, if you throw a small on them, they will post and get fouls, if you put bigs, they will drag them outside and get them away from the paint, if you double and triple as soon as they touch it, they find guys immediately with great passes. Even beyond that, they can be completely shut down offensively, and still attack the glass hard, and dominate defensively, which is why I was never able to elevate Dirk over either of them.

He's a formidable offensive player, but like SaintofKillers said, there is a blueprint to shutting down his offense... could you imagine if everyone tried to play Duncan and Garnett with 6'7 forwards? rofl

Dirk does a few things really well, he's obviously a tremendous shooter, this coupled with his above average ball handling allows him to draw in big men close, where he can get a step on them with his dribble drive, and draw fouls, get to the basket etc. The problem comes when they put a SF on him, he loses his ability to dribble drive past them, so he turns to post up, which is great, he has a nice turn around from the elbow, and he has the size to shoot right over the top, BUT he doesn't seem to be able to handle double teams well with his back to the basket, and when he starts to post up, they blindside him, and bad things happen for the offense. If he had a varied post game, he could get deep position and dominate the Posey's and Haslem's and SJax's of this world.

Still though, Tyson Chandler and David West played him exceptionally well, and he was still getting his points(27/12/4 if im not mistaken), so he can definitely get his on anyone, but he is heavily reliant on perimeter play, and you can and will go cold.

He does need other guys to take pressure off of him offensively though, because he can be gameplanned against and at least slowed to a large extent, so another potent scorer, preferably a shooter would help. Should have traded for Vince Carter, Jet and VC could have handled the ball handling duties fine there.

He's firmly in my top 10, but he's noticeably behind Duncan and Garnett though.

good post, thats how i feel about Dirk, right at the end of my top 10..hes always had a great team, so i felt he got too much credit things were going right....just like hes getting too much blame now for whatever goes wrong.

[Don Draper]

He's just out of the top 10

[TsunamiZC]

He's just out of the top 10

so that makes Amare about a 12 I guess