With pole lost, so are vaulter's Olympic dreams
They lost her pole. She lost a chance to win a medal.
Brazilian pole vaulter Fabiana Murer says Olympic officials lost one of her poles during Monday's final at the Bird's Nest, costing her a chance to compete for a medal.
"It feels like they stole these Olympics from me," Murer said in tears, after finishing in 10th place among the 12 finalists. "I've never seen anything like this."
XcalibuR wrote:
Thats the one i was talking about and it is not daming evidence at all. If ESPN incorrectly said Shawn Johnson was 11, would you take their word over the US gymnastics authorities?
Yao_noodle wrote:feel better now? or whining all the way to the next Olympics?
dougthonus wrote:It's worth remembering, if you forgot or didn't know, that China has previously used underage gymnasts that had valid passports who then later on admitted that their papers were forged. They've also well known to forge papers for basketball as well.
Let's recap here:
1) China has a history of forging athletes ages in multiple sports.
2) That history includes this sport and has been admitted to by past athletes.
3) 3 of their athletes had previously been reported to be two to three years younger in local papers and provincial tournament entry paperwork
Your conclusion:
China didn't cheat.
If you believe that, okay.
If you think it's stupid to whine about it, then okay. Personally, I think given the fact that China admitted to it before and obviously did it again that they should be banned from Gymnastics next Olympics. I don't see how they can openly cheat to the point where EVERYONE knows it's happening and it's been admitted to in the past and they aren't punished.
Blame Rasho wrote:XcalibuR wrote:
Thats the one i was talking about and it is not daming evidence at all. If ESPN incorrectly said Shawn Johnson was 11, would you take their word over the US gymnastics authorities?
Yeah and Yi is 19.... I am sure you believe that as well...
I am sorry but I think it beyond stupid to believe China when it is in their best interest to have the best gymnasts regardless of age in their hosted Olympics.
If you want to be ignore to what all of our eyes say, what the AP reported, and what basic common sense says... fine. I just think it is very naive and dumb to believe what China is telling the entire world.
Blame Rasho wrote:XcalibuR wrote:The evidence was on their own documents of the girls age in all their own local tournaments and newspapers prior to the Olympics which have all been uncovered and hence been changed.
I need to see that link. I remember some online newspaperthat had the girl's age listed wrong and then corrected it immediately, but I don't remember any official document that stated the girl's ages were different.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijin ... &type=lgnsBEIJING (AP)—The International Olympic Committee’s top medical official said Friday that “age manipulation” is difficult to detect and that tests purporting to pinpoint a person’s age can be off by as much as two years.
Arne Ljungqvist, head of the IOC medical commission spoke two days after China’s controversial gold medal in women’s team gymnastics.
Gymnasts must be 16 during the Olympic year to be eligible for the games. Online records and newspaper accounts suggest three Chinese gymnasts—He Kexin, Jiang Yuyuan and Jang Yilin—may be underage, but Chinese passport records show they meet the age rules.
http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijin ... &type=lgnsBEIJING (AP)—Just nine months before the Beijing Olympics, the Chinese government’s news agency, Xinhua, reported that gymnast He Kexin was 13, which would have made her ineligible to be on the team that won a gold medal this week.
In its report Nov. 3, Xinhua identified He as one of “10 big new stars” who made a splash at China’s Cities Games. It gave her age as 13 and reported that she beat Yang Yilin on the uneven bars at those games. In the final, “this little girl” pulled off a difficult release move on the bars known as the Li Na, named for another Chinese gymnast, Xinhua said in the report, which appeared on one of its Web sites, http://www.hb.xinhuanet.com
The Associated Press found the Xinhua report on the site Thursday morning and saved a copy of the page. Later that afternoon, the Web site was still working but the page was no longer accessible. Sports editors at the state-run news agency would not comment for publication.
Damning enough?
GQStylin wrote:So if the proof is so overwhelming, then why did the IOC allow it? I mean if people have gather such definitive, 100%, ironclad proof, then why do they still allow the Chinese to compete? Or maybe the proof is strong but not quite 100%?
GQStylin wrote:Also I'm unclear as to what the overwhelming advantage is to have underagers competing for you. Is it flexibility or something else? I just find it difficult to believe that a Shawn Johnson or a Nastia Liukin could be outclassed by a similarly talented gymnast who happened to be a few years younger. Its not like Shawn and Nastia are both 25 competing against 13 year olds.
So assuming that at least some of the Chinese gymnasts were underage by a few years, what advantage does that gymnast have over a 16 year old Shawn or an 18 year old Nastia? And on the flipside wouldn't that mean that Shawn and Nastia both hold more experience than the Chinese?
Also, those supposed underage Chinese gymnasts weren't exactly dominate were they? Be it nerves or whatever, after taking the team all-around, they weren't exactly winning gold left, right and centre afterwards like the Chinese men were and Shawn and Nastia seemed to look much more steadier than their Chinese counterparts.
XcalibuR wrote:Blame Rasho wrote:XcalibuR wrote:
Thats the one i was talking about and it is not daming evidence at all. If ESPN incorrectly said Shawn Johnson was 11, would you take their word over the US gymnastics authorities?
Yeah and Yi is 19.... I am sure you believe that as well...
I am sorry but I think it beyond stupid to believe China when it is in their best interest to have the best gymnasts regardless of age in their hosted Olympics.
If you want to be ignore to what all of our eyes say, what the AP reported, and what basic common sense says... fine. I just think it is very naive and dumb to believe what China is telling the entire world.
And you are saying all of this with a clear bias, if you wanna believe you got cheated, fine. Its whining like this that makes me feel even better about china's domination. I'm sorry that you can't react with the same amount of classiness and grace of a 16 year old little girl.
canoner wrote:In the first quote, there is following text: "Ljungqvist chose his words carefully, saying he had no reason to believe Chinese had manipulated documents to make the gymnasts appear to be of age." Clear enough?
canoner wrote:Let's just assume for a minutes that every team is allowed to send whoever they like, what young girls team USA is gonna send? I don't see the point of this age limit at all. There is no age limit on other sports of this Olympic game. Also, why insist at most 2 players from one country in any event finals? There are like 3 americans and 3 Jamaicans in most sprint finals. All these extra limits seems to be result of self-interests.
In the first quote, there is following text: "Ljungqvist chose his words carefully, saying he had no reason to believe Chinese had manipulated documents to make the gymnasts appear to be of age." Clear enough?
5DOM wrote:canoner wrote:In the first quote, there is following text: "Ljungqvist chose his words carefully, saying he had no reason to believe Chinese had manipulated documents to make the gymnasts appear to be of age." Clear enough?
I think Ljungqvist is an idiot. If the underage gymnasts are China's best, that is a good enough reason for them to cheat.
canoner wrote:5DOM wrote:canoner wrote:In the first quote, there is following text: "Ljungqvist chose his words carefully, saying he had no reason to believe Chinese had manipulated documents to make the gymnasts appear to be of age." Clear enough?
I think Ljungqvist is an idiot. If the underage gymnasts are China's best, that is a good enough reason for them to cheat.
Blame Rasho quoted that report as a "damning" evidence. The funny thing is what Ljungqvist said is exactly the opposite. If Ljungqvist was insinuating that Chinese cheated, he had no reason to say that "he had no reason to believe Chinese had manipulated documents to make the gymnasts appear to be of age". Even if he wanted to be politically correct or sensitive, he could easily say "this concern is not regarding any specific country" or "there is no concrete proof of any foul play".
Yes... I am biased but am I distorting the truth? No. Unlike others....
Like i said, if you want to believe China fine... It is just very naive and dumb to believe otherwise that there isn't a legit case for it to be made that they have changed ages in order to benefit in the games.
I mean we are supposed to believe that they are going to be 16 this year given that China says so? We are suppose to believe that Yi was 19 when he was drafted? Some people so are gullible.
My point was that the AP got report from the gov news agency and then all of a sudden it gone? Why would that happen? You are only bringing attention to yourself when you suddenly restrict the information from the masses. You only do that if you have something to hide.
Blame Rasho wrote:I don't think there should be an age limit, but there is... why have a rule and not enforce it. You encourage cheating. If you have a gymnasts who is a prodigy, you want that person to be in it as often as you can given that the games are only once every 4 years.
XcalibuR wrote:
Yes... I am biased but am I distorting the truth? No. Unlike others....
Like i said, if you want to believe China fine... It is just very naive and dumb to believe otherwise that there isn't a legit case for it to be made that they have changed ages in order to benefit in the games.
I mean we are supposed to believe that they are going to be 16 this year given that China says so? We are suppose to believe that Yi was 19 when he was drafted? Some people so are gullible.
Again, with that type of bias, you are claiming an allegation as the "truth" even without conclusive evidence. Am I suppose to believe some 2nd rate sports journalists over the words of the IOC and the people with real authority? No, I would only choose to believe that if I was biased towards the Americans.
Americans believed Mark Mcguire didn't take steroids, Marion Jones was clean, and you're calling others gullible? Someone give me conclusive evidence, an admission, an unforgable document, an investigation from the IOC, otherwise presumption of innocence holds, that's the only American way.
Blame Rasho wrote:canoner wrote:Blame Rasho quoted that report as a "damning" evidence. The funny thing is what Ljungqvist said is exactly the opposite. If Ljungqvist was insinuating that Chinese cheated, he had no reason to say that "he had no reason to believe Chinese had manipulated documents to make the gymnasts appear to be of age". Even if he wanted to be politically correct or sensitive, he could easily say "this concern is not regarding any specific country" or "there is no concrete proof of any foul play".
My point was that the AP got report from the gov news agency and then all of a sudden it gone when they want to run the story? Why would that happen? You are only bringing attention to yourself when you suddenly restrict the information from the masses. You only do that if you have something to hide. But I guess, I have to take it in good faith that there is a logical reason behind that....
canoner wrote:Blame Rasho wrote:I don't think there should be an age limit, but there is... why have a rule and not enforce it. You encourage cheating. If you have a gymnasts who is a prodigy, you want that person to be in it as often as you can given that the games are only once every 4 years.
But the thing is thing is there may be nothing fishy at all. Has it occured to you or others that may He is of age and every explanation given was legit? Or do you simply refuse to see that possibility?
Look can be misleading. LBJ and Odon looked 35 years old to me when they entered NBA. Madonna doesn't look like 50 years old to me. People still ask my wife which college she is in (yeah lucky me). You just cannot tell age by look.
