The Great Debate

tbhawksfan · Post #1 » by **tbhawksfan** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:33 pm

Smoove; Power Forward or Small forward ????

Marvin; Power Forward or Small forward ????

Horford; Center or Power forward ????

You go from site to site and the consensus changes. ESPN lists Marv as the PF, most show him at SF. Our own boards seem to disagree on the matter. What is the situation when we can't agree on the positions of most of our core?

So, what do you think? What should the players positions be listed as? What position iare each of these guys best suited to? What should our depth chart look like?

The big question is, why haven't these roles been clearly defined over the very stable last few seasons? Woodson not able to even place his players in a defineable position or flow chart? Or is BK's dream of inter-changeable pieces a thing of beauty?

Lot's of questions, really just intrigued by the position debates on the different sites and boards.

LHughes/JSmooth · Post #2 » by **LHughes/JSmooth** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:56 pm

Marvin : SF
Smith : PF
Horford : C

I think Horford can play C with any team. Marvin is a forward, he can play either, there are alot of guys like that in the league. Smith is a PF, as a default since he can't guard SFs and he can block shots in the paint.

Harry10 · Post #3 » by **Harry10** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:06 pm

ideally, if Marvin can get a 3pt shot, then he could be a SG, because his ball handling skills and lateral quickness are not that bad.

killbuckner · Post #4 » by **killbuckner** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:09 pm

Smith's best defensive position is PF but he can play SF. Horford's best position is PF but he can play center. Marvin is a SF for now but if he doesn't start exploiting weak defenders on the wing then I think he will eventually be a PF. He can certainly play PF now in a small lineup but the hawks are pretty much always in a small lineup with Horford and Smith on the floor.

JoshB914 · Post #5 » by **JoshB914** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:33 pm

The roles have been clearly defined. Marvin starts at SF every game, Smith starts at PF and plays there, and Horford starts at center. Perhaps these guys can play other roles, but their roles for the Hawks are pretty clear and it bothers me that outsiders can't figure it out.

CWell · Post #6 » by **CWell** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:38 am

Harry10 wrote:ideally, if Marvin can get a 3pt shot, then he could be a SG, because his ball handling skills and lateral quickness are not that bad.

lol Marvin has the worst handle of all the starters. Marvin can barely play SF. He couldn't play any guard spot if his life depended on it. The guy is so uncoordinated everytime he tries to run and dribble at the same time he trips and falls over his feet or dribbles it off his foot.

raleigh · Post #7 » by **raleigh** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:02 am

JoshB914 wrote:The roles have been clearly defined. Marvin starts at SF every game, Smith starts at PF and plays there, and Horford starts at center. Perhaps these guys can play other roles, but their roles for the Hawks are pretty clear and it bothers me that outsiders can't figure it out.

Then it must drive you crazy that Hawks' fans can't figure it out, no? {I think most of them are just contrarians, but still...}.

Skyhawk1 · Post #8 » by **Skyhawk1** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:42 am

I totally agree with CWell. Anyone who thinks Marvin can handle the ball well must be kidding. He can't even control his own body man. I believe that if He had stayed 1 or 2 more years in college, he'd be a much better player. His defense is attrocious. He can't guad SFs due to his weight and size( which means very bad lateral speed and foot work ) and gets abused everytime the other team switches him and Smith and he's got to guard a PF. Anyway, he's a SF. Smith is much more effective playing closer to the basket, he's a PF. Horford is so good that if needed he'd play PG on my team, but he plays C and does a great job.

reazun · Post #9 » by **reazun** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:19 am

tbhawksfan wrote:Smoove; Power Forward or Small forward ????

Marvin; Power Forward or Small forward ????

Horford; Center or Power forward ????

You go from site to site and the consensus changes. ESPN lists Marv as the PF, most show him at SF. Our own boards seem to disagree on the matter. What is the situation when we can't agree on the positions of most of our core.

theres really no debate. Marvin is the SF, Josh is the PF, and Al is the Center. The only people that disagree are people who dont follow the Hawks enough. I dont know why ESPN and some other sites get it wrong, but every fan that is a true fan and not a casual person who watches a few games knows that this is the position that they play every game at the tip off. I can see why you are confused though, alot of sites screw it up for some reason.

Master8492 · Post #10 » by **Master8492** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:09 pm

Marvin Williams is listed as a SF on ESPN.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/p ... atsId=3928

Rod700 · Post #11 » by **Rod700** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:58 pm

I had posted this on another thread, but it should have gone here. Here are my thoughts on the position Smoove and Marv play:

Rod700 wrote:There are a couple of issues in here that I've been pondering for a while. I was thinking of starting a thread about it, but you brought them both out here: Can Smoove play SF? Are he and Marv a good combo? To the first question, I've been in the camp that emphatically views Smoove's success as being due to his move to PF. However, upon thinking about it from another angle, I realize that positions are really more of a reflection of offensive duties rather than defensive. A defensive stopper at SF will often guard the other teams best scorer if he is a SG, and that doesn't make the SF any less of a SF. My point here is that yes, Smoove needs to continue guarding PF's and hanging near the basket as opposed to guarding the perimeter or chasing shooters through screens, but on the OFFENSIVE end, I see his scoring threat as being mainly a slasher role as opposed to posting up and being a banger. Sure he can post up some, but lots of small forwards post up from time to time. Given Marv's new found bulk of 245 pounds, and his inabilty to slash, I want to see Marv in the post more. Maybe he can actually serve as our PF (keeping in mind that I'm using that as an offensive term). Of course you could make the arguement that, if he has developed that 3 he has been practicing in the off-season, he is more apt to continue being a SF, but I just see this as making him more versatile, and a better fit with Smoove, who would serve as the slasher, moving without the ball, perhaps catching passes from Marv who is in the post or at the 3 point line. I realize that those are some huge "if's", assuming Marv can develop a post up game and/or a 3 point shot he didn't have last year. If he does, then yes, he is a whole new player and he fits perfectly with Smoove. If he's the same old Marv, then he is not only not a great fit with the Smoove, but the team would need someone else on a somewhat small front line who can support Hortford and Smoove with more than average numbers and an offensive game limited to a mid-range jump shot.

Rod700 · Post #12 » by **Rod700** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:00 pm

^^^Just adding Hortford to the above. I think it is most accurate to call him a F/C. His best position is forward, but he can play center, especially in the east. Lots of players play multiple positions. I don't think there's really much more to say on Hortford's position beyond that.

old rem · Post #13 » by **old rem** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:23 am

LHughes/JSmooth wrote:Marvin : SF
Smith : PF
Horford : C

I think Horford can play C with any team. Marvin is a forward, he can play either, there are alot of guys like that in the league. Smith is a PF, as a default since he can't guard SFs and he can block shots in the paint.

Horford only has a slight edge on size but he plays well in traffic,plays bigger than he is. Josh's shotblocking is a plus and PF keeps him in a bit closer. While Marvin improved some-he tends to avoid contact and lacks rebounder instincts. His best offense is a midrange J. Marvin can slash but won't beat a strong defender at the rim,which is something Horford can do.

tbhawksfan · Post #14 » by **tbhawksfan** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:43 pm

OK, so we seem to agree on:

Horford

Smoove

Marvin.

Problem with our current roter, which some seem to be happy with, is that Zaza is our third big behind Horford and Smoove. I'd feel much better about the team with Zaza as our fourth big.

killbuckner · Post #15 » by **killbuckner** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:50 pm

the question is what you would be willing to give up to get a big in that would be an upgrade over Zaza. Its not like there is a ton of spare value on the team just floating around.

tbhawksfan · Post #16 » by **tbhawksfan** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:59 pm

Law could really be the key to this team taking off. If he can merit taking over for Bibby, Bibby could look real interesting to some teams at or before the deadline. Speedy could also really help if he can play, if not Flip is insurance at the point.

Anyway, it could turn out that Law takes over and Speedy and Flip back up and Bibby can be moved for a young Center. If the others can take up the slack, a Bibby trade could complete the Hawks move to contender.

killbuckner · Post #17 » by **killbuckner** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:01 pm

I think there is far more chance that Speedy passes up law than there is that Law passes up Bibby.

tbhawksfan · Post #18 » by **tbhawksfan** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:09 pm

OK, there's little chance Law develops into a top tier PG; but why not a second tier? He could still develop into a Devin Harris type. Some PG's take a little time. The Hawks should be better this season, but their real window of opportunity starts the next season.

killbuckner · Post #19 » by **killbuckner** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:20 pm

tb- law was a 4 year college player. And Law wasn't anywhere CLOSE to where Harris was as a rookie. Devin Harris isn't a good comparison at all. Maybe someone like Royal Ivey who had a better rookie year. Sebastian Telfair had a better rookie year coming straight out of highschool. If you didn't know where Law got picked then NO ONE would be talking about him as a potential starter.

tbhawksfan · Post #20 » by **tbhawksfan** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:59 pm

I still say it's too early to say that he won't develop into a quality NBA starter.