Robbed?: post your complaints

[XcalibuR]

So the IOC an organization that is far from impeccable(an organization with an ungodly amount of controversies ex, RRJ, Figure skating, hell last years mens rings) is more trustworthy? Honestly I can't believe some people are so gullible.

They are in power for a reason. They may not be perfect but they are the only ones with authority. If you wanna believe a sports journalist over the IOC, fine. That seems a lot more gullible to me.

[dacher]

cute midgets. make of the photos what you will.

awwww.... (no homo ... uh, i mean, no pedo)

[XcalibuR]

Asians look younger than their age all the time, I donno why Americans are that surprised. People still believe my dad is in his 30s and my grandpa in his 60s when they are 20 years older than that.

[GQStylin]

Also I'm unclear as to what the overwhelming advantage is to have underagers competing for you. Is it flexibility or something else? I just find it difficult to believe that a Shawn Johnson or a Nastia Liukin could be outclassed by a similarly talented gymnast who happened to be a few years younger. Its not like Shawn and Nastia are both 25 competing against 13 year olds.

So assuming that at least some of the Chinese gymnasts were underage by a few years, what advantage does that gymnast have over a 16 year old Shawn or an 18 year old Nastia? And on the flipside wouldn't that mean that Shawn and Nastia both hold more experience than the Chinese?

Also, those supposed underage Chinese gymnasts weren't exactly dominate were they? Be it nerves or whatever, after taking the team all-around, they weren't exactly winning gold left, right and centre afterwards like the Chinese men were and Shawn and Nastia seemed to look much more steadier than their Chinese counterparts.

Soo uhhh.....can anyone answer?

[XcalibuR]

Also I'm unclear as to what the overwhelming advantage is to have underagers competing for you. Is it flexibility or something else? I just find it difficult to believe that a Shawn Johnson or a Nastia Liukin could be outclassed by a similarly talented gymnast who happened to be a few years younger. Its not like Shawn and Nastia are both 25 competing against 13 year olds.

So assuming that at least some of the Chinese gymnasts were underage by a few years, what advantage does that gymnast have over a 16 year old Shawn or an 18 year old Nastia? And on the flipside wouldn't that mean that Shawn and Nastia both hold more experience than the Chinese?

Also, those supposed underage Chinese gymnasts weren't exactly dominate were they? Be it nerves or whatever, after taking the team all-around, they weren't exactly winning gold left, right and centre afterwards like the Chinese men were and Shawn and Nastia seemed to look much more steadier than their Chinese counterparts.

Soo uhhh.....can anyone answer?

The only advantage would be for future olympics because a gymnast only have a short career. (that 30 year old romanian is a huge exception). Usually gymnasts that are in their 20s would have been surpassed by younger ones. It would be better for gymnasts to enter at a younger age, therefore competing in more olympic games, which is exactly why age limit rule is dumb in the first place.

[canoner]

I don't think there should be an age limit, but there is... why have a rule and not enforce it. You encourage cheating. If you have a gymnasts who is a prodigy, you want that person to be in it as often as you can given that the games are only once every 4 years.

But the thing is thing is there may be nothing fishy at all. Has it occured to you or others that may He is of age and every explanation given was legit? Or do you simply refuse to see that possibility?

Look can be misleading. LBJ and Odon looked 35 years old to me when they entered NBA. Madonna doesn't look like 50 years old to me. People still ask my wife which college she is in (yeah lucky me). You just cannot tell age by look.

Yeah she might actually be 15 going on 16... but if there is alot of things that make you think otherwise.

The thing is that the US doesn't have a history of have questionable bookkeeping.

You can go to the county where LBJ and Oden were born in and see their birthcerticate.

You can go to all the tabloids and see how all plastic work done with Madonna.

Or you can be lucky and look young...

I just think it is silly not to question their ages.... and take China at their word when they have proven to be unreliable at best.

But you are not QUESTIONING their age, you were saying there is no doubt that He is underage. Team USA has done the questioning part and that is that. And everything you listed was already offered to IMO in the questioning process. IMO has made their call and it is time to move on.

[canoner]

cute midgets. make of the photos what you will.

awwww.... (no homo ... uh, i mean, no pedo)

He and Johnson look about same size and built. This should put a brake on the "does she look like 16" question.

[RockTHECasbah]

^ now there are gender issues as well? this is mindblowing

[GQStylin]

The only advantage would be for future olympics because a gymnast only have a short career. (that 30 year old romanian is a huge exception). Usually gymnasts that are in their 20s would have been surpassed by younger ones. It would be better for gymnasts to enter at a younger age, therefore competing in more olympic games, which is exactly why age limit rule is dumb in the first place.

If one more olympics is the only advantage to entering the games underage, then I don't know what the big hoopla is.

[Doctor MJ]

Soo uhhh.....can anyone answer?

Speaking for myself I'd say it's not an advantage because they're young, it's an advantage because their good. The issue is that China cheated.

Speaking to the rule itself though: It's moronic. I understand wanting to protect children, but it's glaringly obvious that the real damage of the sport (the constant training) goes on despite the rule.

The only reason I feel for Liukin specifically is that she's a poster child for having your Olympic cut short by the rule. She misses out on the Olympics because of the damn rule, and then loses a gold medal because the rules aren't being followed by everyone. Sucks.

[YiOF]

There is no reason to argue the age controversy, it doesn't matter if it's true or not, the public opinion on sports controversies is that you are guilty until proven innocent. I think since the Mitchell Report came out, you can't go a week without hearing someone cheating. Spy gate, Tim Dunahee, Marian Jones, Floyd Landis, Barry Bonds, Roger Clements, the list goes on, Every time I turn on Sports Center, someone is cheating. The public have a deep belief that Athletes and Sports organizations would do anything to get an advantage. When Clements was first accused of doping, people had no doubt that he's guilty because he's huge.

I personally don't think the "guilty until proven innocent" mentality is right. The only "evidence" on the age controversy I see in these posts are:

She looks young.
Claimed deleted web page. (still haven't seen the saved version of the website that was deleted)
Old track records.

These evidence wouldn't hold ground in a U.S court, nor would it hold ground in IOC. The only place it will hold is American public opinion. But I mean, who gives a flying f*ck about American public opinions anyways.

[dougthonus]

So if the proof is so overwhelming, then why did the IOC allow it? I mean if people have gather such definitive, 100%, ironclad proof, then why do they still allow the Chinese to compete? Or maybe the proof is strong but not quite 100%?

The IOC doesn't want to accuse the nation of China of being cheating at a governmental level after awarding them the Olympics which pissed off half the rest of the world because they're such a human rights violator. It'd basically be pissing on the honor of the whole country.

Also I'm unclear as to what the overwhelming advantage is to have underagers competing for you. Is it flexibility or something else? I just find it difficult to believe that a Shawn Johnson or a Nastia Liukin could be outclassed by a similarly talented gymnast who happened to be a few years younger. Its not like Shawn and Nastia are both 25 competing against 13 year olds.

I didn't say it was an insurmountable overwhelming advantage, but when you are smaller you can perform moves faster, throw yourself higher, you can bend in ways older girls can't, and you have a lower center of gravity making it easier to complete moves. Regardless of whether it's a small advantage or a big advantage or no advantage, it doesn't change the fact that the athlete was illegal. The Olympics isn't playing (or shouldn't be) with backyard no harm no foul rules here.

Also, those supposed underage Chinese gymnasts weren't exactly dominate were they? Be it nerves or whatever, after taking the team all-around, they weren't exactly winning gold left, right and centre afterwards like the Chinese men were and Shawn and Nastia seemed to look much more steadier than their Chinese counterparts.

Again, so what? If you cheat on a test and get a C do you think it makes it okay?

Seriously, I don't get the rationalization:
It's okay for China to cheat because the US had a chance to overcome it.
It's okay for China to cheat because they didn't gain that big enough advantage from it.
It's okay for China to cheat because it only effected the result of a couple of competitions.
It's okay for China to cheat because the US girls didn't whine about it only the coaches did.

Here's a thought.

It's not okay for China to cheat. At all. Under any circumstances.

[dougthonus]

She looks young.
Claimed deleted web page. (still haven't seen the saved version of the website that was deleted)
Old track records

Don't forget that their ages were also entered in as multiple years younger on multiple tournament entry forms for China's local tournaments over the past three years.

You are basically saying that an age was entered incorrectly for three separate athletes multiple times each over a period of three years, and then they just happened to fix a long standing clerical errors on the group that happen to make them all barely eligible for the Olympics now.

When you add that up with the fact that Chinese gymnasts in the near past have admitted to using passports with doctored ages to compete underage, then maybe it isn't proof good enough for court.

However, if I had an envelope that held their real ages and put a gun to your head and said "tell me if they are really the age on the passports or not, and if you're wrong I'm pulling the trigger" then there isn't a person on this forum who would say they were of age. Not one. There is no legal proof because the government of China forged the only official documents that exist. There is no higher power to go to because China is cheating at the highest level.

[XcalibuR]

^^ You keep saying that but I haven't seen a link from a credible journalist who could provide rock solid evidence. Keeping up the whining doesn't change things, when the US gymnastics authorities offer up something then we'll talk. Before that we can just move on.

[dougthonus]

^^ You keep saying that but I haven't seen a link from a credible journalist who could provide rock solid evidence. Keeping up the whining doesn't change things, when the US gymnastics authorities offer up something then we'll talk. Before that we can just move on.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-flu ... 18842.html

We can just move on, but this is a discussion forum and I'm discussing a topic. If you don't like it then stick your head back in the sand and hide from the obvious.

I mean we all know the IOC isn't going to do anything about it.

It doesn't change the fact that China's government at the highest level promotes cheating in the Olympics. It's not like cheating is anything new. A ton of US athletes cheated by doping (and I'm sure many from other countries as well), at least the US government investigated those athletes and found them guilty and got them disqualified rather than leaving it up to international agencies which would have never been able to do so. The Chinese government not only covers up their cheating, but in fact, is the orchestrator behind it.

[5DOM]

i dunno how anyone can disgree with dougthonus even if one is chinese.

i mean it's not like china hasnt done this before. one of the athletes actually admitted this a few years ago. and all the "unofficial/unchanged" evidences point to the gymnasts being underage.
the rule is dumb, but it's still a rule.

[canoner]

She looks young.
Claimed deleted web page. (still haven't seen the saved version of the website that was deleted)
Old track records

Don't forget that their ages were also entered in as multiple years younger on multiple tournament entry forms for China's local tournaments over the past three years.

mostly are hearsays.

[BlackMamba]

well the mexican taekwondo fighter (idulio islas) of last night got robbed... he clearly made 3 kicks that had to be count as points.

damn humans and their mistakes...

[canoner]

He must have entered competitions before and check her passport record. You can take it from there. All these news reports, as I said, has no legal validity whatsoever. Just because something is repeated by the media multiple times it does not mean it is true. Didn't we hear from media, and from the US government, hundreds of times, that Saddam had WMD before the Iraq war? What did we find? NOTHING.

[5DOM]

Yang Yun of China won individual and team bronze medals at the 2000 Sydney Olympics and later said in an interview on state-run television that she had been 14 at the time of those Games. A Hunan Province sports administration report also said later that she had been 14 when she competed in Sydney.

i guess Yang Yun's (fake) passport was just fine in 2000.

btw

Rogge rips the wrong guy

BEIJING — Jacques Rogge is so bought, so compromised, the president of the IOC doesn’t have the courage to criticize China for telling a decade of lies to land itself these Olympic Games.

All the promises made to get these Games — on Tibet, Darfur, pollution, worker safety, freedom of expression, dissident rights — turned out to be phony, perhaps as phony as the Chinese gymnasts' birth certificates Rogge was way too scared to investigate.

lol