Who will be the 2nd best team in the East in '08-09?

[Neal04]

Are you trying to say that the 08 Sixers are better than the 04 Pistons? I just get that vibe from that post you just wrote.

No one is questioning the fact that Brand fills glaring needs for the Sixers but what I think everyone is trying to say is, let them play first and see what happens. To put it simply, who knows what's going to happen during the season.

One other thing is that steals don't necessarily mean good perimeter defending, it could just mean that the defender gambles a lot.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Or it could mean the passing lanes are being played. I have all respect to: "Let's see how the games play out.". But at the very least, a 20/10 PF is what Philadelphia needed. So I feel like, even if Elton Brand doesn't elavate this team's play on other ends(which he will), his offense makes us a hell of a better team. I feel like Offensively, Philadelphia is at a much higher stage then Cleveland. As I said in that post, rebounds lead to 2nd or 3rd chances. Which is the same if not more then LeBron's ability to explode.

But IF all goes well, then yes I am saying that. Elton Brand makes us better then the 04 Pistons. We won't have the 3pt shooting ability of the 04 Pistons. But we will have mid range shooting and the ability to break down defenses with 3 guys(Miller/Iggy/Lou). And just like Ed Stefanski said in the Press Conference. It was basically 4 on 1 with Iggy VS The Pistons. That can't happen with Brand here.

I will admit. It's an "IF it all goes well" but if it does, the Sixers by virtue of better rebounding and dominance in the paint with slashers/inside play should be a better version of the 04 Pistons.

[roseorbust]

People need to understand this....Mo Williams is a BALL DOMINANT shoot first shooting guard in a point guards body who plays no defense. That description would work if that player was Allen Iverson or Gilbert Arenas. This is Mo Williams. Hes played on a bad team his entire career. Hes been the #2 option because there was NO ONE else. There is no possible way that this experiment works out for an extended period of time. you will see him and Lebron play well in spurts. You Cleveland fans just better hope its during the playoffs. Lebron will get the ball 80 percent of the time in his hands. Thats too much for Mo to handle.

I find it interesting to note that despite the opposition against me. Cleveland is ranked 3rd worst in odds to finish 2nd, behind Washington and Miami. Washington should get alot more votes. It just takes an average defensive year for that team to be beastly. As for Miami, why are they here? Aside from the Big 3. They have no points, no centers, no bench period.

im at a loss for words with these two

I'm sorry, but you seem totally disintrested in telling these people why their wrong, but you would rather just say like a ignorant 13 year old something along the lines of THESE PEOPLE ARE STUPID OMG!!! and then insert a smiley. Please, explain why you disagree rather then just saying a one liner insulting someone. Greenwithenvy and dedicated can be a little home, but their point (I hope) is that a 7vnth seeded 76ers team with Reggie Evans and Willie GREEN starting at times, is a LOT worse then a team that has iggy and Brand starting in those positions with a great young player in Thaddeus young at the three. The sixers should improve, and will be a top 4 seed in the east.

[7r5ur]

Or it could mean the passing lanes are being played. I have all respect to: "Let's see how the games play out.". But at the very least, a 20/10 PF is what Philadelphia needed. So I feel like, even if Elton Brand doesn't elavate this team's play on other ends(which he will), his offense makes us a hell of a better team. I feel like Offensively, Philadelphia is at a much higher stage then Cleveland. As I said in that post, rebounds lead to 2nd or 3rd chances. Which is the same if not more then LeBron's ability to explode.

But IF all goes well, then yes I am saying that. Elton Brand makes us better then the 04 Pistons. We won't have the 3pt shooting ability of the 04 Pistons. But we will have mid range shooting and the ability to break down defenses with 3 guys(Miller/Iggy/Lou). And just like Ed Stefanski said in the Press Conference. It was basically 4 on 1 with Iggy VS The Pistons. That can't happen with Brand here.

I will admit. It's an "IF it all goes well" but if it does, the Sixers by virtue of better rebounding and dominance in the paint with slashers/inside play should be a better version of the 04 Pistons.

Philly's defense is not even remotely close the the Sheed-era '04 Pistons. The league doesn't even allow it anymore.

Besides, the only position Philly is as good at as the '04 Pistons is PF, and with Brand's injury it'll be a wait and see kind of thing. Daly is not '04 Big Ben. Not close. Dre is not Finals MVP era Billups. Rip is a WAY better playoff performer than Iggy. Thadeus still has a little learning to do before he's as good as Prince. And let's not forget Larry Brown (Or Mehmet Okur, Corliss, James, and Hunter).

"On Paper", they have a superior PF (who played 8 games last year), and are worse everywhere else. Let's wait and see how it plays out on the court before comparing them to championship teams of the past. They will be a good team, but let's get real here.

[princeofpalace]

^
Good post, also lets not forget Mike James on the bench. This Phili team isnt even remotely close to the 04 Pistons- who were better at every single position inlcuding PF and had a stronger bench and much better coach. I really dont know how anybody can say with a straight face that Dalembert is on the same level as primce Ben Wallace because the two players just arent close at all. Dalembert and Ben Wallace are closer to the same level right now than they are with 04 Ben and 08 Dalembert. There is little chance that this Phili team is as good as 04 Detroit: the lack the defense, the legit coaching, the depth of the bench, a great (not just above average as Miller, Iggy, Thad, Daly all are) at every position, the 3pt shot, and clutch performer.


Even now Detroit is much better at every position aside from PF and have a superior bench. This homerism continues to be ridicoulous. In addition Im interested too know how one can make the statment that the Cavs beat Pistons 06-8 when Cavs lost in 06 and both teams have dramatically changed since 07 and they didnt play eachother in 08.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Or it could mean the passing lanes are being played. I have all respect to: "Let's see how the games play out.". But at the very least, a 20/10 PF is what Philadelphia needed. So I feel like, even if Elton Brand doesn't elavate this team's play on other ends(which he will), his offense makes us a hell of a better team. I feel like Offensively, Philadelphia is at a much higher stage then Cleveland. As I said in that post, rebounds lead to 2nd or 3rd chances. Which is the same if not more then LeBron's ability to explode.

But IF all goes well, then yes I am saying that. Elton Brand makes us better then the 04 Pistons. We won't have the 3pt shooting ability of the 04 Pistons. But we will have mid range shooting and the ability to break down defenses with 3 guys(Miller/Iggy/Lou). And just like Ed Stefanski said in the Press Conference. It was basically 4 on 1 with Iggy VS The Pistons. That can't happen with Brand here.

I will admit. It's an "IF it all goes well" but if it does, the Sixers by virtue of better rebounding and dominance in the paint with slashers/inside play should be a better version of the 04 Pistons.

Philly's defense is not even remotely close the the Sheed-era '04 Pistons. The league doesn't even allow it anymore.

The Zone isn't allowed? Last I checked, Boston was one of the best zone defensive teams in the league and possibly the reason they won the championship. Detroit's front court and immense perimeter pressure was the main reason for their defense. Philadelphia has as good a perimeter defensive team. At the very least, as good of a defensive back court.,

Besides, the only position Philly is as good at as the '04 Pistons is PF, and with Brand's injury it'll be a wait and see kind of thing. Daly is not '04 Big Ben. Not close. Dre is not Finals MVP era Billups. Rip is a WAY better playoff performer than Iggy. Thadeus still has a little learning to do before he's as good as Prince. And let's not forget Larry Brown (Or Mehmet Okur, Corliss, James, and Hunter).

Daly is not '04 Big Ben. Perhaps not. But Dalembert has improved dramatically on the defensive end. It won't show on the stat sheet. But it showed when we made the playoffs. Dalembert was the key to the Sixers defensive engine last year staying out of foul trouble and guarding some of the best forwards in the league like Tim Duncan. Daly is not '04 Big Ben. But it's not like '04 Big Ben was anything special. Dalembert's overall complete game makes him a better center. Dalembert can run the floor, shoot free throws and be an effective weapon when defenses break down. I can't say the same for Wallace.

"On Paper", they have a superior PF (who played 8 games last year), and are worse everywhere else. Let's wait and see how it plays out on the court before comparing them to championship teams of the past. They will be a good team, but let's get real here.

You mention that he played 8 games, yet you neglect how well he performed in those 8 games. You can't be picky .

Edit: And if you remove Mehmet Okur from that 04 bench, you have Mike James(chucker), Lindsey Hunter(veteran that could score and D a little) and Williamson(Banger PF). That's ironically close to the Sixers bench in Green(chucker), Lou Williams(More of a scorer and not a step off of Andre Miller defensively) and Ratliff(Defensive banger).

We'll have to wait and see for the balls to tip up, but when they do I expect this team to dominate. Having seen them for 82 games without a legit PF. And now having a legit PF like Brand with the defensive strengths that he has and how those strengths fit this team. Yes, they will have an 04 Pistons like year.

Your depth only exists on the offensive end, defensively your a shadow of your former selves. You lack depth at the 5 and big men overall. And please don't bring up the name "Kwame Brown" and defense.

[leevii]

Or it could mean the passing lanes are being played. I have all respect to: "Let's see how the games play out.". But at the very least, a 20/10 PF is what Philadelphia needed. So I feel like, even if Elton Brand doesn't elavate this team's play on other ends(which he will), his offense makes us a hell of a better team. I feel like Offensively, Philadelphia is at a much higher stage then Cleveland. As I said in that post, rebounds lead to 2nd or 3rd chances. Which is the same if not more then LeBron's ability to explode.

But IF all goes well, then yes I am saying that. Elton Brand makes us better then the 04 Pistons. We won't have the 3pt shooting ability of the 04 Pistons. But we will have mid range shooting and the ability to break down defenses with 3 guys(Miller/Iggy/Lou). And just like Ed Stefanski said in the Press Conference. It was basically 4 on 1 with Iggy VS The Pistons. That can't happen with Brand here.

I will admit. It's an "IF it all goes well" but if it does, the Sixers by virtue of better rebounding and dominance in the paint with slashers/inside play should be a better version of the 04 Pistons.

Philly's defense is not even remotely close the the Sheed-era '04 Pistons. The league doesn't even allow it anymore.

The Zone isn't allowed? Last I checked, Boston was one of the best zone defensive teams in the league and possibly the reason they won the championship. Detroit's front court and immense perimeter pressure was the main reason for their defense. Philadelphia has as good a perimeter defensive team. At the very least, as good of a defensive back court.,

Besides, the only position Philly is as good at as the '04 Pistons is PF, and with Brand's injury it'll be a wait and see kind of thing. Daly is not '04 Big Ben. Not close. Dre is not Finals MVP era Billups. Rip is a WAY better playoff performer than Iggy. Thadeus still has a little learning to do before he's as good as Prince. And let's not forget Larry Brown (Or Mehmet Okur, Corliss, James, and Hunter).

Daly is not '04 Big Ben. Perhaps not. But Dalembert has improved dramatically on the defensive end. It won't show on the stat sheet. But it showed when we made the playoffs. Dalembert was the key to the Sixers defensive engine last year staying out of foul trouble and guarding some of the best forwards in the league like Tim Duncan. Daly is not '04 Big Ben. But it's not like '04 Big Ben was anything special. Dalembert's overall complete game makes him a better center. Dalembert can run the floor, shoot free throws and be an effective weapon when defenses break down. I can't say the same for Wallace.

"On Paper", they have a superior PF (who played 8 games last year), and are worse everywhere else. Let's wait and see how it plays out on the court before comparing them to championship teams of the past. They will be a good team, but let's get real here.

You mention that he played 8 games, yet you neglect how well he performed in those 8 games. You can't be picky .

So are we just ignoring how

Billups '04 >>> Miller '08
Rip '04 > Iggy '08
Prince '04 >> Thad '08
Big Ben '04 >>>> Dalembert '08
Pistons Bench '04 >>>>>>>>>> Sixers Bench '08
Pistons Coach '04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sixers Coach '08

???

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

The only thing Chanucey Billups has on Andre Miller is a 3pt shot. Andre Miller was a consistent PG that sadly never found a good enough basketball team. He had to deal with the defensive mess that was Denver and he was stuck in rebuliding projects like the Cavaliers and Clippers. Billups bounced around untill he happened to meet Larry Brown, who turned his career around 180 degrees.

Iguodala is no LeBron James. But Iguodala's all around game of defense, ball handling and penertration make him one of the top 2 guards in the league. Don't believe me? Only 7 players, just 7 averaged 18/5/5. Hamilton too, benefitted from being in Detroit for his last several years.

Now you KNOW your desperate when you try and compare a young veteran like Prince with a young kid like Thad.

Our bench isn't that far from yours(see the edit to my post). And yes, Maurice Cheeks is inferior to Larry Brown. No need to remind me, I've rehashed it quite often. I've wanted him fired. But he's not that bad. Improved alot as the season went along actually.

[Gordon Bombay]

People need to understand this....Mo Williams is a BALL DOMINANT shoot first shooting guard in a point guards body who plays no defense. That description would work if that player was Allen Iverson or Gilbert Arenas. This is Mo Williams. Hes played on a bad team his entire career. Hes been the #2 option because there was NO ONE else. There is no possible way that this experiment works out for an extended period of time. you will see him and Lebron play well in spurts. You Cleveland fans just better hope its during the playoffs. Lebron will get the ball 80 percent of the time in his hands. Thats too much for Mo to handle.

I find it interesting to note that despite the opposition against me. Cleveland is ranked 3rd worst in odds to finish 2nd, behind Washington and Miami. Washington should get alot more votes. It just takes an average defensive year for that team to be beastly. As for Miami, why are they here? Aside from the Big 3. They have no points, no centers, no bench period.

im at a loss for words with these two

I'm sorry, but you seem totally disintrested in telling these people why their wrong, but you would rather just say like a ignorant 13 year old something along the lines of THESE PEOPLE ARE STUPID OMG!!! and then insert a smiley. Please, explain why you disagree rather then just saying a one liner insulting someone. Greenwithenvy and dedicated can be a little home, but their point (I hope) is that a 7vnth seeded 76ers team with Reggie Evans and Willie GREEN starting at times, is a LOT worse then a team that has iggy and Brand starting in those positions with a great young player in Thaddeus young at the three. The sixers should improve, and will be a top 4 seed in the east.

you guys have all right in the world to be excited about your team (hell im excited about watching your team) but theres an establised tier of three established playoff contenders (boston, detroit and cleveland) in the east and those three teams need to be toppled before teams like philly, orlando, toronto or washington begin to think of themselves as championship contenders. my whole point was that philly and dedicated seemed to be discrediting the playoff success that boston, detroit and cleveland have had to make the 76ers look better. you guys are going to have a great team this year, but tone down the homerism and prove it on the court before proclaiming yourself better than boston, detroit, cleveland and even orlando

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

We ARE better then Cleveland. We don't have to play a single game to prove that. With an aging and crippled front court. Cleveland's perimeter defense will have to play at Detroit Esque levels, which they are not capable of doing. Especially if Mo Williams is their starting point guard. It's analyzing the rosters and the facts. Cleveland is not even close to Philadelphia.

Philadelphia has the low post defense that allows it to play with the Orlando's, Boston, Detroit's. And offensively, they did average 100 points with the worst starting 2 guard and 4 possibly in the league. Our two guard/big man is now Iggy/Brand instead of Green/Evans.

I never discredited ANY of their playoff success. I look at the teams as they are RIGHT NOW. And there is no way on this god green earth you compare Cleveland's(I pray something will stick) roster to Philadelphia's.

[princeofpalace]

The only thing Chanucey Billups has on Andre Miller is a 3pt shot. Andre Miller was a consistent PG that sadly never found a good enough basketball team. He had to deal with the defensive mess that was Denver and he was stuck in rebuliding projects like the Cavaliers and Clippers. Billups bounced around untill he happened to meet Larry Brown, who turned his career around 180 degrees.

Iguodala is no LeBron James. But Iguodala's all around game of defense, ball handling and penertration make him one of the top 2 guards in the league. Don't believe me? Only 7 players, just 7 averaged 18/5/5. Hamilton too, benefitted from being in Detroit for his last several years.

Now you KNOW your desperate when you try and compare a young veteran like Prince with a young kid like Thad.

Our bench isn't that far from yours(see the edit to my post). And yes, Maurice Cheeks is inferior to Larry Brown. No need to remind me, I've rehashed it quite often. I've wanted him fired. But he's not that bad. Improved alot as the season went along actually.

These guys are better SG than Iggy: Kobe, Wade, Martin, Manu, Rip, Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, Vince Carter, McGrady, Jrich. Iggy isnt even top 10 at his position, so no I would definately not call him one of the top 2 guards in the league.

Also- it seems pretty clear that you really didnt watch the 04 Pistons at all since you dont seem to know anything about the team and the players. Mike James and Lindsey Hunter can d up a little? Are u kidding me- those two combined to make one of the best defensive backcourts in the league. Every time they came into the game the wreaked havoc on the opposition. Sixers dont have that kind of defense at all. They had Campbell and Corliss coming off the bench and again their defense is far better than any defense from bigmen coming off the Sixers bench. Also- I see no reason to discount the fact that Okur was on the bench and did contribute. There is really little comparison to Detroits 04 bench and Philis 08 bench it takes a lot of fan wanking to compare 04 Pistons to the Sixers and even more to proclaim that Phili is a better version of them.

In addition 04 Pistons didnt play zone- they played straight up man to man. Did you even watch Detroits 04 championship because it definately sounds like you didnt.

Also- Detroit doesnt have much depth at C but if you get to use Theo Ratliff as your so called defensive stopper at C then there is no reason that Kwame shouldnt come into the discussion because Kwame is a much much better player than Ratliff. He is more mobile, can actually play legit post D and rebound instead of gambling for the shotblock- missing and getting out of position for the board.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Offensively better. But overall, Iggy's defense, his ability to create plays for others. Rip Hamilton is a scorer. Iguodala is a playmaker. You can't make plays with a 4 on 1 defense like the Pistons had with Iggy.

Where is this supposed Mike James 4 years from now? I think he's riding the pine. In Houston or Minnesota, forgot where. Lindsey Hunter? He was still decent, give him props for that but he retired last year. Systematic players are just that, systematic players. Kyle Korver looked better in Utah that had a player in the post. Compared to the Sixers, which had little spacing or guys to set the screen for him.

Mike James, for all intents and purposes is a chucker. An overpaid one at that. But when your backed up by the Sheed brothers, you can easily look good defensively. The brothers were one of the best defensive front courts in the last decade.

Elden Campbell and Corliss Williamson? SERIOUSLY? I don't need to tell you what Reggie's defense and rebounding brought to the team. He was the team's MVP during the suprising 6 games we had with Detroit in the playoffs.

[princeofpalace]

^
Welcome to ignore, once again you obviously did not watch Detroit in 03-04 the fact that you said Detroit played primarily zone during that time tells me all that I need to know. Thanks for playing.

[Silvie Lysandra]

If we're healthy and play decent defense, yeah sure we could be #2. Sadly neither of those things are really associated with Washington basketball lol

We have more ifs (Arenas' health, defensive improvement, improvement of our young bench) than any team in the NBA, but if all or most of those ifs come true, then we could make a lot of noise.

[RTM]

Speculation on how good a team could be means NOTHING. Basketball is a game where winners prove themselves.

As for how the East should shake out behind Boston...

2) Detroit - We haven't lost anybody, our only players who might start decline a bit next year are Sheed and McDyess (luckily we have Maxiell and Amir waiting), and we have the best back court in the NBA (including Stuckey and Afflalo, who are legit threats off the bench). And most importantly, we've proven that we'll get the job done (until the ECF... But that's another story).

3) Orlando - They need back court help and beef up front before they can make the next jump, but they'll improve on last season.

4) Cleveland - LeBron is just THAT good. The team has issues still, but has added some nice pieces.

5) Philadelphia - They have potential, but it's not like Boston last year, who everyone knew would blow up. They have a serious need for outside shooting, and not alot of depth up front. They'll be good though, no one's doubting that.

6) Toronto - Will fight with Washington.

7) Washington - Will fight with Toronto.

8) Miami or Atlanta - Depends on health.

[leevii]

Dedicated_76ers_fan, if you knew anything about anything, then you'd know that implying 03-04 Pistons primarily played zone defense is insanely ignorant.