KB24 vs. LBJ. The gap is closing...

[daddyfivestar]

Just move this thread to player comparisons and let the de-baiting continue there in the appropriate environment.

[bballcool34]

Anyone saying that it's not close is just being ignorant.

They are comparable scorers- Kobe's more versatile, Lebron's more consistent.

That's really a product of their styles- by nature, jumpshooters are more prone to hot/cold streaks than a player who attacks the basket.

Lebron's biggest advantage offensively over Kobe is his style of play- 68% of shots are inside shots- and he is definitely the best finisher in the league. Compare that to Kobe- 45% of shots are inside shots, and he's a far Generally speaking- it's more beneficial to attack the hoop more because a player gets the big men in foul trouble, it opens up passing lanes more than playing on the perimeter does, and it's a more consistent style of play.

Lebron draws fouls more on big men (and more in general- though Kobe makes just as many because he's a superior free throw shooter) because he attacks the hoop, Kobe draws fouls more on perimeter guys with his moves on the perimeter.

And you can't discount the teams- the Lakers are a far superior offensive team- they have Phil Jackson as opposed to an idiot coach, at least offensively, in terms of Mike Brown. They also have more weapons.

At this point in his career, Kobe's job is relatively easier than Lebron's offensively- he carries less of a load, isn't forced to shoot as many shots with the shot clock winding down, is assisted on a far greater percentage of his jumpshots and plays in a far superior offensive system- the triangle- as opposed to isolating at the top of the key play after play.

Lebron is the better passer, has better court vision from what I've seen, and has worse teammates- which does affect his assists- but is offset somewhat by Kobe playing in the triangle, where it's typically harder to rack up assists.

Lebron is the better rebounder easily- because of his size/strength and because he plays some power forward.

Defensively, the gap has closed- Kobe is still the better defender, but not by nearly as much as he used to be- they are about equal as help defenders (the one place where I feel Kobe is not that strong defensively), but Kobe is the better man defender. Lebron can guard the 1 to the 4, Kobe the 1 to the 3. For both, it's a question of when they put the effort forth.

And anyone saying Kobe is more clutch than Lebron hasn't seen Lebron play in a while- I'd say it's about a wash ( IMO Lebron is preferable in most situations because of his ability to get inside, but Kobe's jumpshot can be better in certain situations).


It's interesting to note that in the clutch, Lebron performed better last season by a fair bit: he averaged more points (most in the league), but was still noticeably more efficient from the field, his free throw shooting even went up to about 80%, was less turnover prone, was top in the league in steals and blocks (discounting big men), and he led the league in clutch +/-.

In fact, in the Top 10 of plus/minus, there were 6 Cavaliers (including Lebron). So, it's clear that though Lebron definitely faces more pressure situations than Kobe because of his team, his team comes out on top in the clutch more often than Kobe's does.

Anyways, that's just to show that anyone saying it's not close is kidding themselves: there's a legitimate argument to be made for both players as they best in the league.

[milesfides]

Considering Lebron's perimeter (.399 efg) and free throw shooting (71%) percentages are similar to Lamar Odom's (.400 and 70%, respectively), I really think Lebron has some fairly significant weaknesses in his game he needs to work on.

Kobe might not be the very best in every category, but he certainly isn't a liability in anything.

That's the biggest distinction between Kobe and Lebron.

...along with defense, which is half the game of basketball. According to NBA head coaches, whose views should be regarded as THE MOST authoritative, Lebron isn't in Kobe's league. 4 points compared to 52 points ain't no closing gap.

[bballcool34]

Sure- Kobe has less weaknesses in his game- doesn't mean he's better though. Pierce also has less weaknesses in his game (he can shoot better than Lebron, plays comparable defense because he has so much less offensive pressure).

Kobe is more skilled- but their impacts are relatively even- I'd be interested to see you try and refute that- or any of the stuff I wrote for that matter.

And you can say Lebron shoots Odom like percentages- but that doesn't hurt him in the clutch does it? Or it doesn't hurt him from being a comparable scorer to Kobe albeit less versatile.

And no NBA coaches should not necessarily be taken as the best opinion in this case- in terms of X and Os and plays, absolutely- that's stuff they have more knowledge than an internet poster ever will.

Honestly, that's a cop out answer "So and so said this so it's right"- how much thought do you honestly think goes into a coach's answer when asked a question by an interviewer- it's not like they have the chance to mull it over, look at the stats, look at footage- the opportunity to really think about it/research as we do.

And really, defensive teams? Camby- a below average man defender- is All Defensive 1st Team- big deal.

The NBA defensive teams are largely a product of recognition and hype- Kobe gets on the team constantly (sometimes deservedly, others not) because of his reputation.

Raja Bell has never been a better defender than Artest- but he's been on the team over him the past two years.

Lebron played better defense last season- particularly at the end of games- and I'm not the only one to have noticed it- I've seen a lot of people on these boards talk about it, posters that are generally respected like Tsherkin.

Of course, a large part of rating defense is subjective- just because I say he's become a better defender doesn't mean he has, and just because you say that Kobe is still way better defensively doesn't mean he is.

Either way, as I said before, Lebron has more weaknesses in his game- but that doesn't lessen his impact.

And I'm not saying Lebron's better than Kobe- just saying that it's close- and anyone who thinks otherwise is just biased.

(For example- Yao has less weaknesses than Dwight as a player- but Dwight arguably has the greater impact).

[ChocolateThundr]

I disagree about LeBron being the better passer and having better vision than Kobe

but other than that I dont really care who is better as long as we win the championship next season and continue to win championships....something that seems very likely....I rather have Kobe be 'one of the guys' than "The Flying Warrior"....unless we absolutely needs him to be. I dont like the image of "The best player in the world" and the attitude that it brings. I just hope Kobe and the lakers play hard, play together, and play defense consistently. Let LeBron be the best player in the world and the richest athelete in the world. I dont care, I just want the Lakers to win the big one.

As a Lakers fan, I have to admit, I liked the way Celtics played, none of the Big 3 were clear superstars and all of them gave into each other. They (the whole team) play together, they play smart, they play D, and they play hard. Thats the 'aura' I hope for the Lakers. I liked the Celtic's aura until idiot Pierce went ahead and proclaimed himself the "Best Player in the world"

[Benedict Miller]

magicfan... So you're saying Lebron had a better supporting cast than Kobe? Thats ridiculous, I can't even argue with you anymore..

[Gerald3Wallace]

lol

odom
bynum1st half
gasol second half
fisher
sasha
farmar

or

big Z
gooden
hughes
damon jones
gibson

pretty easy choice if u ask me

[Erik Eleven]

Both are great.

The gap started closing the day LBJ was born. He's a beast of a physical specimen, and a brilliantly bright and talented player. So is Kobe.

We'll see about the amount of rings, but I think when both their careers are over, LBJ will have surpassed Kobe in most other categories. He's just a freak of nature.

[B-Scott]

I think Lebron has more of a realistic excuse for shooting poorly against thew Celtics than Kobe. Bron has absolutely no offensive talent on his team. Im shocked they even took Boston to Game 7. If anything he gets triple teamed probably more because nobody respects anyone on the Cavs. Just imabine Lebron/ Gasol pick and rolls. Lebron gets to the basket more than Kobe so Bron/Gasol would probably be more of a dominant combo than Kobe/Gasol.

Id still favor Kobe because his fundamentals and footwork are better along with having a better jumper but the gap is definetely closing.

[dm17415]

If the Lakers don't win it all this year, LBJ is clearly the best player in the world. Can you imagine LBJ with Gasol, Bynum, and Odom? Would Kobe make that Cavs team made up of Szcerbiak and declined Ben Wallace better?? Questions that you should ask yourselves and honestly answer. Lebron is a dominant force, can you just picture him in that Lakers uniform?

Says who? you. Putting lebron with anyone doesn't guarantee anything. I am willing to bet that kobe with the current cavs team would have beaten the celtics. Like I said in an earlier post,if lebron had just shot 40% like kobe did,the cavs would have beaten the celtics.

Kobe wasn't able to beat the Celtics with the current Lakers team, what makes you think he can beat the C's with the worse Cavs team.

[ChocolateThundr]

Cavs played better defense but I disagree about Kobe having a better chance, But i would pay to see that though

[kobeaki]

Im not here to bash, lets get that straight. But is this what happens when your team loses in the finals?? comparing whos the best player. how about comparing who is the best team player? remember this guy names MJ, well he was a great individual player but he became the best player in the world when he became the best team player!

gee thanks..

But your post is very much here to bash.

No, this is not what happens when your team loses in the finals. ( bash #1) This is a message board where discussions take place. ( says the guy whose team finally made it back to the finals)

The MJ and team player comment is ( bash #2) Kobe rather you want to believe it or not is a good team player. ( when he has help around him) on top of that he has grown up since he first came into the league.

Bottomline: this is not about losing to your celtics and not about MJ. This is just a discussion.. either stay on topic or stay out. Is that straight enough for you?

did i hit a nerve? let me point out bash#1. lol. the team that finally made it back to the finals...for their 17th title. thats not bad.

bash#2. if you think kobe has grown up think again. before the season even started last year he was already ranting about a trade. im a laker for life. no forget i said that. ok i changed my mind again. does that sound like a mature kobe? lakers should be glad to make it to the finals, they werent even supposed to go that far. To say kobe matured because his team went to the finals is absurd.

bottom line. i came here for some friendly "discussion". I love basketball and i appreciate kobes talent but matured, i dont htink so.

to the bolded...so did paul pierce....

[Baseline Runner]

Barkley 8/4 59- 83 .711 7- 8 .875 19- 26 .731 33/ 4.1 144/ 18.0 19 1 21
Jordan 8/8 51-113 .451 4- 19 .211 13- 19 .684 19/ 2.4 119/ 14.9 38 4 37
Malone 8/4 40- 62 .645 0- 0 .000 24- 32 .750 42/ 5.3 104/ 13.0 9 5 12
Mullin 8/2 39- 63 .619 14- 26 .538 11- 14 .786 13/ 1.6 103/ 12.9 29 2 14
Drexler 8/3 37- 64 .578 6- 21 .286 4- 10 .400 24/ 3.0 84/ 10.5 29 2 19
Ewing 8/4 33- 53 .623 0- 0 .000 10- 16 .625 42/ 5.3 76/ 9.5 3 15 7
Pippen 8/3 28- 47 .596 5- 13 .385 11- 15 .733 17/ 2.1 72/ 9.0 47 1 23
Robinson 8/4 27- 47 .574 0- 0 .000 18- 26 .692 33/ 4.1 72/ 9.0 7 12 14
Bird 8/3 25- 48 .521 9- 27 .333 8-10 .800 30/ 3.8 67/ 8.4 14 2 14
Johnson 6/5 17- 30 .567 6- 13 .462 8-10 .800 14/ 2.3 48/ 8.0 33 0 8
Laettner 8/0 9- 20 .450 2- 6 .333 18- 20 .900 20/ 2.5 38/ 4.8 3 3 8
Stockton 4/

Magic, Jordan, Stockton, Malone, Pippen, Laettner, Barkely, Bird, Drexler... one of these names doesn't belong.