Starting PF Trade Thread - Ideas?

[JMillott]

But we have no conceivable way to acquire Wilcox. Seatlle doesn't want Dudley or Morrison with Durant and Green around. There is no first round pick next year.

How much protection do they have on the pick to keep it from going to the Nuggets?

[chabber]

'09: lottery (14th or higher)
'10: 12th
'11: 10th
'12: 8th
'13: 3rd
'14: no protection

Only thing I've ever seen but i'm not sure if that is correct.

[Walt Cronkite]

Either way, we wouldn't be able to trade for Wilcox with the 2009 1st, or the 2010th, so it would be 2011+ and I'm not sure how that works.

Say we finish 12th in this upcoming season... we could THEN trade the 09 first for Wilcox, but he'd be a fa, so that'd be stupid.

I know you can't trade picks in consecutive drafts, but how does that work really? Can we trade a future 1st until the pick that Denver still owns has become unprotected?

[spectre_]

I wonder if we could trade next year's pick if it did fall in the lottery. Since we'd continue to owe Denver one that could possibly be considered dealing 2 consecutive picks couldn't it? I don't know for sure but it wouldn't surprise me if it was prohibited.

It might just be a matter of trading the pick during the draft vs. right before...or actually selecting the player and then trading him.

Each team in the league is NOT required to make at least one selection during the entire draft, HOWEVER THE league rules prohibit a team from trading away future first-round picks in consecutive years. This rule was created partially as a reaction to the practices of the Cleveland Cavaliers in the early 1980s. Ted Stepien, who owned the team from 1980 to 1983, made a series of trades for players of questionable value that cost the team several years of first-round picks. The trades nearly destroyed the franchise; the NBA pressured Stepien into selling the team, and in order to get a solid local owner (Gordon Gund), the league had to sweeten the deal by giving the Cavaliers several future bonus draft picks.

Note, however, that this rule only requires each team to have a first-round pick, not necessarily their pick.

http://www.armchairgm.com/NBA_Draft

Also:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#71

[JMillott]

'09: lottery (14th or higher)
'10: 12th
'11: 10th
'12: 8th
'13: 3rd
'14: no protection

Only thing I've ever seen but i'm not sure if that is correct.

That is absolutely insane that they would ever have less then lottery protection on a pick they traded to get the 20th pick.

WTF was Jordan thinking? That is the type of trade you right in very stern langauge that if the pick doesn't change hands by such and such date that it becomes a second round pick and 3 million in cash.

You never ever make a deal that can cost you a top five pick four or five years down the line because you simply never know what can happen in that timeframe and for something as weak as the 20th pick good god he should be fired for that right now.

[Walt Cronkite]

MJ should be fired from his ownership position? I'm pretty sure the general manager, Rod Higgins, is the one you'd consider firing...

[BigSlam]

'09: lottery (14th or higher)
'10: 12th
'11: 10th
'12: 8th
'13: 3rd
'14: no protection

Only thing I've ever seen but i'm not sure if that is correct.

That is absolutely insane that they would ever have less then lottery protection on a pick they traded to get the 20th pick.

WTF was Jordan thinking? That is the type of trade you right in very stern langauge that if the pick doesn't change hands by such and such date that it becomes a second round pick and 3 million in cash.

You never ever make a deal that can cost you a top five pick four or five years down the line because you simply never know what can happen in that timeframe and for something as weak as the 20th pick good god he should be fired for that right now.

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

By 2011 we are a top seeded playoff team and the Nuggets get a pick later in the 1st than the #20 that we took from them and everyone is patting Jordan on the back?

But you are a glass half empty guy - right? Unless of course it comes to judging Chris Wilcox's worth.

[JMillott]

Its not a matter of glass half empty or glass half full at all, you don't allow a trade for the 20th pick in any draft to have the potential to cost your team a lottery pick down the road never mind let it have a chance to cost a top five pick.

If saying that Chris Wilcox being able to give a team like that Bobcats 15 PPG, 9 RPG and solid play from the PF position while giving them a 3rd offensive option in the starting five offended you then get a grip.

The difference between having a solid NBA starter at PF or having to send out a D-League calibur at that position would be huge. A solid starter like Chris Wilcox much like any decent starter is normally worth about five wins a year while having a terrible player at a position is usully worth about 5 extra losses.

Bobcats were basically a 30 win team last year.

Removing an awful hole from the lineup at PF wtih a serviceable player would likely get them to 35 wins, Chris Wilcox is a solid/good player so he should make them around a 40 team in my opinion.

Removing an awful player from the lineup at PG Jeff McInnis and replacing him with expected serviceable play from from the Felton/Augustin combo would remove the 5 games that having a bum like McInnis likely cost them putting them around 45 wins or so projected.

The last five wins would come from having a great coach instead of a complete ****ing idiot like Sam Vincent who had no buisness being an NBA coach.

[BigSlam]

Chris Wilcox, the guy who hasn't played a full season of NBA basketball in 7 seasons (and short of 1 season hasn't even come close) and who is an UFA at the end of next season so he could walk and leave us with nothing is worth what he is worth - and that aint a top three protected pick.

I like Wilcox, but you are talking him up to be more than he is. If he is that great, why would you want to trade him? Outside of Collison you don't really have an option at the 4.

Chris Wilcox is a role player, and role players are not worth top 3 protected picks. Wilcox isn't the piece that we are missing and we would survive just fine without him.

[JMillott]

The reason why I said only top three protection on a trade for Chris Wilcox is quite easy to explain and actually has something to do with why I just ripped Michael Jordan on the trade with Denver.

You want to control when you deal a pick, with Chris Wilcox the Bobcats would either make the playoffs or just barely miss them. They don't really need a bottom of the lottery player right now or really any more youth unless they were to get lucky and move way up via the lottery.

I don't think the Bobcats would have any trouble retaining Chris Wilcox as a free agent next summer but he would be cheaper to keep as a free agent in my opinion then he would be for them to sign to come to Charlotte without having already been on the team.

Notice how your Bobcats haven't been able to sign a single meaningful free agent but haven't had trouble keeping players once they reach free agent status?

That is because the preception of the team is still as that of a crappy expansion team but the players that have broken through with the Bobcats haven't appeared to be in any hurry to leave?

I'm thinking about it like this Chris Wilcox is in the calibur of free agent that might consider coming to the Bobcats but only if they were to overpay him to do so.

If they traded for him on the other hand showing how much the like him and then proceeding to go out and either compete for a playoff spot or make the playoffs as I suspect they would they could likely re-sign him to a more reasonable contract and also have removed the stigma of being a crappy expansion team by making the playoffs.

I know it doesn't seam fair and as hometown Charlotte fans it might be hard to understand that you guys should have to overpay to get free agents but its still the truth. Its why Michael Jordan had to trade to get a player like Jason Richardson because signing a player of his calibur would've cost a max contract.

Once the Bobcats make the playoffs and more importantly win a series at some point then they are just a regular NBA franchise in the minds of the players and agents.

[JMillott]

By the way i'm not all that big of a Chris Wilcox fan its still a simple matter of finding a player that fits and is possible for the Bobcats to get.

Jason Richardson isn't a great 1st option
Gerald Wallace isn't a great 2nd option
Emeka Okafor isn't a great 3rd option
Raymond Felton isn't a great 3th option

The Bobcats lack any type of true frontline talent because they pissed away chances at better players in the 2006 and to a lesser extent 2007 drafts. For them to become a viable playoff team they need to get it done with solid players at every position and if at all possible turn Okafor and Felton/Augustin into some of the better 4th and 5th options in the NBA.

Jason Richardson as a 1st option is solid
Gerald Wallace as a 2nd option is solid
Chris Wilcox as a 3rd option is solid
Emeka Okafor as a 4th option is great
Raymond Felton/DJ Augustin as a 5th option is possibly good

[e4Nf6]

Jason Richardson isn't a great 1st option
Gerald Wallace isn't a great 2nd option

Jason Richardson as a 1st option is solid
Gerald Wallace as a 2nd option is solid

It's all in how you look at it I guess....

[Walt Cronkite]

Stop saying Michael Jordan is the GM, it really limits yer respekability! Aaaiiight?

[JMillott]

Michael Jordan doesn't have to be the GM in title for everybody to know that he is in fact the man who makes the final choice on all major basketball moves. Rod Higgins is his guy and i'm sure he does 90% of the leg work on everything but i'm quite sure he has to clear it all through MJ.

[Walt Cronkite]

He's an owner that was the GOAT, so whenever a big move is going to be made he gets to say yes or no. As a Bobcat fan, it's incredibly annoying for posters to come in and attribute everything that this franchise has done wrong to MJ--there are plenty of people that deserve blame for how this franchise has been mishandled.

So you're sure that Higgins gets Denver to agree to trade the 20th pick for a future protected first and MJ says agrees... so let's blame MJ for not keeping the pick protected top 5 protected in 2013 and 14? If we're not just a Chris Wilcox caliber player away from the playoffs, but from approaching a 50 win team, isn't it much more likely that we lose this pick in 09, 10, 11, or 12?

Can you give me an example of a situation when a team traded a 1st for a future first but it turned into a second and 3m?

[Bassman]

No matter the protection or lack thereof, the result is what matters.

We used that 20th pick on a major reach, a project PF who so far has all the makings of a big man BUST! I'm honestly trying to decide if Hollins is actually not our worst big anymore (discounting the always injured May). Well, sadly, that answer is confirmed. Ajinca is horrible, not just my opinion, but the take from several observers of his stock prior to the draft and his performance at Vegas.

This is why we cringe at the current line-up. A broken McMay, an underachieving soph in Davidson, Ajinca the manchild and Hollins the diminshed. Woe is us!

[Pointguard#1]

I guess I have been mistaken all of these years of watching nba basketball. I was under the impression that protection always wears off after a few years. I know I have never heard of a pick that was owed more than five years without becoming a lottery pick.

That being said the logic that the guy used to defame Jordan also works against his own trade. You can't say that Jordan should not allow the protection to wear off, because anything can happen. Then turn around and say that a top 3 protected trade for Wilcox is ok, because he automatically makes us a playoff team. Anything can still happen. If we trade our pick only top 3 protected, and we then loose Okafor, Gerald, or JRich early in the season we will really look like stupid. Both trades are gambles as all trades are.

Jordan's, Higgin's, or whoever's trade was not stupid. Most likely we will be a very solid team by the time the lottery protection wears off of that pick. All of our heavy hitters are finally locked up long term. They will continue to get better for at least another four years. We will continue to add a player here and a player there. Despite what any of you nay sayers may think this team is very impressive for a four year old expansion team. I am sorry we did not land a Lou Alcindor or a Shaq like the teams who have done better than us, but the draft hasn't been that kinds.

So instead of crying about what we don't have how about a little enthusiasm for the fact that we have four very good players committed to Charlotte for a long time. We have a promising young bench, and one of the greatest coaches of our time taking the helm.