Odom as the initiator? can it work?

[Lost Angel]

What if the Lakers played Odom at point guard?


He can:

1. Handle the rock
2. See over the defense
3. Cause mismatches
4. Give the Lakers a chance to start Sasha (who might be better starting)


plus, it's not like he has to play 48 minutes a game at that spot. Not even 25 minutes there. Just to start the games, for maybe like the 1st quarter or so.


Bynum
Gasol
Kobe
Sasha
Odom


then Fisher can sub in for Sasha (keeping the Fisherman a little fresher for the playoffs). We should try to utilize Odom at all 5 positions on the floor. Switching up his roles throughout the game might cause problems for the other teams defense.

[dockingsched]

its really not about positions, rather roles.

can you elaborate on how it causes more mismatches? you can't just call lamar your pg and expect other teams to all of a sudden put their pg on him.

[Dexmor]

It clearly cause mismatches because you would have a height advantage everynight. It doesn't matter if they keep the sf on Odom because that would mean there would be a pg on Kobe or Sasha which is a mismatch but also you would have a small fast pg to put on the Paul's and Williams.
The probably is Phil wouldn't do it. He keeps Kobe as the pg which sucks because he has to many responsibilites.
If Odom could guard the pg's which he can't then there are potential for real mismatches.

[Lost Angel]

its really not about positions, rather roles.

can you elaborate on how it causes more mismatches? you can't just call lamar your pg and expect other teams to all of a sudden put their pg on him.

Well, my proposal calls for starting games with a line up of:


Bynum
Gasol
Bryant
Sasha
Odom


i figure the opposing team has to put their best wing defender on Kobe. then, the point guard will probably guard Sasha, who will have a height advantage. Odom will be guarded by whoever remains.

for example,


if we play Detroit, then

Prince is on Kobe

Rip is on Sasha

and Billups is on Odom


ill explain later in detail im at work. sorry for a general response

[dockingsched]

its really not about positions, rather roles.

can you elaborate on how it causes more mismatches? you can't just call lamar your pg and expect other teams to all of a sudden put their pg on him.

i figure the opposing team has to put their best wing defender on Kobe. then, the point guard will probably guard Sasha, who will have a height advantage. Odom will be guarded by whoever remains.

how is that different than the current lineup of fisher/bryant/odom/gasol/bynum?

[hermes]

its really not about positions, rather roles.

can you elaborate on how it causes more mismatches? you can't just call lamar your pg and expect other teams to all of a sudden put their pg on him.

what if we ask them nicely?

[TruSkool]

im sure the pistons would atleast switch up and put rip on odom and billups on sasha....
the reason teams dont run such formations because other teams arent stupid enough to keep playing pg on pg and sf on sf...

if odom is playing our pg, that doesnt mean billups, nash, bibby, etc etc will guard him. it means rip, grant hill and josh smith will guard him...so its better to just use our "big 3" of odom, gasol and bynum in the post where real mismatch problems can happen, instead of fiddling around with odom playing the 1.

but i do agree that starting sasha at the 2 and kobe at the 1 and bringing fisher off the bench wouldnt be a bad idea...leave odom gasol and bynum in their respective fields.

[Kilroy]

It can work... It will be tried... And like every other offensive scheme imaginable, it will work well against some teams and fail against others.

It won't be some magical ground-breaking look that no team will have an answer for like you find in video games.

As to miss-matches, Odom creates miss-match problems wherever he plays... This would be no different. If he can develop a jumper, at his length, he would be very hard to defend. It would require teams to put a long SF or PF on him. But if they put a PF on him way out at the top of the key, he'll blow by them and face little interior D on the way to the Center.

Even if they just put the SF on him, it pulls that body way up top and leaves fewer big bodys down low to defend mid range, which should let Kobe and Sasha hit those 10ft J's all day.

It would also be hard to double-team anybody on our team with Odom occupying the SF... That would leave Pau and Bynum facing the PF and C and no one bigger than an SG or G to help defend.

So as long as the team we face has a defender at each position that can handle Kobe, Bynum, Gasol, and Odom, 1 on 1, having Odom play the 'Point' won't have much of an effect.

But if you start to think that Kobe, Bynum, and even Gasol, might be VERY hard to handle by a single defender, then you might start seeing a lot of match-up problems.

At least that's how I see it. And I hope I do... See it this season.

[Gerald3Wallace]

odom is easily the most unselfish guy on the team...so him being an initiator is not a problem.

[Luxury]

Been there, done that.

What year in what position under what role was Odom the most efficient? K thx.

[Danny Darko]

As to miss-matches, Odom creates miss-match problems wherever he plays... This would be no different. If he can develop a jumper, at his length, he would be very hard to defend. It would require teams to put a long SF or PF on him. But if they put a PF on him way out at the top of the key, he'll blow by them and face little interior D on the way to the Center.

Even if they just put the SF on him, it pulls that body way up top and leaves fewer big bodys down low to defend mid range, which should let Kobe and Sasha hit those 10ft J's all day.

It would also be hard to double-team anybody on our team with Odom occupying the SF... That would leave Pau and Bynum facing the PF and C and no one bigger than an SG or G to help defend.

So as long as the team we face has a defender at each position that can handle Kobe, Bynum, Gasol, and Odom, 1 on 1, having Odom play the 'Point' won't have much of an effect.

But if you start to think that Kobe, Bynum, and even Gasol, might be VERY hard to handle by a single defender, then you might start seeing a lot of match-up problems.

At least that's how I see it. And I hope I do... See it this season.

The part I worry about is the outside jumper... basically no matter what if he doesn't hit his jumper and adapt spacing-wise then we have a clogged paint. The Celtics loaded the paint against us. Having Sasha wasn't enough to provide spacing or make them respect our shooters, we need another guy otherwise they will clogg the lane, double Kobe and live with whatever Sasha does.

[Throwback24]

odom is easily the most unselfish guy on the team...so him being an initiator is not a problem.

I like your sig I wouldn't play Odom in the back court, I'd prefer he go to the bench to be honest.

[Dexmor]

He isn't that quick to be honest. For example he is a tweener because he is truley to slow to guard alot of the sf's in the league.

[Kilroy]

The part I worry about is the outside jumper... basically no matter what if he doesn't hit his jumper and adapt spacing-wise then we have a clogged paint. The Celtics loaded the paint against us. Having Sasha wasn't enough to provide spacing or make them respect our shooters, we need another guy otherwise they will clogg the lane, double Kobe and live with whatever Sasha does.

Yep, that's the whole thing... The whole argument that Odom can't 'play SF'...

I think it's actually his natural position but he's always played more of a slasher (to the left) at that position and hasn't really been asked to be a spot-up shooter. He's shown that he can hit the outside shot and doesn't really have a bad shot, but that's what it comes down to. If he can hit spot up jumpers from beyond the top of the key, the latest phase of the experiment can work, if he can't, the whole thing is destined to fail. If he can't keep defenders honest outside, he actually breaks down the Offense. Like if he just pulled up, out of position.

But to stay positive, if he can keep his man honest ouside, he can dish to Kobe or Sasha, or use his length to see inside and feed Pau or Bynum.

His biggest challenge might actually be keeping the triangle flowing... He has had enough time in the program to figure out the Triangle but as facilitator, he has to read the D and react within the Tri. That's why we needed to get Fish back... It takes some practice...

The good thing is that I think our team is formidable enough that if he isn't a master at it untill the Finals, I think we'll be fine, as long as he's at least servicable in the roll. Barring injuries of course...

[lakerboy]

anyways,besides what line we put out there i want to know what happens to vlades minutes and how many does he get

[milesfides]

No, because he hasn't shown the ability to do it on a consistent basis, and probably won't, since making halfcourt decisions is not his forte.

It's also somewhat irrelevant since Kobe and Gasol will increasingly be the playmakers on this team, especially when Bynum returns, pushing Gasol into the high post passer. The Lakers won't suddenly have Odom a primary facilitator, since Kobe and Gasol have shown a far greater proficiency at doing so.

Odom will be required to be able to shoot and defend.

[laduane1]

I rather see a true point guard bring up the ball, LO might work once in a while, but he might get it picked and it would slow down the break.

[Slava]

its really not about positions, rather roles.

can you elaborate on how it causes more mismatches? you can't just call lamar your pg and expect other teams to all of a sudden put their pg on him.

Well, my proposal calls for starting games with a line up of:


Bynum
Gasol
Bryant
Sasha
Odom


i figure the opposing team has to put their best wing defender on Kobe. then, the point guard will probably guard Sasha, who will have a height advantage. Odom will be guarded by whoever remains.

for example,


if we play Detroit, then

Prince is on Kobe

Rip is on Sasha

and Billups is on Odom


ill explain later in detail im at work. sorry for a general response

How about Billups on Kobe
Rip on Sasha
Kwame/Amir Johnson on Bynum
Sheed on Pau
and Prince on Odom?

[Lost Angel]

Kobe would eat Billups alive.

come on now, Detroit wouldn't do that. Billups would foul out

[tayzer]

Odom is not a good decision maker. He will run people over or people will not guard his jumpshot. The dude is a better power foward.