Thompson should not have traded Corey Williams

[Neusch23]

When this summer has TT showed us that he was smart.

If anything this summer has lost it. Nearly every good thing he has done have been over shadowed by his ego moves.

By returning the same team as last year we would have been a condender for the Super Bowl.

Now we are thin on our D line, and lack experience at the most important offensive position.

While we will still be a good team, and could win the division, this season will not be what it could have been.

[paulpressey25]

I would have drafted Quinn and kept Williams and said so on both counts at the time....didn't need to be able to predict the future to call that one.

That being said, the last two years at this time a number of us (myself included) start getting nervous and we second guess what we think are the obvious Thompson "mistakes". Meanwhile the season starts and about five TT moves we didn't expect to work, pan out great.

Heck, TT sent our most talented WR and RB packing in the form of Javon Walker and Ahman Green and we all screamed about how Favre was being deprived of his "weapons" and now we've got better young guys in Jennings and Ryan Grant. In Ted I trust until proven wrong with a bad losing season on the field.

[ReasonablySober]

I would have had no problem going any number of directions other than Harrell. Had he done that and signed Williams I'd have been perfectly happy, too.

Drafting Quinn is an entirely different matter. I've got nothing against Notre Dame or Quinn, but there was nothing about him that screamed franchise QB. Same with Matty Leinart. If either fell to the second then that's great; scoop 'em up. But we weren't talking about Carson Palmer or Peyton Manning.

[dedned]

Drafting Quinn is an entirely different matter. I've got nothing against Notre Dame or Quinn, but there was nothing about him that screamed franchise QB. Same with Matty Leinart. If either fell to the second then that's great; scoop 'em up. But we weren't talking about Carson Palmer or Peyton Manning.

You could say that about Rodgers too. We didn't wait till the second round for him.

[ReasonablySober]

Drafting Quinn is an entirely different matter. I've got nothing against Notre Dame or Quinn, but there was nothing about him that screamed franchise QB. Same with Matty Leinart. If either fell to the second then that's great; scoop 'em up. But we weren't talking about Carson Palmer or Peyton Manning.

You could say that about Rodgers too. We didn't wait till the second round for him.

We didn't have a QB of the future on the roster at that point.

[xTitan]

When this summer has TT showed us that he was smart.

If anything this summer has lost it. Nearly every good thing he has done have been over shadowed by his ego moves.

By returning the same team as last year we would have been a condender for the Super Bowl.

Now we are thin on our D line, and lack experience at the most important offensive position.

While we will still be a good team, and could win the division, this season will not be what it could have been.

Why is that??? the experience at that offensive position was NOT going to take you to a Superbowl, we have been through this ad nauseum...Favre has been a bad playoff QB and he has been terrible the past 3 years after Thanksgiving, that is a simple fact, choose to ignore it if you like. If Rodgers gets this team to the playoffs, I would feel much better with him leading the team in the playoffs, the unknown in this case is far better than the known.

The question with Corey williams is, is he worth the deal he signed and personally I don't think he is. If it was a matter of keeping Williams around for a decent salary I am in, but he is NOT a full time player, he does not defend the run well at all and when he was asked to play major starter minutes at the end of last season he failed and his only strength, pass rushing, was greatly diminished. The end of last season told the Packers that Williams is nowhere near an elite tackle or even an every down type of player, so the money he was given was not warranted in the Packers eyes, and I agree.

[xTitan]

I would take Rodgers over Quinn anyday, so I would have NEVER drafted Quinn, wouldn't even have been a thought. I wish we could see the Harrell that was dominant at Tenn. when he was healthy, unfortunately you take a risk sometimes on player that falls who has a ton of talent but has had some issues in college, whether it be physical or personal, to this point the gamble has not paid off but who knows about the furtue.......other than brett Favre who is all knowing.

[rilamann]

When this summer has TT showed us that he was smart.

If anything this summer has lost it. Nearly every good thing he has done have been over shadowed by his ego moves.

By returning the same team as last year we would have been a condender for the Super Bowl.

Now we are thin on our D line, and lack experience at the most important offensive position.

While we will still be a good team, and could win the division, this season will not be what it could have been.

I agree that had we brought back the same team from last year (Favre & CW) and maybe signed a vetran piece (Jason Taylor for example) we would have a great shot at winning the super bowl this year.

Matter of fact in my opinion I belive we would be the favorite,i'd bet the house we woulda won it all this year had those moves taken place.

It would have reminded me of after the 1995 season,the Packers where a fairly young team in '95 and came so close vs Dallas in the NFC title game,you just knew that with the same group of guys comming back the Lombardi trophy would be theirs in 1996.

I remember after that title game vs Dallas everyone was so upset but I remember telling anyone who would listen not to worry but because there was zero doubt in my mind the Packers would win it all in '96.

Like I said I would have had that exact same feeling going into this season had we brought back last year's team.

With that said had we brought back Favre & CW and signed a Jason Taylor it probably would hurt us in the future after the 2008 season.

CW while a nice piece would have been overpaied,Jaon Taylor probably has one good season left in him but after that could become washed up at any minute and you'd then be paying him to do nothing.Obviously had Favre come back for one more run there was a good chance Brohm would be the Packers starting QB of the future.

It would have been one of those situations where your putting all your eggs in one basket and comprimising(sp) your future to make one serious run at winning the whole thing.

TT opted for taking a small step back this year in exchange for maybe a 4 or 5 year window of contending.

I trust TT so im fine with what he did the big question is how fine will I and all the other Packer fans be with these decisions 4 or 5 years from now.Becuase untill then we wont know.

If Rodgers becomes a rock solid starting NFL QB and we win a ring or 2 two then its great.

If not and if we dont even as much as sniff another NFC Championsip game in the next 4 or 5 years we will all be pissed at TT for not letting Favre make one final run with the Packers back in 2008.

My gut feeling to sum up the whole thing is that Rodgers will never been as good as Favre,but Rodgers just might retire with more super bowl rings than Favre.

[Neusch23]

good post, and I agree.

Jason Taylor would have been the Key, IMO. All of those rumors this summer, there was a reason that there was a buzz, and there was a reason he commented that he didn't want to come here and go through another QB rebuild.

As I stated in another thread, I believe what I have heard from more than one person assocated with the team when they tell me that Taylor would have been here for CW's second round pick IF Brett came back. That was in June. TT had his mind made up a long time ago that he was done with Brett as soon as he retired.

Me. I would rather one shot at a Super Bowl, than a team hoping to make the playoffs.

Just not having Brett, and now with all of the baggage our team has, plus injuries, I believe we are going to win half of the games we won last year, and miss the playoffs. I know that isn't want TT wants, but I see no way, with our schedule that we are even a .500 team this season. If Brett would have stayed retired and never had our issues this summer, then I would have said 9-7 and the playoffs IF that won us the division. But, no way this season unless we are very, very lucky and stay injury free.

I hope we do better than I think, lord knows as a business owner near GB, when the Packers are winning, we are booming, but I don't see it for this season. Which hurts because of what could have been. OH well, Jerry Reisndorff did the same thing to the Bulls 10 years ago, and blew it up. Since this is the NFL and not the NBA I am sure we will be back to the playoffs quicker than the Bulls were.

[El Duderino]

I would have had no problem going any number of directions other than Harrell. Had he done that and signed Williams I'd have been perfectly happy, too.

Drafting Quinn is an entirely different matter. I've got nothing against Notre Dame or Quinn, but there was nothing about him that screamed franchise QB. Same with Matty Leinart.

I saw Leinart's last two games, man is he terrible

Career backup or default starter on a bad team

[El Duderino]

When this summer has TT showed us that he was smart.

If anything this summer has lost it. Nearly every good thing he has done have been over shadowed by his ego moves.

By returning the same team as last year we would have been a condender for the Super Bowl.

Now we are thin on our D line, and lack experience at the most important offensive position.

While we will still be a good team, and could win the division, this season will not be what it could have been.

The question with Corey williams is, is he worth the deal he signed and personally I don't think he is. If it was a matter of keeping Williams around for a decent salary I am in, but he is NOT a full time player, he does not defend the run well at all and when he was asked to play major starter minutes at the end of last season he failed and his only strength, pass rushing, was greatly diminished. The end of last season told the Packers that Williams is nowhere near an elite tackle or even an every down type of player, so the money he was given was not warranted in the Packers eyes, and I agree.

Name one every down defensive tackle on our roster?

Pickett can only play run downs, zero pass rush ability

Jolly has a bit of pass rush abilities, but ask him to play anywhere near the snaps Williams did last year and if you think Williams wore down as the season got late, Jolly would be cramping up left and right and sucking on oxygen every time he came off the field by the 6th-7th game.

Williams is by no means a Pickett on run downs, but he would look like Gilbert Brown compared to Jenkins vs the run at DT. Jenkins has some interior pass rush skills at tackle, but he's a folding chair vs the run.

Harrell is always in street clothes

Cole couldn't pressure the passer if an offensive line was made up of cornerbacks

Williams was the closest thing to an every down DT we had and now don't have on the roster, hence why he was the leader in snaps at the position.

[Bernman]

When this summer has TT showed us that he was smart.

If anything this summer has lost it. Nearly every good thing he has done have been over shadowed by his ego moves.

By returning the same team as last year we would have been a condender for the Super Bowl.

Now we are thin on our D line, and lack experience at the most important offensive position.

While we will still be a good team, and could win the division, this season will not be what it could have been.

Favre....Bratwurst....Favre....Polish Sassage....Favre....Beer........Favre....Favre...Favre....Favre

[Thunder Muscle]

There wasn't a risk in giving Corey WIlliams a huge free agent contract?

Exactly. I remember reading last year that there were some within the organization that believed this was Cletidus Hunt in the making. Once he got paid, it'd be downhill....

[Bernman]

There wasn't a risk in giving Corey WIlliams a huge free agent contract?

Exactly. I remember reading last year that there were some within the organization that believed this was Cletidus Hunt in the making. Once he got paid, it'd be downhill....

I think that's a risk you run with pretty much every defensive tackle. Carrying all that weight around in usually stocky frames is no small feat and unless you have an extra incentive, it's much more natural to "loaf". Read scouting reports for DT prospects and half the time they say "inconsistent motor", "lazy", etc. Consistently good DT's really have to have a passion for football.

For the record, I don't disagree with the decision to not re-sign Williams. However, once Harrell was out indefinitely, TT should have pursued another rotation caliber DT. I think his reluctance is because it would be like implying he was wrong about Harrell in the first place. And he doesn't want to bring in a replacement, even short-term, who would hinder Harrell's development, making it more likely he'd have to admit he was wrong when he made the Harrell pick. He won't bring in a capable veteran backup QB, when both his draft picks look ill prepared to step in if called upon, for the same reasons. The downside of having a really smart GM is most have colossal egos, which sometimes prevent them from making decisions in the best interest of the team in ALL cases. Overall TT is definitely a good GM, but he'll never be great if he's not willing to acknowledge when he's wrong.

[eagle13]

There wasn't a risk in giving Corey WIlliams a huge free agent contract?

Exactly. I remember reading last year that there were some within the organization that believed this was Cletidus Hunt in the making. Once he got paid, it'd be downhill....

I think that's a risk you run with pretty much every defensive tackle. Carrying all that weight around in usually stocky frames is no small feat and unless you have an extra incentive, it's much more natural to "loaf". Read scouting reports for DT prospects and half the time they say "inconsistent motor", "lazy", etc. Consistently good DT's really have to have a passion for football.

For the record, I don't disagree with the decision to not re-sign Williams. However, once Harrell was out indefinitely, TT should have pursued another rotation caliber DT. I think his reluctance is because it would be like implying he was wrong about Harrell in the first place. And he doesn't want to bring in a replacement, even short-term, who would hinder Harrell's development, making it more likely he'd have to admit he was wrong when he made the Harrell pick. He won't bring in a capable veteran backup QB, when both his draft picks look ill prepared to step in if called upon, for the same reasons. The downside of having a really smart GM is most have colossal egos, which sometimes prevent them from making decisions in the best interest of the team in ALL cases. Overall TT is definitely a good GM, but he'll never be great if he's not willing to acknowledge when he's wrong.

All seems true. In TT's defense he did admit he may have made a mistake at G his first year. That's about as close as he's gotten.

[bucks59]

OH well, Jerry Reisndorff did the same thing to the Bulls 10 years ago, and blew it up. Since this is the NFL and not the NBA I am sure we will be back to the playoffs quicker than the Bulls were.

The siutations are completely and utterly different. The Bulls lost a hall of fame coach, two hall of fame players, and an amazing defender and rebounder who might also be hall of fame material. Jordan at the time was still the best player in the game and was the MVP of the Finals. Brett had a great year, but nothing compared to Jordan's final year. Jordan ended that year by stealing the ball from Malone and then making a game winning shot. Brett ended that year throwing an interception. Even if you say Brett was the same as Jordan last year, which he wasn't, the Packers did not lose nearly as much around him. They lost Corey Williams, who some fans would argue is critical, but he is no Pippen or Rodman or Phil Jackson. The "re-building" jobs are completely different. The Packers could arguably still make the playoffs, where as the Bulls had absolutely zero chance.

Terrible comparison.

My biggest problem with the DT situation is that the Packers should have hedged their bets and added another DT. It was hard to know if Harrell was going to stay healthy, and while there was a ton of depth at that position, it wouldn't have hurt the team that greatly to bring in one more body. At the very least, it adds to camp competition. Its fine to not want to over pay Williams, but you have to have more than just Harrell as insurance. Especially since the Packers are going to win games thanks to their defense and the line is critical for that.

Hopefully this forces the team to utilize their line backers and make them more aggressive. That is probably the strongest position on the team right now. I really think after this season, TT is going to have to add more players to the defensive side of the ball. The offense should be fine, but the corners are getting old and have no depth and the line looks shallow.

[Ayt]

There wasn't a risk in giving Corey WIlliams a huge free agent contract?

Exactly. I remember reading last year that there were some within the organization that believed this was Cletidus Hunt in the making. Once he got paid, it'd be downhill....

I think that's a risk you run with pretty much every defensive tackle. Carrying all that weight around in usually stocky frames is no small feat and unless you have an extra incentive, it's much more natural to "loaf". Read scouting reports for DT prospects and half the time they say "inconsistent motor", "lazy", etc. Consistently good DT's really have to have a passion for football.

For the record, I don't disagree with the decision to not re-sign Williams. However, once Harrell was out indefinitely, TT should have pursued another rotation caliber DT. I think his reluctance is because it would be like implying he was wrong about Harrell in the first place. And he doesn't want to bring in a replacement, even short-term, who would hinder Harrell's development, making it more likely he'd have to admit he was wrong when he made the Harrell pick. He won't bring in a capable veteran backup QB, when both his draft picks look ill prepared to step in if called upon, for the same reasons. The downside of having a really smart GM is most have colossal egos, which sometimes prevent them from making decisions in the best interest of the team in ALL cases. Overall TT is definitely a good GM, but he'll never be great if he's not willing to acknowledge when he's wrong.

I love all the psychoanalysing of Thompson. I don't even know what people mean when they say his ego makes him do this or that. It seems to me that the people that think his huge ego drives his decisions simply don't understand the decisions he makes and have that as a fallback to sooth their own ego. His first draft pick was ego rather than picking a player that shouldn't have fallen as far as he did to be the heir apparent since his current QB was talking retirement every offseason. When he hired McCarthy, people blamed his ego, him wanting to look smart, instead of the more obvious answer that TT simply thought he was the best man for the job. When he drafted Jennings instead of picking Chad Jackson, it was ego in wanting to find a small school gem instead of taking the big school, hot prospect. Or maybe he just thought he was a better player. When he drafted Jones, you heard the same nonsense about wanting to look smart. Trading Walker was ego. Not re-signing Ahman and letting all the young backs battle it out for the job was ego. Then, of course, there is the trading of Favre, which was obviously an ego driven decision. Like all his other "strange" moves, there could be no other explanation. Maybe he just wants to build a football team the way he sees fit, even if most fans can't understand it. Of course, he gets called egotistical for not more clearly explaining to the fans why he makes a lot of the decisions he does. The list goes on and on when it comes to decisions he's made and their being real explanations compared to TT simply having a big ego.

If he has a flaw, its expecting young players and competition to eventually lead to a guy stepping up and seizing a job. He's done it at a number of positions, and last year it really paid off across the board on the team. You had a ton of young guys step up and take key roles in us winning 13 games at nearly every position on the field. Its really incredible when you think about where we stood right after the draft and how it all played out with guys like Grant, Jennings, Jones, Lee, Jolly, Bigby, and even Poppinga having the years they did.

This year, his faith in young players could backfire. Brohm doesn't look ready, but maybe Flynn could be a solid backup if needed. Tough to say. The interior OL still isn't settled despite the numerous picks we've spent there. Injuries certainly haven't helped. DT is obviously also an issue because of injuries. TT thought that with Pickett, Jolly, Harrell, Cole, and even Muir that the dust would clear and we'd have a solid rotation there, but it may not work out that way. As or not wanting to sign anyone after we found out Harrell was going on the PUP list because that would be admitting a mistake and TT can't do that, its just more nonsensical psychobable. Who would they sign and where would that person be on the depth chart? Even if they did sign or trade for someone, it would be about covering up injuries instead of admitting a mistake, but they appear to be fine with what they have in the top four and possibly a guy like Malone if needed. Nickel and dime may be an issue if Williams and other young guys falter. Backup TE could be an issue.

So if anything, I think it is clear that Thompson puts a lot of faith in young players -- and his coaching staff -- as opposed to simply wanting to do things differently or wanting to stroke his ego. If he sees a problem area, his idea on how to fix it seems to be to throw as much young talent at the position as he can and let the players and the coaches work until someone steps up. I suppose you could call it ego, but it looks to me like it is simply his philosophy on how to build a team. If that is him stroking his ego, then every other GM does the same thing when they construct a team according to their vision rather than doing what fans want or what "experts" expect.

[ReasonablySober]

^ Yea, this one belongs in the Packers board hall of fame.

[eagle13]

I love all the psychoanalysing of Thompson. I don't even know what people mean when they say his ego makes him do this or that.

Sorry you have remedial comprehension. Ever hear of a dictionary?