OT:Election 2008

[MaryvalesFinest]

Now that both presidential candidates chose running mates, just wondering who most Suns fans are rooting for and why.

[TASTIC]

VOTE QUIMBY VOTE QUIMBY VOTE QUIMBYyyyy.....

[ray ray]

I'm still undecided at this time but, I'm leaning towards McCain & Palin.....

[MaryvalesFinest]

I'll add undecided to the list of poll options.

[eastsidecrossover]

The more research I do about Urmama, I mean, Messiah Obama, the less I like the dude. Hes a great speaker, but that is about it. I have not been a big fan of McCain either, but to me, and what I am looking for, I think he is the better candidate. I actually like his pick over Obama b/c what she has done in Alaska. A governor, 5 kids, played basketball, fought corruption in her own party and the oil companies up there, hell, shes got it going. See seems like a strong women, and I like that. IMO, I think a Governor has way more experience than a senator, especially Obama.

Besides that, I personally do not think much will change. Its politics, and both sides will make promises and forget them as the game goes on. Change my ass.

A little fact by the way. Did you know both the house and senate have a lower approval ratting than Bush does??????? Yeah, and both house and senate are run by the dems. Both sides are screwed up by the way.

[Go7enKs]

Look, I'm from Europe so I know It's maybe none of my business. But I can't fathom how McCain has even a chance to get to the White House. Sure, maybe Obama is just a good speaker...but McCain doesn't even know hot to speak. (Just like Bush, btw). Also, he talks of himself as a super-specialist in foreign policy and doesn't even know geography. Beisdes who's this Sarah Palin? Is anyone of you buying that she has good foreign experience because she lived next to Russia? I mean, isn't that an idiotic point? Is anybody even taking the GOP seriously anymore?

The way I see it, Obama is the only way for the US to restore their credibility around the world and their crippling economics. Well...unless you are McCain and you think the economics are "fundamentally strong"...

[impulsenine]

My main concerns about the President are the following:

- A grasp of the subtle power of negotiation, speech and politics in foreign policy, something that has been devastatingly lacking in the last 8 years.
- An economic policy that revalues the dollar, encourages saving and salary pay (as opposed to living by investing).
- A concrete, pragmatic, non-regulatory, market-oriented means of reducing oil usage (good news being that both candidates basically share the same opinion on how to do this).
- A reworking of the medical care system.
- Someone who will inspire Americans to get their collective s--t together.

A few quick reasons I'm going with Obama/Biden:

- Republican leadership doesn't need to feel rewarded/redeemed for the last 8 years.

- Obama will lower my taxes (and most peoples') by bringing them to rates that roughly correspond with those that Reagan instituted after Carter, and that Clinton had; when taxes are lowered to extremes for the upper class (by both Bushes) and for capital gains, we've consistently seen the result: recession.

- He and Biden have been remarkably prescient with foreign affairs. Obama rightly predicted the problems we were headed into with Iraq, and rightly predicted what Maliki would want to end it. Biden has been quoted as warning that Bush's obsession with missile defense was irrational given that most of the threats to the U.S. were "in the belly of a plane" -- and he made that critique as the Chair of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations on September 10th, 2001. He's still the chair of that Committee.

- Obama thinks very carefully. His answers are well thought-out, he constantly consults experts with whom he doesn't always agree. His policy papers are hundreds of pages long, cite sources, quote experts, and don't lie.

- His plan for the medical system is expensive, but it's expensive because it forces a desperately-needed complete reworking of that system. Moreover, his plans contain very specific proposals on how to get the job done (as opposed to McCain, see below). The current setup is so patchwork that it barely functions. The government's basic job is to do things that don't naturally happen via market and social forces. The current medical care system is a shoddy mess; by forcing all providers to use the same system, to electronicize their records, and to interoperate, we'll save a lot of money and lives in the long run. Moreover, once the system is in place, the Obama plan allows a great deal of private enterprise to function within the system; it isn't just a big government bureaucracy that runs it.

A few quick reasons I won't vote for McCain:

- I like McCain when he takes on unpopular causes, angering the status quo (i.e., immigration reform, campaign finance). Unfortunately, while that mindset is good for a Senator, it's terrible for a President. His stance on Georgia was irresponsible because he knew he couldn't back up his battle cries (especially kicking Russian out of the G8); the Georgian president even called his bluff.

- The McCain medical plan is to privatize it, and give families a $5,000 tax credit on medical expenses, but does absolutely nothing to fix the system that makes the credit necessary, or give specifics on how it plans to put reasonable limits on premiums other than to "work with the best experiences of the states." It's a band-aid on cancer.

- Lowering taxes during wartime is spectacularly irresponsible, especially with a huge debt already piled up, and the Dollar going down as a result.

- Being a POW does not qualify you as an expert on the economy, foreign affairs, or anything except for what the definition of torture is - and you'd think he'd oppose it within the CIA without qualification. War heroes don't cheapen their service by using it as a political bludgeon to counter any critique, no matter how outlandishly unrelated.

- Be honest: If Palin were a man, would she have been selected? She is a rising star, and I wish she had stayed in Alaska to continue her good work, but a few years as the mayor of a town with 1/10th the number of students at my old college (U of Az) and two years governing a state with 1/2 the number of people in my city (Tucson) does not a Vice President make. And I'm really not impressed that McCain would risk an incompetent person becoming President.



Finally, regarding Obama's charisma: Don't underestimate the power of love for a President. Eisenhower (my favorite President), JFK, FDR, Teddy, Reagan, and other great Presidents didn't always have great policy, but they inspired the American people. Almost nobody is inspired by Bush to be better, more community-oriented people. As charismatic as he was, few people were inspired by the used car salesman vibe that Clinton often exuded. I was born in 1980; I don't remember much about the first Bush, so I have never felt very inspired a standing President. Inspired people - people who genuinely love their leader, be it in an office or in politics - work better. They achieve better.

I would argue that the long line of tough American-values work ethic that lasted from FDR's handling of the Great Depression, all the way through JFK, was partly because of the inspiration of the standing Presidents. Those Fireside Chats had as much to do with picking ourselves up as the economy did. Ditto WWII. Ditto the early part of the Cold War. But Vietnam - well, that didn't inspire, did it? Neither did Carter. And ever since Nixon or so, Boomers never really trusted a politician. And their children inherited that distrust, not that Clinton or Bush did much to change minds.

Only Americans can make America great. Only inspired Americans will make a great America. Elect the man that can with words as well as deeds, inspire.


Back to lurker mode.

[impulsenine]

Besides that, I personally do not think much will change. Its politics, and both sides will make promises and forget them as the game goes on. Change my ass.

Agreed. That's why I put so much importance on how inspiring a leader is. The only people that'll really change America are Americans; they're more likely to do so when they get someone who'll ask them what they "can do for their country", or takes the time to have a fireside chat, etc.

A little fact by the way. Did you know both the house and senate have a lower approval ratting than Bush does??????? Yeah, and both house and senate are run by the dems. Both sides are screwed up by the way.

Congress' approval ratings are historically indexed to the Presidents' - it's almost always whatever the Presidents' approval rating, minus 10%. Not that they deserve to be rated higher or anything; they've rolled over like a puppy for the Executive branch so many times it's a wonder they're not dizzy.

[flanpaw42]

I am not a fan of either candidate. Obama has no experiance, he became a senator and a year later started campaigning, he is just exciting.

mccain is experianced but he is not exciting.

lets make an analogy, obama is d'antoni's suns and mccain is the spurs. experiance wins.

people talk about bidens experiance but he is a lifelong senator which basically means he has never really led he has just been part of a giant committee.

Palin has been a mayor and a governor and quite succesful. i think she is the real deal out of all 4 of them.

obama also leans all the way to the left, which i think congress has proven will accomplish nothing.

mccain is more in the middle and has proven he is willing to ask for help from both sides.

i also think the comparisons of mccain to bush are vey undfair. he has been a huge critic of bush. he only agrees with bush when he truly feels it is good for the nation.

for the economy, i think the only think that can help the economy is for us to pull out of iraq, get off foreign oil, and stop giving so much money to every little b.s. cause out there. other countries can solve their own problems. and the rest of the world needs to step up.

for the military. i am a us marine, i worry about what obama will do to us. when clinton took office he destroyed our military. another thing i take issue with is seeing a picture of someone who wants to be the commander in chief not citing the pledge of allegiance and not putting his hand over his heart when it is recited or when the national anthem is being played. i have seen a few pictures where he is just standing there. i truly believe palin and mccain would be better leaders for the military.

neither mccain or obama did well with the georgia incident. in the world right now we have no leverage. our military is spead thin so that is no weapon. we dont have the pull to impose sanctions. that isnt to say we can't beat anyone in a fight. if russia declared war and we redirected our troops, we would win hands down. it just wouldnt be a quick war at all.

in summation i will be voting for mccain and palin. i believe that everyonbe has a responsibility to vote. wether you vote rep or dem it is a resonsibilty as well as a right. many have fought died to give that right to us so we owe it to them. women, blacks, hispanics, everyone should vote. at the end of the day i would like a leader. someone who will make the right decision and not the exciting speach. i did hear palin speak and i really really liked her. she is exciting to me. oh and she's pretty good looking as well.

[MaryvalesFinest]

Actually, Obama does say the pledge. It shows him right here doing it if you click on this link.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/patriot

[flanpaw42]

on wednsday i will post a pic that shows otherwise. it is a pic of him, bill richardson, and hilary out doors and everyone is doing it but him. the pic is on my work e-mail. but rest assured it is there and real, i did the research to make sure it wasn't photoshopped.

[rsavaj]

Le Political Compass has my dot overlapping Ralph Nader's.

Sad Face.

[Go7enKs]

on wednsday i will post a pic that shows otherwise. it is a pic of him, bill richardson, and hilary out doors and everyone is doing it but him. the pic is on my work e-mail. but rest assured it is there and real, i did the research to make sure it wasn't photoshopped.

Wow, it's really a very strong reason not to vote for him

Maybe he just took his hand down a second and they made the picture just in that moment. Come on, gimme a break. Patriotism is not measured by a flag pin or a hand on the heart.

Read his books, you'll see that he is indeed patriotic.

Also, patriotism is not a measure of how a leader will do. Bush was very patriotic, wasn't he?

[BurningHeart]

Oh yeah, Obama is so patriotic, that he was a member of a "church" for twenty years that spewed anti-American, racist rhetoric. A "church" that promotes Black Liberation Theology, which employed a preacher who said that 9/11 was America's fault and that their chickens have come home to roost. Oh, yeah, that same preacher coined "The Audacity of Hope", which is the title of Obama's book. That same preacher married him to his wife, and baptized his kids. That same preacher that was referred to by Obama as his "spiritual advisor".

Obama is so patriotic, that he launched his political career from the house of a unrepentant domestic terrorist who led bombings of military recruitment offices and the Pentagon, and as recently as 9/11/01, came out and said that he wishes he did more against the country.

Obama is so patriotic, that his wife claims that America is a "downright mean country" and for the "first time in her adult life", she's proud of America for allowing a black man to get this far in the political game.

So excuse me when I say that his character and judgment are SEVERELY flawed, for these reasons and more.

PS, that's just getting started, and I don't have the energy to talk more about this guy.

[Go7enKs]

Yah let's elect McCain then. He thinks the economy is strong even though America is in the worst recession in 70 years. He thinks the US might have to stay in Iraq "forever"...Sounds like a wise man.

I couldn't care less what Obama's preacher thinks. He is not on the ticket. He is not the candidate.

As for Michelle's quote. You're misinterpreting it and forgetting the context. So your arguments are misleading and untruthful.

Anyway...I don't even know why I'm answering. Go vote for McCain. But don't complain when your country will get even worse than it is right now.

[Legionary15]

Europe is basicaly a welfare state, so the democrats plan to establish a universal healthcare system and blablabla appeal to their ideologies. But here in America it's already way difficult to get an appointment with mericare and medicaid, so there will be no short term infrastructure to attend more millions of users. McCain wants to promote competition between health insurance companies so the general public can get affordable health care. I believe that's the way to go.

Regarding our military conflicts, I do believe that it's our role to ''police the world'', cause we've been fighting and helping to solve local crysis in far corners of the globe so they do not become a regional or international threats. That's why we need 11 Aircraft carriers: to project power anywhere it is needed (japan relies on us to provide security, and so do every country that depends on the oil that is transported on the dangerous waters of the persian gulf)
We surely needed more troops to invade iraq and we also needed to understand more about the social divisions there so we could avoid civil war, but I do believe that the world is a better place withut saddam hussein

Yeah, I support Mccain

[abekazi]

McCain / Palin

I can't help but laugh at all the Democrats that are on Barrack Hussein Obama's bandwagon. He is a very good speaker but so are used car salesman. He talks about change and then he announces a Washington insider as his VP. Nice job jackass. McCain goes against the grain and becomes the true party of change by selecting a Washington outsider and fellow Maverick in Sarah Palin. Great choice by McCain. She is a badass, and a Woman. Every election the Democrats think they are going to win in a landslide and then shoot themselves in the foot. The Democratic Party is like Penn State running backs, Great as amatuers but suck in the Pros. When the Republicans take Florida, Michigan, and Ohio come November it will be another dagger in the bleeding leftists hearts of the liberals. Obama is a snake oil salesman who talks in circles and is unable to take a stand on anything. He stole Hillary's Health Insurance program. Just say no to the Black, closet Muslim, America Hater Obama.

[rsavaj]

McCain / Palin

I can't help but laugh at all the Democrats that are on Barrack Hussein Obama's bandwagon. He is a very good speaker but so are used car salesman. He talks about change and then he announces a Washington insider as his VP. Nice job jackass. McCain goes against the grain and becomes the true party of change by selecting a Washington outsider and fellow Maverick in Sarah Palin. Great choice by McCain. She is a badass, and a Woman. Every election the Democrats think they are going to win in a landslide and then shoot themselves in the foot. The Democratic Party is like Penn State running backs, Great as amatuers but suck in the Pros. When the Republicans take Florida, Michigan, and Ohio come November it will be another dagger in the bleeding leftists hearts of the liberals. Obama is a snake oil salesman who talks in circles and is unable to take a stand on anything. He stole Hillary's Health Insurance program. Just say no to the Black, closet Muslim, America Hater Obama.

What do you have against blacks or muslims?

[rsavaj]

I am not a fan of either candidate. Obama has no experiance, he became a senator and a year later started campaigning, he is just exciting.

mccain is experianced but he is not exciting.

lets make an analogy, obama is d'antoni's suns and mccain is the spurs. experiance wins.

I'm not bashing the rest of your argument b/c hey, to each his/her own, that's what makes this country great; but I do take issue with the "experience" argument. Dick Cheney had plenty(PLENTY) of experience and he still screwed us. Bush had 4 years in the job and he still screwed us in his second term.

I don't think that experience automatically equals qualifications or wisdom.

[rsavaj]

Obama is so patriotic, that his wife claims that America is a "downright mean country" and for the "first time in her adult life", she's proud of America for allowing a black man to get this far in the political game.

FWIW, Laura Bush thinks those attacks were misconstrued.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCcxCFbTlJA

I have no delusions about this changing your views, but I just thought I'd point that out.