Iguodala signs for 6 years per ESPN.com

[geiger]

If you hate Ray Allen, you hate Jesus.

[geiger]

Saw Portland signed Luke Jackson today and two other bodies. While terms were not disclosed, it's almost guaranteed it was to a non-guaranteed contract. Would have like to have seen the Sixers bring him in on a non-guaranteed deal to see if he could make the team. Tough break after tough break for that kid in the NBA. Can't help but think that if he's fully healthy, he can be a serviceable NBA back up. This year is probably his last chance before heading overseas to Europe.

[freshie2]

Ray Allen is a first ballet HOF player? I like Ray Allen, but I don't know that he's in that realm.

[geiger]

If not first ballot, damn close to it. Basketball HOF is not like baseball. Allen so far, in 12 years in the league, has a title to his credit, multiple playoff appearances with 3 different teams, has shot 40% from 3 point land while hitting 2100 3's already, has posted over 21 points a game, 4.5 rebounds, 4 assists, scored over 18,000 points, 8 years of over 20 points per game, 7 of over 22 points per game, 3 of over 24 points per game, second all time right now in 3 pointers made, has record for most 3's in a season, has record for 3 pointers in a Finals series, has been named to the all-NBA second and third teams, 8 all-star appearances, already 53 all time in NBA's history in points scored, NBA record for most seasons leading the league in 3 pointers made. Numerous other awards and accomplishments - including an Olympic Gold Medal. Yeah, I'd say that before it's all said and done, he'll be a first ballot HOF. I personally believe that if he were to retire today, he would already get into the HOF, although probably not on the first go around, but as the points pile up and he hits more 3's, he'll be a first timer.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Ah, Geiger and I agree. Ray Allen in his prime was one of the best shooters/scorers in basketball and should ride out his career with at least 1 NBA title. He's a hall of famer. But the true first ballot Hall of Famer that everyone but Geiger and I dismiss is Allen Iverson. One only has to look at the Denver Nuggets for proof of Iverson's greatness. You generally just don't win 50+ games with as bad a defense as the Denver Nuggets. Unless Iverson is on the team. Carmelo Anthony is one of the biggest busts of all time with an offensive only dimension game. I didn't see the so called defense Anthony proclaimed in the olympics. Single handedly, the best defense from the Olympic team came from Dwyane Flash Wade and you can bet he's back. Adding the dimension of cutting into the lanes without the ball into his arsenal make him the most prolific young guard since Allen Iverson. And yes, better then Kobe.

1A: LeBron James
1B:Dwyane Wade
2:Kobe Bryant
3:Chris Paul
4:Deron Williams

I place a high emphasis on PG play and Chris Paul and Deron Williams are two young players who look to be gifted with long NBA Allstar careers.

[Loose Cannon]

Ah, Geiger and I agree. Ray Allen in his prime was one of the best shooters/scorers in basketball and should ride out his career with at least 1 NBA title. He's a hall of famer. But the true first ballot Hall of Famer that everyone but Geiger and I dismiss is Allen Iverson. One only has to look at the Denver Nuggets for proof of Iverson's greatness. You generally just don't win 50+ games with as bad a defense as the Denver Nuggets. Unless Iverson is on the team. Carmelo Anthony is one of the biggest busts of all time with an offensive only dimension game. I didn't see the so called defense Anthony proclaimed in the olympics. Single handedly, the best defense from the Olympic team came from Dwyane Flash Wade and you can bet he's back. Adding the dimension of cutting into the lanes without the ball into his arsenal make him the most prolific young guard since Allen Iverson. And yes, better then Kobe.

1A: LeBron James
1B:Dwyane Wade
2:Kobe Bryant
3:Chris Paul
4:Deron Williams

I place a high emphasis on PG play and Chris Paul and Deron Williams are two young players who look to be gifted with long NBA Allstar careers.

Anthony is a bust? Negative, he's filled out to be pretty much what most people expected of him: a gifted offensive player. The defense isn't there... but it never was.

[geiger]

I don't think anyone dismisses AI as a first ballot HOF. In fact, I haven't heard anyone, not even the Iverson bashers, suggest that he won't be in the HOF upon eligibility.

Calling Carmelo Anthony, one of the top 5 scorers in the NBA, a bust is beyond any silliness one can imagine. I guess Denver should have trade the pick and moved up to get Darko Milicic instead. A guy who is a perennial all-star, will be a HOF player, has a gold medal to his name, and is a top 5 scorer in the entire NBA, averaging almost 26 points and over 7 rebounds a game for a playoff team is a bust? When he came to Denver they were a 20 win team and became a 50 win team, but he's a bust? What would be a success? Is there a single guy from last year's draft that isn't a bust by those standars? How about from the preceding draft?

And biggest busts all time to boot? I guess Pervis Ellison didn't go first overall, Michael Olowakandi didn't go first overall, Sam Bowie didn't go second overall, Darko Milicic in the same draft as Anthony, didn't go second overall, etc.

[Philly KDub]

there's no denying that melo is such a good player. some people are calling him a bust because they expected more from melo. yes melo is such an excellent offensive player...you cant deny that but he's always lazy on defense, can be selfish at times, and doesnt always give 100% every time he's on the floor. i do truly believe that melo can increase his production in a big way if he can just play harder and give it all. he's too talented to be playing at this level. he can do better.....that's why some ppl are calling him a bust but i dont agree with that

[sec-106]

Anthony is no bust.

But he'll never reach his full potential under George Karl.

[The Guilty Party]

Has there been any legitimate info about the breakdown of Iguodala's contract?? News has come out over the past couple of weeks regarding Ellis' deal in that he will be making a flat salary of $11MIL per season for the next 6 years. I'm hoping Iguodala's deal has some sort of catch rather than being a normal deal with max increases.

[geiger]

Ideally it would start high and go lower, but I haven't seen anything.

[freshie2]

If not first ballot, damn close to it. Basketball HOF is not like baseball. Allen so far, in 12 years in the league, has a title to his credit, multiple playoff appearances with 3 different teams, has shot 40% from 3 point land while hitting 2100 3's already, has posted over 21 points a game, 4.5 rebounds, 4 assists, scored over 18,000 points, 8 years of over 20 points per game, 7 of over 22 points per game, 3 of over 24 points per game, second all time right now in 3 pointers made, has record for most 3's in a season, has record for 3 pointers in a Finals series, has been named to the all-NBA second and third teams, 8 all-star appearances, already 53 all time in NBA's history in points scored, NBA record for most seasons leading the league in 3 pointers made. Numerous other awards and accomplishments - including an Olympic Gold Medal. Yeah, I'd say that before it's all said and done, he'll be a first ballot HOF. I personally believe that if he were to retire today, he would already get into the HOF, although probably not on the first go around, but as the points pile up and he hits more 3's, he'll be a first timer.

Don't get me wrong, I do like Ray Allen, but don't really consider him in the same star category as Iverson. Iverson gets the stats/press to be a sure fire HOF player. Ray Allen is more integral to team success than Iverson, but doesn't get the stats/press to be in the same category when it comes to HOF consideration. That was my only point...I don't see Allen in that HOF classification, but I would have loved to have had him here as the SG.

So if a SG can average 21/4/4 and be lauded for his contributions, what does a 20/5/5 player get? Besides $80 million?

[geiger]

You mean after 13 years of 20, 5 and 5, numerous playoff runs as the elite dog on his team, Conference Finals trip, and an NBA Championship, while also knocking a few all time records out of the box and making 8 all-star teams?

Well, after that, that guy gets HOF consideration on the first ballot. Otherwise, he might be getting overpaid.

[freshie2]

You mean after 13 years of 20, 5 and 5, numerous playoff runs as the elite dog on his team, Conference Finals trip, and an NBA Championship, while also knocking a few all time records out of the box and making 8 all-star teams?

Well, after that, that guy gets HOF consideration on the first ballot. Otherwise, he might be getting overpaid.

Unfortunately (or should I say hopefully) we won't be posting on this site in a decade, but it will be interesting to see how the next decade plays out for Iguodala. It is interesting that a player known as a shooter/scorer with a career average of 21 is great, while a versatile player who's scoring is almost secondary to his total game and averages 20 a game has a ton of questions.

I don't know that Allen was ever the elite dog on any of those teams except the one year that Seattle went to the playoffs...he had the obvious cast of stars in Boston, and Cassell, Vin Baker and Big Dog with the Bucks. Again, I do really like him as a pure 2G, but am not getting your level of excitement on this one.

[geiger]

It's not interesting at all. It's common sense. When a guy does something for 13 years, it's incredible. When a guy does something for one, it's not. You just compared Allen's career numbers with Iguodala's career year. Iguodala is not a 20, 5, and 5 guy just like Allen is not a 21, 4 and 4 guy. In his prime, Allen was a 24, 5, and 4 guys and for his career, Iguodala is under 15 a game, 5.7 and 4 guy. So based on career numbers, Allen is 21, 4, and 4 and Iguodala is 14, 6, and 4. See the difference? Now if in 10 years, Iguodala is sporting a 20, 5 and 5 average, it would be a different story, but right now, it's a bit of a stretch to compare the two based on one single year of 20 point production Iggy had as the lead dog on a losing team - or did you forget that the Sixers had a losing record? Allen put up those numbers on teams that not only made to the playoffs but were in the Conference Finals. And Allen put up huge numbers in the playoffs and set some Finals records. Iguodala has choked in his playoff appearances so far. Until he puts up those numbers over a long period of time and produces in the playoffs, it's ludicrous to compare the two. And Allen was absolutely the elite dog on the Milwaukee teams and on Seattle. Was he the elite dog on Boston? No. But he was the guy who most often got the ball with the game on the line - at least according to Pierce and Garnett.

[corwin]

Has there been any legitimate info about the breakdown of Iguodala's contract?? News has come out over the past couple of weeks regarding Ellis' deal in that he will be making a flat salary of $11MIL per season for the next 6 years. I'm hoping Iguodala's deal has some sort of catch rather than being a normal deal with max increases.

I just checked a couple sites after I was told that his numbers were posted on Hoopshype. Hoopsworld & Storyteller also have figures. Sham is not yet available. All 3 sites have escalating salaries. I've dropped the last three numbers to make it easier to read.

Hoopshype (http://hoopshype.com/salaries)
11,300 12,200 12,345 13,531 14,718 15,904

Hoopsword (http://hoopsworld.com)
11,300 12,484 13,673 14,859 16,046 17,232

Storyteller (http://storytellerscontracts.info)
11,300 12,113 12,926 13,740 14,553 15,366

I have to admit that I'm disappointed in the structure of this contract if these figures are anywhere near accurate. I was hoping that the numbers would be level to give Ed greater flexibility in the future.

[freshie2]

It's not interesting at all. It's common sense. When a guy does something for 13 years, it's incredible. When a guy does something for one, it's not. You just compared Allen's career numbers with Iguodala's career year. Iguodala is not a 20, 5, and 5 guy just like Allen is not a 21, 4 and 4 guy. In his prime, Allen was a 24, 5, and 4 guys and for his career, Iguodala is under 15 a game, 5.7 and 4 guy. So based on career numbers, Allen is 21, 4, and 4 and Iguodala is 14, 6, and 4. See the difference? Now if in 10 years, Iguodala is sporting a 20, 5 and 5 average, it would be a different story, but right now, it's a bit of a stretch to compare the two based on one single year of 20 point production Iggy had as the lead dog on a losing team - or did you forget that the Sixers had a losing record? Allen put up those numbers on teams that not only made to the playoffs but were in the Conference Finals. And Allen put up huge numbers in the playoffs and set some Finals records. Iguodala has choked in his playoff appearances so far. Until he puts up those numbers over a long period of time and produces in the playoffs, it's ludicrous to compare the two. And Allen was absolutely the elite dog on the Milwaukee teams and on Seattle. Was he the elite dog on Boston? No. But he was the guy who most often got the ball with the game on the line - at least according to Pierce and Garnett.

Listen, the Iguodala reference was tongue and cheek...he is not in Allen's class at this point, and may never be. Allen's body of reference is impressive, but my point simply is how badly Iguodala get's bashed, yet if he plays at this level for a decade, he'll be thought of in a different light. If you are started a team right now, and could have a 24 year old Ray Allen, Andre Iguodala, or even Allen Iverson, the smart money goes to Ray Allen, so I do agree that he is one heck of a player.

[geiger]

There I totally agree with you. We tend to ignore the fact that the kid is 24 and often disregard what he does well and focus on what he doesn't do well because it just so happens to be an area of need. If he continues to duplicate those numbers or even average slightly less, but improve the versatility of his game, he should absolutely be given credit for it. I think it's probably just human nature to want what you don't have. That's why people note that Michael Redd is a much better shooter and 3 point shooter, but don't note that he's not half the defender, not as good a passer, not as good a rebounder, not as versatile an offensive plyaer, etc. I would like to see Iggy actually improve his game as opposed to improve his stats, which is what I feel he's been doing the last two seasons, but I also do think he has the ability to do so. Time will tell whether he takes advantage of that ability or takes the money and stays content with what he is now.