Amare Stoudemire: All Star or Superstar

Twuan89 · Post #1 » by **Twuan89** » Sat Sep 6, 2008 7:32 am

What do you think?

stood-amire · Post #2 » by **stood-amire** » Sat Sep 6, 2008 8:15 am

Caron Butler is an All-star, Amare isn't quite there yet IMO but he is much closer to superstar than to an all-star.
For me superstars are Kobe, James, Paul.
Wade, Amare, Howard, Pierce, Nash... are not quite there but I belive Amare will be soon but thats just my opinion.
Superstars for me are players who can do it all and those 3 certanly can the rest are all missing something like Amare is missing D and Howard is missing offense.
Amare is a second level superstar if that exisists:D I just don't think it would be fair to put Kobe and Wade in same category or Pierce and James but they are very close.

walkingart · Post #3 » by **walkingart** » Sat Sep 6, 2008 8:36 am

Twuan89 wrote:What do you think?

Seriously, are you playing twenty questions? If you are going to start threads can you have an opinion on the thread at the least.

Post #4 » by **TASTIC** » Sat Sep 6, 2008 9:36 am

Agreed^

Twuan this is a forum mate, offer your opinion in a thread rather than just asking one question - people will respond when you give them something to work with

pidi · Post #5 » by **pidi** » Sat Sep 6, 2008 11:14 am

well i think theres realy no better pf in this league if amare learns to play defense.
since shaq arrival amare turned into a beast. if he can keep up this good work he´s on the way to be a superstar.
he got this freakin instincts to make some good decisions - i don´t know any other forward that gt such instincts...

Post #6 » by **lilfishi22** » Sat Sep 6, 2008 11:43 am

Amare is an All-star right now but if he can improve his defense he will be a superstar.

Post #7 » by **TASTIC** » Sat Sep 6, 2008 12:04 pm

To me, there are only 3 SUPERSTARS at the moment (add one by default)

Shaq
LeBron
Kobe

Those 3 are above everyone else in terms of recognition and ability, whether past or present.
Yao is their simply because he has a billion people behind him.

The second tier is made up of guys like Duncan, Kidd, TMac, KG, Nash , Iverson and Dirk - guys who have proven themselves but don't command the worldwide recognition that the top 3 have. If you showed a picture of each player to 1000 people across all areas of the globe, more people would know who those top 3 are than any of the rest, which makes them Superstars (albeit in Shaq's case an aged one). You could argue Carter at his peak was up there, but he never quite made it don't think.

And then there's a younger Superstar ability group, most of whom have had short times where they've played like superstars but haven't held that level long enough to stay there. Guys like Paul, Amare, Dwight, Wade (was there for the Finals), etc have the potential to get there, whereas I think Melo, Boozer, JJ, Parker.

Finally there's the perennial All Stars such as Brand, Allen, Pierce, BDavis, Manu, Lewis, Marion, Gasol, Billups etc

I dunno, to me a "Superstar" is someone who when ANYTHING happens to them, people see it on the news around the world. If Wade beat some dude up outside a nightclub, it wouldn't make news in New Zealand, where basketball is a secondary sport, whereas if Shaq/LeBron/Kobe did it, it'd be news.

I'm taking the term as not just basketball terminology, but in a global sense. A Superstar is someone who when all's said and done, you can mention their name among Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Hakeem etc and people won't hear "One of these things is not like the other..." playing in their head...

Post #8 » by **lilfishi22** » Sat Sep 6, 2008 12:50 pm

Honestly I think only Kobe and Lebron are the only true superstars in the league today. They have sponsorship deals above everyone else, they have recognition all around the world and put up superstar stats night in and night out. I would put CP3 up there, but because people don't sem him on the same level of stardom as Lebron and Kobe, I left him off.

I think if they were to retire tomorrow, only those two would make news in Australia. Shaq is a little different, because of his decline, people overseas don't hear about him as much as they hear about the Lebron's and Kobe's. But if Shaq was to retire tomorrow he would only make news only because he deserves the recognition not because it's a shock, ie breaking news type of shock.

Actually make that three people who would make aussie news if they retired; Kobe, Lebron and BOGUT.

A.I won't make the news, Duncan won't make the news, Garnett won't make the news and Dirk certainly won't make the news. I think countries like Australia and New Zealand is a good country to see how much of a superstar NBA players are because the basketball market here is so small (heck Sydney Kings couldn't even keep up attendance in the biggest city in Australia.)

ray ray · Post #9 » by **ray ray** » Sat Sep 6, 2008 2:14 pm

Amare is an All Star but with the potential to be an Super Star. He needs to get better defensively and needs to play smarter in order to enter into the elite status. Will he? I do beleieve he will and Shaq is going to get him there.

Post #10 » by **rsavaj** » Sat Sep 6, 2008 3:34 pm

In terms of effectivness, he's closer to an All-Star right now than a superstar. He has the talent to take "The Leap" though.

Post #11 » by **Miklo** » Sat Sep 6, 2008 5:45 pm

All star? Superstar? What is this, difficulty levels on NBA Live?

I cast my vote for Beast.

TXSun · Post #12 » by **TXSun** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 7:05 am

I think Amare, Paul, Nash, Pierce, and Wade is as close as its gonna get for an All-star who's not quite a Super Star. Here's my list of who I believe are legit & authentic Super Stars: Kobe, LBJames, Garnett.

Post #13 » by **lilfishi22** » Mon Sep 8, 2008 1:35 pm

^
I concur. Garnett is a superstar

Post #14 » by **tsherkin** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 5:22 am

I don't think KG is a superstar anymore. I don't think he plays enough. He's a perennial All-Star and former superstar, just like the shine on Shaq's star has dimmed to the point where he's no longer even an All-Star.

Superstars? I think Wade, Lebron and Kobe are about it. Dirk's pretty close, IMO, but that's about it.

Is Amare an All-Star? Yeah. Even without Nash, he's a 20/9 47% FG guy, and he's turned himself into a nearly 80% FT shooter, too. That's an All-Star caliber player... not a perennial All-Star, but someone like Gasol who's on the border and can make it in a good year. If he starts pretending like defense matters, well, then that's a different story. And if Nash's minutes are really going to be limited, we're going to see more of what he can do without Nash on the court and that will go a long way towards changing the perception of his own level of ability, which might well establish him as a pure All-Star, rather than an All-Star + qualification.

TXSun · Post #15 » by **TXSun** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 3:57 pm

[quote="tsherkin"]I don't think KG is a superstar anymore. I don't think he plays enough. He's a perennial All-Star and former superstar, just like the shine on Shaq's star has dimmed to the point where he's no longer even an All-Star.

Superstars? I think Wade, Lebron and Kobe are about it. Dirk's pretty close, IMO, but that's about it.

KG not a SuperStar? KG doesn't play enough? what season were you watching last year? All my respects, but I disagree with you on KG not being a SuperStar. Defensive player of the year and took his team to glory in the same season. I would call this past season his best season of his career. KG is the ultimate SuperStar just along LBJames and Kobe.

Post #16 » by **tsherkin** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 4:14 pm

TXSun wrote:
KG not a SuperStar? KG doesn't play enough? what season were you watching last year? All my respects, but I disagree with you on KG not being a SuperStar. Defensive player of the year and took his team to glory in the same season. I would call this past season his best season of his career. KG is the ultimate SuperStar just along LBJames and Kobe.

I would call it the most successful season of his career, not the best. He became more of a defensive specialist and he wasn't carrying his team, he was working within a team concept with an excellent supporting cast. It's semantics, of course, but I don't think he was doing enough to be considered a superstar. I suppose PER36, the only thing that's really gone down is his rebounding, so you could make the argument that if he'd been playing his usual minutes, he'd have produced at a 20/10/4 type level and, given his defense, he was still a superstar player.

But having watched the Finals, I think it was very clear that he was subordinate to BOTH Paul Pierce and Ray Allen in that series, and he shot like crap. I think that his performance there, coupled with his reduced role on offense and reduced minutes mean that he wasn't a full superstar last year.

walkingart · Post #17 » by **walkingart** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 6:59 pm

As much as I like to disagree and argue with tsherkin, I must confir with him here. KG is not a Superstar. I guess you could make the argument if the term Superstar was better defined. But if you are going to call Kobe and Lebron Superstars it is no fair to include any other players in the league except for CP3, unless you want to call Kobe/Lebron/CP3 SuperSuperStars, then go ahead and include a second tier of players.

In my opinion, in order to be a Superstar you must be the elite of the elite at all facets of the game. And Garnett is not nearly the offensive weapon he would need to be to be considered an elite scorer. He is not even the best offensive player on his own team. I would rate Pierce ahead of Garnett on the Superstar scale as well. Superstars want the ball when the game is on the line, and Garnett has shown throughout his career he does not want that pressure or responsibility. That is where I have props for Amare, I think he wants the ball in his hands when the game is on the line, I don't think he is ready for it, but the desire is there. No matter how great Garnett has been or ever will, he will never be a Superstar because it doesn't run through his veins or beat in his heart like it does the real Superstars to have played the game, guys like Jordan, Magic, and Bird.

TXSun · Post #18 » by **TXSun** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 8:00 pm

walkingart wrote:As much as I like to disagree and argue with tsherkin, I must confir with him here. KG is not a Superstar. I guess you could make the argument if the term Superstar was better defined. But if you are going to call Kobe and Lebron Superstars it is no fair to include any other players in the league except for CP3, unless you want to call Kobe/Lebron/CP3 SuperSuperStars, then go ahead and include a second tier of players.

In my opinion, in order to be a Superstar you must be the elite of the elite at all facets of the game. And Garnett is not nearly the offensive weapon he would need to be to be considered an elite scorer. He is not even the best offensive player on his own team. I would rate Pierce ahead of Garnett on the Superstar scale as well. Superstars want the ball when the game is on the line, and Garnett has shown throughout his career he does not want that pressure or responsibility. That is where I have props for Amare, I think he wants the ball in his hands when the game is on the line, I don't think he is ready for it, but the desire is there. No matter how great Garnett has been or ever will, he will never be a Superstar because it doesn't run through his veins or beat in his heart like it does the real Superstars to have played the game, guys like Jordan, Magic, and Bird.

wow KG not a SuperStar? I'm blown away by you both. Oh well I guess we have a different defenition of a SuperStar.

ma_falaa_50 · Post #19 » by **ma_falaa_50** » Tue Sep 9, 2008 8:33 pm

In my Opinion I think right know Kobe and pre-injury Dwayne Wade as he only bonifide superstars right now.