MIN - NJ

[shrink]

Simple trade, after December 15th:

MIN GETS: Sean Williams, Jarvis Hayes

NJ GETS: Ryan Gomes

Why for NJN: While Krstic is gone, NJN is overloaded at the big man spot. Josh Boone is the guy they like over Sean Williams, and according to their fans, they have liked what they've seen of Stromile Swift. In the off-season, they added Yi, and then drafted Brook Lopez and Ryan Anderson with their first round picks. Meanwhile, their choices for a starting SF are Bobby Simmons, Najera, or Jarvis Hayes. Gomes is a young, east coast, good character kid that is a clear improvement over those players.

Why for MIN: I'm a big fan of Gomes, but I'm concerned that he's going to be crowded out of playing time, particularly as our youth develop. At PF we've got Al Jefferson and Kevin Love, and we signed Craig Smith too. At SF, we have Mike Miller, Brewer, and Carney. I think by December we'll struggle to get Ryan the 25-30 minutes he showd last year that he deserves.

After a great start to the season, Sean Williams' star has fallen a bit for NJN. They say that he needs to add 15-20 pounds of muscle, learn his position better, and play more aggressively. However, no one discounts that he has tremendous potential. A center with potential is exactly something MIN could use, and we'd have the minutes to develop him -- something NJN does not. Williams is on the second year of his rookie deal (he was picked #17) for $1.5 mi, and Jarvis Hayes costs $1.9 mil, with a team option for next year, so he'd be an expiring.

[Winter Wonder]

Whether I think Williams is a true center or just another defensive minded power forward playing center in the weak east where true centers are all but unheard of (Howard is a power forward playing center, allbeit playing it very well), I would still say we would be better off doing this trade.

Williams can definitely play a bit of the center position (defesively especially) for us and has very nice athleticism for his size. He is young, and should fit in with the core group. Character issues will be a concern and not sure Taylor would be aboard on brining him in, but I think we are at a spot where we can take a chance on him. Hayes being an expiring essentially makes this deal work.

As for losing Gomes, that is tough to swallow, but you make a great argument. We have more than enough players to take up the minutes and SF is typically one of the easier positions to fill in the NBA. Additionally, as much as I really like Gomes as a glue/team guy, you pretty much know what you are going to get from him. He is a good player that is about at his ceiling due to where his athletic abilities put him and there is only so much more he can improve on in his game. Williams has the higher ceiling and is somewhat at a position of need since he can play center.

Hate losing Gomes, but hard not to say yes to this if Williams is past his past and is able to play up to his potential for entire seasons and not fade as he did.

[Devilzsidewalk]

thing is that the advantages WIlliams gives you as a help defender are negated by his inability to body up against the bigger frontcourt players, he doesn't have the strength. And he has very little offensively. I'd rather give the minutes to Kevin Love at center, he can't play help D, but he can rebound with centers, has the strength to keep them from abusing him around the rim, and has a lot to offer on offense. As a 3rd big man I'm content with Jason Collins until we can find a big 7 footer, 260 lb+ kinda guy like Collins w/ better skills. I don't want to go w/ another smaller guy, it won't be the kind of improvement Wolves need in the frontcourt.

[Gunny]

This is a definite yes. I wouldn't even think twice about it.

I think signing Gomes to such a long deal was a bad idea anyway.

[TheYounGunz]

This is a definite yes. I wouldn't even think twice about it.

I think signing Gomes to such a long deal was a bad idea anyway.

Isn't there a team option in 2010? If so i don't see what the big deal is. They could get out of the deal in 2 years. Big whoop

[C.lupus]

If we didn't already have 35 PF/Cs on this team I'd be more excited about this trade. As it stands, I'm for seeing how Al and Love do together while holding out hope that Thabeet lands here next year. Yeah, I know: pipe dream. But a rotation of Al/Love/Thabeet makes me salivate just thinking about it.

[JBoog35]

^^^ Agreed, I think we're set on PF/C's and I am a bigger fan of Gomes now. No way.

[Basti]

umm well... I really love Gomes on and off the court but we're a young team with holes to fill on our roster and if we have the opportunity to land an athletic big man with tons of upside I'm all for this deal. and as far as Williams' off court issues go I'd say smoking herbals isn't that much of an issue. I mean even Bassy had bigger off court issues prior to being traded here and he did well last year here off court.

plus: my roommate would cheer for the wolves because he is a big fan of Sean Williams

[shrink]

I don't worry about having so many other PF/C's because they aren't true options. Brian Cardinal, Calvin Booth, Chris Richard, and even Mark Madsen are guys we really don't want to see major minutes on the floor. Booth would probably be bought out regardless. We're supposed to be giving Jason Collins major minutes! Now, I would be happily surprised if he did OK, but I don't want to count on it. Craig Smith has the talent, but needs a front court defender alongside him to compensate for his lack of height .. and we don't have that player.

The way I see it, a three-man rotation of our bigs would be great, but behind Al and Kevin Love, we're really struggling. Having bench slots filled with guys that play that position, but are going to be beaten badly by the opposition, is worse than having no one at all.

Second question -- who would prefer Josh Boone to Sean Williams? He's more of a defensive big, no offense type guys, and the Nets prefer him over Williams. Heck, let's toss Brook Lopez in there too.

Rank the three guys as to how much you'd like them on the Wolves.

[TheYounGunz]

Sorry Shrink, Got a great NBA Trading Mind but i would be afraid to have you as the GM of the Wolves. We'd be seeing trades every week. This team would never have any chemistry together cause they would always be moving.

[andyhop]

I'd do the deal.

Gomes is someone who is a great bench guy for a contending team along the lines of Posey etc. ( not reflecting on specific roles just their usefullness), but the Celtics didn't win the title because they had Posey they won because they had KG and Pierce as the base of the team.

We don't have that base yet and so I'd take the chance on Williams becoming part of that base rather than keep the guy who will help out the team if they ever get it.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I don't worry about having so many other PF/C's because they aren't true options. Brian Cardinal, Calvin Booth, Chris Richard, and even Mark Madsen are guys we really don't want to see major minutes on the floor. Booth would probably be bought out regardless. We're supposed to be giving Jason Collins major minutes! Now, I would be happily surprised if he did OK, but I don't want to count on it. Craig Smith has the talent, but needs a front court defender alongside him to compensate for his lack of height .. and we don't have that player.

The way I see it, a three-man rotation of our bigs would be great, but behind Al and Kevin Love, we're really struggling. Having bench slots filled with guys that play that position, but are going to be beaten badly by the opposition, is worse than having no one at all.

Second question -- who would prefer Josh Boone to Sean Williams? He's more of a defensive big, no offense type guys, and the Nets prefer him over Williams. Heck, let's toss Brook Lopez in there too.

Rank the three guys as to how much you'd like them on the Wolves.

the only one of the three I've heard in trade rumors is Williams.

If I think of the ideal center within the realm of "silver standard", I'd come up with something along the lines of a guy like Brendan Haywood. Good size and good strength in the low post D, solid rebounder and shotblocker, and acceptable touch around the basket.

Now if you put Williams up against that standard, he really only meets one of those categories, shotblocking. If you compare Collins, he has the size/strength but nothing else. Thats a tie as far as I'm concerned.

And I still want to see more of Richard, he has pretty good size, not Haywood height, but great strength, so he gets partial credit, and he has shown brief flashes in the rebounding/shot blocking dept, so I'd like to give him a try over trading for someone who I know doesn't have the strength to bang with the biggums and doesn't rebound.

My frontcourt is Love (strength,rebounding, great offense)/ Jefferson. If there's a team w/ a giant frontcourt that Love can't handle (though I don't expect that scenario too often), then I bring in Collins. Williams won't help in that scenario, it doesn't make sense to bring him in against a bigger frontcourt.

And in the meantime I work in Chris Richard and maybe he emerges as the 3rd bigman. He is the next Ben Wallace afterall.

[Winter Wonder]

A quick ranking of those three (though I doubt Lopez is available in that package, though Boone may be possible) for myself would be Lopez, Boone, Williams in that order.

Lopez has most overall potential and most well rounded game (including size) of the three listed.

Boone is a defensive big with more inches than Williams and decent athleticism. He won't have the overall potential of Williams, but is more of a legit center and excels in an area we are most concerned about. Again though, I believe he has the lowest ceiling.

Williams would be third on this list. Great potential (though Lopez should have more due to size and definite position) and athleticism, but may be a glorified 4 and not a 5. If he can be a full-time center, this order may change, but since that is far from defnite, not so much.

Odd thing is, if it were Boone in place of Williams in this trade, I would almost feel that NJ should throw in more incentive. Maybe it's because Williams is perceived as having higher potential and a larger skill set? I am not sure, regardless, when talking Gomes for Boone/Hayes it sounds light as opposed to Gomes for Williams/Hayes seeming closer in value. Maybe its just all the Williams talk that is throwing value off in my mind. Either way, interesting idea.

[karch34]

Simple trade, after December 15th:

MIN GETS: Sean Williams, Jarvis Hayes

NJ GETS: Ryan Gomes

Why for NJN: While Krstic is gone, NJN is overloaded at the big man spot. Josh Boone is the guy they like over Sean Williams, and according to their fans, they have liked what they've seen of Stromile Swift. In the off-season, they added Yi, and then drafted Brook Lopez and Ryan Anderson with their first round picks. Meanwhile, their choices for a starting SF are Bobby Simmons, Najera, or Jarvis Hayes. Gomes is a young, east coast, good character kid that is a clear improvement over those players.

Why for MIN: I'm a big fan of Gomes, but I'm concerned that he's going to be crowded out of playing time, particularly as our youth develop. At PF we've got Al Jefferson and Kevin Love, and we signed Craig Smith too. At SF, we have Mike Miller, Brewer, and Carney. I think by December we'll struggle to get Ryan the 25-30 minutes he showd last year that he deserves.

After a great start to the season, Sean Williams' star has fallen a bit for NJN. They say that he needs to add 15-20 pounds of muscle, learn his position better, and play more aggressively. However, no one discounts that he has tremendous potential. A center with potential is exactly something MIN could use, and we'd have the minutes to develop him -- something NJN does not. Williams is on the second year of his rookie deal (he was picked #17) for $1.5 mi, and Jarvis Hayes costs $1.9 mil, with a team option for next year, so he'd be an expiring.

You bring up some good points and maybe by December you'll be correct in the logjam. I like Carney and Brewer but they haven't proved anything yet so it's hard to say right now I'd do that deal. I also agree with you that a lot of our C options really aren't.

[ecuhus1981]

There are some Nets fans who are still interested in Gomes, but most feel as I do, that he isn't enough of an upgrade of the ones we have now, to justify shipping out a promising player like Sean. I certainly understand MIN's perspective as well, that they don't need another young bigman unless he's a true C.

Honestly, I'm not Gomes is even a worthwhile upgrade over Hayes FOR US, considering the post-2010 implications of his contract. We also have Simmons, Hassell and Najera who can all play SF, so I don't think we'll be adding another unless he's a big upgrade.


P.S. Lopez does not even belong in this discussion. Thanks for the interest, though.

[shrink]

Honestly, I'm not Gomes is even a worthwhile upgrade over Hayes FOR US, considering the post-2010 implications of his contract.

Gomes' contract is not guaranteed in either 2010, or 2011.