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Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08

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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#41 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:52 am

All of those mistakes and bad plays were all things that happen normally in an NFL game. Tillman wasn't doing anything more than anybody else in that fight to warrant a call. Tillman would have had to pull a knife out to warrant that kind of penalty.


I agree it was a bad call, but I don't see how you can say "all those mistakes and bad players were all things that happen normally in an NFL game." and not realize that the retaliater in a fight in the NFL getting called for a penalty is also something that happens in NFL games, or that a bad penalty can hurt you in an NFL game. Those are things that happen in games too. In an OT loss where we squandered tons of chances there is blame to go around. The refs get some, but not the majority IMO.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#42 » by NLK » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:38 am

I agree Doug. This loss wasn't around just Tillman's fight, this was all around, coaching staff & players alike. The Game was there for the taking, and TB just saw it hanging in the balance when the BEARS couldn't seal the deal, and took it home in their briefcase. I remember saying this before the season began, Lovie Smith is on the hot seat, based on how things play out this year.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#43 » by WT » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:07 am

Susan wrote:Okay, I retract that it was his best pro game. It was the first time that I actually felt like Orton made significant progress towards becoming a good NFL quarterback. He didn't sulk after a terrible start and played pretty damn awesome in the 2nd half despite the O-Line being shaky.


If Orton could play like he did in the second half for the rest of the season I'd be happy. If anyone expects more than that they're only setting themselves up for disappointment.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#44 » by Chewie » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:11 am

NLK wrote:I remember saying this before the season began, Lovie Smith is on the hot seat, based on how things play out this year.


Love ya, NLK but I disagree with this.

Turner, maybe, but I think Lovie's secure. Basing this on nothing other than my gut.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#45 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:24 pm

Jerry Angelo should be on the hot seat more so than anyone else.

When he took this job he ripped the fact that we had no playmakers on offense. Since he's been here, the best playmaker we've had on offense is Bernard Berrian or Matt Forte, and he didn't keep Berrian. Our offensive skill positions may be worse now than when he arrived, and he made a special point to show how bad bad that was when he got here.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#46 » by TNBT » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:23 pm

I didn't see the game so I can't comment too strongly on this apparently bad call, but I have to say that this is getting very frustrating. As someone else said, we SHOULD be 3-0 at this point. I know we blew the Carolina game which was bad enough, but there is nothing I hate more than losing a game in any sport because of the refs.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#47 » by CBS7 » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:12 pm

Looking at the the rest of the schedule...

lose vs PHI, vs TEN, @ GB, @ MIN

win vs DET, @ STL, vs JAC, vs NO, vs GB, vs HOU

Probably lose won we should win but win one we should lose.

10-6 still. If we won those first two games like we should have, 13-14 wins wouldn't seem too out of the picture.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#48 » by Chewie » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:27 pm

these quotes are gold :

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/1177076,CST-SPT-bside22.article

Bucs say Bears hit below belt
Harris on tiffs that led to key penalty: You defend own against dirty players


September 22, 2008
BY BRAD BIGGS bbiggs@suntimes.com
Charles Tillman's 15-yard penalty for unnecessary roughness after he took a swing at Buccaneers wide receiver Michael Clayton was the end result of a disastrous melee that turned overtime in the Bucs' favor Sunday, but there are two sides to every story.

Tillman said it was a classic example of the second man in a scrape getting caught, but Bucs right tackle Jeremy Trueblood accused the Bears of precipitating the fray with some below-the-belt tactics.

''If you want me to be truthful with the situation, I don't know who it was, but they grabbed me in places they shouldn't have grabbed me after the play and that's what started the whole thing,'' Trueblood said. ''I think those guys take a lot of pride in what they do, and we take a lot of pride in what we do, but one thing I don't stand for is someone grabbing you in your genitals.''

Trueblood wrestled on the ground with defensive end Adewale Ogunleye and then the skirmish broke out that ended with Tillman trying to pull players off a pile before engaging with Clayton.

''I don't know who it was,'' Trueblood said. ''But whoever was beneath [me] paid the price. I was just doing what I do on a block. I was just laying on top of him, not moving. And then those guys ... we were kind of cool with the situation. That [stuff] happens on every play.

''Someone is going to grab and someone is going to poke. We were kind of letting it ride. I was going to get up, I was going to walk away.''

Bears defensive tackle Tommie Harris had a different take.

''If a dude does something to your teammate, you go in and help,'' Harris said. ''The referee saw whatever he wanted to see. One of the dudes was doing something dirty to Wale on the ground after the play. They didn't get the first down, so we could have been going off the field. They were down there fighting and then everybody jumped in.

''Would you leave your teammate? Would you leave your partner out there in war if you see somebody jumping on them? No, it's the principle. We're men, man.

''Regardless of that, if I see my teammate down there getting stomped, two dudes jumping on Wale, one dude and another jumped in, he better not just walk off. If they walk off while I'm down there, we've got a problem. They better at least pull the dude off of me.

''Everybody knows that; you don't just leave your teammate.''

Harris said the cheap play started with the Bucs three hours earlier, when guard Arron Sears shoved him after the whistle on the first play.

''Their line is dirty and we knew that coming in,'' Harris said. ''I guess they thought they were going to come in here and just think we were going to accept that. Like Trueblood blindsided me when the play was over with. [Trueblood] is dirty, he wants you to know that. Since he's not that talented and not that good, he wants you to know that, 'I'm the dirtiest player.'''
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#49 » by Cliff Levingston » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:32 pm

A lot of talking there from Tommie. He should probably think about backing that up a little although he did have a pretty good game. He didn't fill out the stat sheet but he blew up some plays with his penetration and was a big reason for the lack of a running game against us.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#50 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:33 pm

I think we look like an 8-8 team.

Offense isn't good enough to consistently take advantage of the opportunities the defense gives them, and the defense can't play 4 quarters and looks worn out by the 4th quarter. We have a good enough defense to stay in some games, and we'll get our breaks during the season as well, but we're far short of a great team right now.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#51 » by Chewie » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:15 pm

...the defense can't play 4 quarters and looks worn out by the 4th quarter.


The funny thing is that we rotate players like crazy so there's just no excuse for this.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#52 » by WT » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:08 am

dougthonus wrote:I think we look like an 8-8 team.

Offense isn't good enough to consistently take advantage of the opportunities the defense gives them, and the defense can't play 4 quarters and looks worn out by the 4th quarter. We have a good enough defense to stay in some games, and we'll get our breaks during the season as well, but we're far short of a great team right now.


I agree that we look like an 8-8 team, and this is at near full strength. A couple of injuries to the defense and things will start to slip quickly. You don't have to look any further than last year.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#53 » by Susan » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:11 am

WT wrote:
dougthonus wrote:I think we look like an 8-8 team.

Offense isn't good enough to consistently take advantage of the opportunities the defense gives them, and the defense can't play 4 quarters and looks worn out by the 4th quarter. We have a good enough defense to stay in some games, and we'll get our breaks during the season as well, but we're far short of a great team right now.


I agree that we look like an 8-8 team, and this is at near full strength. A couple of injuries to the defense and things will start to slip quickly. You don't have to look any further than last year.


Where they went 7-9 with 2 losses to the Detroit **** Lions thanks to Brian Greise's 8 ints.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#54 » by WT » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:23 am

Susan wrote:
WT wrote:
dougthonus wrote:I think we look like an 8-8 team.

Offense isn't good enough to consistently take advantage of the opportunities the defense gives them, and the defense can't play 4 quarters and looks worn out by the 4th quarter. We have a good enough defense to stay in some games, and we'll get our breaks during the season as well, but we're far short of a great team right now.


I agree that we look like an 8-8 team, and this is at near full strength. A couple of injuries to the defense and things will start to slip quickly. You don't have to look any further than last year.


Where they went 7-9 with 2 losses to the Detroit **** Lions thanks to Brian Greise's 8 ints.


I'm not sure what your point is. You didn't see a steep decline in the defense's performance from week 1 (dominance vs. the Chargers) as the injuries piled up? We went from being a Super Bowl team to a 7-9 team largely because of injuries. I'm not pointing out anything groundbreaking here- just the fact that this team that looks 8-8 now can quickly go to being 4-12 with a few injuries to the defense.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#55 » by TNBT » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:24 pm

Chewie wrote:these quotes are gold :

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/bears/1177076,CST-SPT-bside22.article

''Their line is dirty and we knew that coming in,'' Harris said. ''I guess they thought they were going to come in here and just think we were going to accept that. Like Trueblood blindsided me when the play was over with. [Trueblood] is dirty, he wants you to know that. Since he's not that talented and not that good, he wants you to know that, 'I'm the dirtiest player.'''




:lol: I love that. Great comedy, but it would still be a lot more fun to read if we had come away with the W.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#56 » by Cliff Levingston » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:13 pm

Cliff Levingston is just sickened by how the offense is proud to score FGs. Listen to Lovie or Orton to talk and it's like they'd rather get a FG than take a shot at getting a touchdown. You'd hope that sooner or later that they'd learn that they can't win anything meaningful without being able to score TDs.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#57 » by dougthonus » Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:57 pm

Cliff Levingston is just sickened by how the offense is proud to score FGs. Listen to Lovie or Orton to talk and it's like they'd rather get a FG than take a shot at getting a touchdown. You'd hope that sooner or later that they'd learn that they can't win anything meaningful without being able to score TDs.


I think the real important thing is making lasting drives and controlling the ball. Scoring TDs is important, but realistically, we just don't have the firepower to be a high octane offense. Our best WR is Brandon Lloyd who we picked up for the league minimum. Our QB is among the worst in the NFL, and our offensive line is shaky. If Matt Forte wasn't vastly exceeding expectations our offense would be scary bad, but Forte looks like the real deal.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#58 » by Cliff Levingston » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:30 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Cliff Levingston is just sickened by how the offense is proud to score FGs. Listen to Lovie or Orton to talk and it's like they'd rather get a FG than take a shot at getting a touchdown. You'd hope that sooner or later that they'd learn that they can't win anything meaningful without being able to score TDs.


I think the real important thing is making lasting drives and controlling the ball. Scoring TDs is important, but realistically, we just don't have the firepower to be a high octane offense. Our best WR is Brandon Lloyd who we picked up for the league minimum. Our QB is among the worst in the NFL, and our offensive line is shaky. If Matt Forte wasn't vastly exceeding expectations our offense would be scary bad, but Forte looks like the real deal.

True, but that's still no excuse to try to play for field goals. We'll sometimes be able to move the ball, then once we're in field goal range, they'll get conservative with it and settle for the FG. The only time we're ever aggressive offensively is if we're behind, and usually we're marginally successful with it but it ends up being too little too late.

If anything, the defense has proven the last couple of years that they'll fizzle out in the 4th quarter so we need to be able to put up points, and that doesn't come by kicking field goals.
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Re: Bears Postgame Thread 9.21.08 

Post#59 » by dougthonus » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:56 pm

True, but that's still no excuse to try to play for field goals. We'll sometimes be able to move the ball, then once we're in field goal range, they'll get conservative with it and settle for the FG. The only time we're ever aggressive offensively is if we're behind, and usually we're marginally successful with it but it ends up being too little too late.

If anything, the defense has proven the last couple of years that they'll fizzle out in the 4th quarter so we need to be able to put up points, and that doesn't come by kicking field goals.


I agree. I wouldn't want to settle for FGs. I'm just saying given our offense, it's hard to expect them to have great red zone efficiency given that they don't have great talent. We don't have any big physical receivers who are great RZ targets, we don't have a QB with much touch to throw the lob type passes. We don't have dominant athletes. We don't have a line that can generate a great push in goal line situations.

I agree we need to try for TDs rather than being conservative, but our offense is always going to be prone to fizzle particularly in the red zone.
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