Coro's New Update

[rsavaj]

http://s.azcentral.com/home/Blog/PaulCoro

A passage I thought was worth noting:

As for Marion, it is odd to not have him around. His reputation as a bad clubhouse guy was misplaced. Marion definitely felt that he was never appreciated enough and would let you know that, even if you were fully aware of his unique talents. Some people thought that he could be a downer on the locker room when he was focusing on that. But Marion was an amiable guy. I never saw him have cross words with a teammate, unless it was the usual locker room stuff like how he didn't owe someone money they said that he did. He had the art of making money down so he worked on the art of keeping it. If he was upset with a reporter, he would let them know face to face and it was bygones after that.

BRING HIM BACK!

[PHXfan85]

This dead horse is really starting to reek.

[-SDU-]

marions gone, time to get over it

he was amiable and told people their issues etc hey?

well shaq is a free spirit and doesnt just keep the status quo inthe locker room, he raises the level of good spirits

[mkot]

Why not? The point of this post is to tell those that's been saying Marion is a locker room cancer to shut up. I've heard enough the "Marion is a cancer" talk around here. It's ridiculous. You never heard Nash or Amare or any of his former teammates say anything bad about Marion even when he's gone. And he didn't bad mouth the organization after he's gone either. Do we really have to label him a cancer to justify the trade or something? There's a reason he got traded (i.e. money) but 'being a locker-room cancer' isn't one. I think I remember an article I read on suns.com come out saying he's usually the one organizes party and stuff like that and has good connection with teammates.

[rsavaj]

This dead horse is really starting to reek.

As is the enmity towards Shawn Marion.

[Phoenix1977]

This dead horse is really starting to reek.

As is the enmity towards Shawn Marion.

Ehhh...as a fan of the Suns, you have a right to feel betrayed by a guy who feels undervalued, and complains to anyone who will listen, regardless of the number of zeros on his paycheck.

[JohnVancouver]

This dead horse is really starting to reek.

As is the enmity towards Shawn Marion.

Ehhh...as a fan of the Suns, you have a right to feel betrayed by a guy who feels undervalued, and complains to anyone who will listen, regardless of the number of zeros on his paycheck.

---- Well, Shawn just seemed to be permanently irked that he was third for the spotlight after Nash and Amare, and no matter how much coaches and media praised his contributions and unique abilities, he felt slighted. I would get kind of weary of dealing with that, I think. No-one ever undervalued his contribution that i ever saw or heard of.
T paraphrase boss paul in Cool Hand Luke, i sure wish he could get his mind right ....

[HootieRules]

On the court, he'll be sorely missed. When Miami plays at Phoenix in late November it's going to be a weird scene. I hope the fans give the Matrix a standing ovation. He was apart of a lot of great seasons and he had a lot to do with it and he was fun to watch play. I'll take him over Shaq any day of the damn week and still can't believe we made that trade.

Off the court, that dude's ego is in for a rude awakening when he finds out exactly what the market is for him as far as his next contract goes.

[The Diesel]

I agree that Marion isn't worth what he thinks; he's going to really decline in a few years when he loses his athleticism because so much of his success is based on what a great athlete he is.

It's the same thing that happened to Shaq; he started to decline these last few years because he no longer has the incredible athleticism he used to have.

They're not like Tim Duncan in the sense that Duncan can easily play at a very high level into his late 30's because he's never relied on his athleticism.

I agree the trade was a mistake, but Coro mentioned today that Kerr was initially reluctant to make the trade and had to be convinced by D'Antoni and some of the players.

Remember, Nash and Amare wanted the trade to happen.

But I don't think the trade was as bad as some people have said; remember, once D'Antoni started to use Shaq better and the team got used to playing together, they finished the season winning 15 of their last 20 games, had a 7 game winning streak, and Shaq averaged 11 rebounds a game for Phoenix which is what they brought him in to do.

If Hill was healthy in the playoffs and Duncan doesn't hit that 3 pointer in Game 1, things might have turned out very differently and Kerr would have looked like a genius.

But I was disappointed in Shaq's play in the playoffs; I just don't understand how he played so poorly against the Spurs when you consider that he played two outstanding games against them after the trade in the regular season.

He only played well in Games 2 and 4 in the playoffs...he was AWFUL in Games 1,3, and 5.

If Porter uses him better and the team stays healthy, I think the trade won't look as bad as some people have said.

[lilfishi22]

I agree the trade was a mistake, but Coro mentioned today that Kerr was initially reluctant to make the trade and had to be convinced by D'Antoni and some of the players.

Remember, Nash and Amare wanted the trade to happen.

I was always under the impression that Kerr wanted the trade but D'Antoni didn't, since Shaq was clearly not the type of player that could play in D'Antoni's system.

Marion has done a lot for the organization and I do hope he get's get standing ovation he deserves when we play Heats in Nov. I'm not sure I totally believe that whole locker room cancer thing, but I certainly can't disregard it since there were so many sources claiming it. But like they say, what happens in the locker room, stays in the locker room.

[-SDU-]

Why not? The point of this post is to tell those that's been saying Marion is a locker room cancer to shut up. I've heard enough the "Marion is a cancer" talk around here. It's ridiculous. You never heard Nash or Amare or any of his former teammates say anything bad about Marion even when he's gone. And he didn't bad mouth the organization after he's gone either. Do we really have to label him a cancer to justify the trade or something? There's a reason he got traded (i.e. money) but 'being a locker-room cancer' isn't one. I think I remember an article I read on suns.com come out saying he's usually the one organizes party and stuff like that and has good connection with teammates.

we both know though that any real fans of the suns knew that marion wasnt the way that the media portrayed but that there was an element of truth to it.

just as there is an element of truth to the fact that amare and raja may have rubbed each other up the wrong ways sometimes, these things happen.

shawn was in no way a cancer, i loved having him here, he is one of my all time favourite suns, BUT he did feel underloved and did constantly need compliments and praise and at times this surely had to undermine relationships in the locker room, but he WAS professional about it and thats all we could ask

ive got mad love for Shawn tho, but i dont think its incorrect to say that shaq has a more positive affect on the locker room than shawn did. thats obvious

[-SDU-]

I agree the trade was a mistake, but Coro mentioned today that Kerr was initially reluctant to make the trade and had to be convinced by D'Antoni and some of the players.

Remember, Nash and Amare wanted the trade to happen.

I was always under the impression that Kerr wanted the trade but D'Antoni didn't, since Shaq was clearly not the type of player that could play in D'Antoni's system.

dantoni has been quoted on the record as saying he was the more vocal one wanting the trade to get done

there is no doubt at all the suns fans will give shawn a standing ovation. suns ledgends always do, like barkley, majerle etc after they left

[The Diesel]

dantoni has been quoted on the record as saying he was the more vocal one wanting the trade to get done

He also said after he left Phoenix that he has no regrets about the trade and he would do it again because Shawn was unhappy and he felt the team had gotten stale.

He also said he felt "Shaq helped us."

[mkot]

I agree the trade was a mistake, but Coro mentioned today that Kerr was initially reluctant to make the trade and had to be convinced by D'Antoni and some of the players.

Remember, Nash and Amare wanted the trade to happen.

I was always under the impression that Kerr wanted the trade but D'Antoni didn't, since Shaq was clearly not the type of player that could play in D'Antoni's system.

dantoni has been quoted on the record as saying he was the more vocal one wanting the trade to get done

There's no direct quote comoing out from MikeD's mouth saying he's the more vocal one wanting Shaq. Regardless of what sources are claiming, everything point to him wasn't the one who wanted Shaq most. He doesn't like having to answer questions about Shaq, doesn't like the idea of working him in mid-season or tweaking the offense, doesn't like the fact that we're going bigger.... I just get the feeling like he's going along with this because hes got no choice. They can report that he was signing off on the deal even before Kerr and he's the one pushing the hesitated Kerr to get it done, but I don't believe that. Everything he's done/said after the trade implies that he isn't the one pushing for the trade before Kerr/Sarver.

We know Kerr and MikeD have had their discussions about the direction of the team before the trade and how defense needs to improve. We know Kerr has mentioned throughout last year that we need to get better defensively and could use a defensive big. We know MikeD has been stubborn to a fault when it comes to playing defensive players or going big to try and match-up. This is a guy who begrudgingly played KT against TD 2 years and then regretted it, saying we played to their strengths instead of going small and running. This is a guy who brought back small ball and run and gun and has never wavered in his belief that a smaller, quicker, offensive-minded team can win it all.

Then all of a sudden he's pushing for Shaq? Just seems fishy to me.

viewtopic.php?p=16419744#p16419744

MikeD was on PTI yesterday and briefly talked about the Shaq deal too. He basically said the reason why things got turned around to make it seem like MikeD had to convince Kerr about Shaq is because the media jumped on the idea of MikeD being hesitant. So Kerr came out and was like if anything he convinced Mike and he was the reluctant one. Kerr came out in the media to defend MikeD as to make it looked like they're on the same page.

He support the trade, and he had to anyway. But the talk of him being the one to convince a hesitate Kerr to pull the trigger is simply not true. That's just the way they tried to save face.

[mkot]

ive got mad love for Shawn tho, but i dont think its incorrect to say that shaq has a more positive affect on the locker room than shawn did. thats obvious

This thread has nothing to do with Shaq. And I concur that Shaq brings good stuff into the locker room. I'm just saying, Marion isn't a cancer, as some has said around here.

[-SDU-]

when were talking about marion, and the OP says he wants him back based on the article, then i think its completely fair to bring up the positive side about him leaving

marion is definately not a cancer, but i do think he was just slightly on the negative side of a neutral affect on the room

[TXSun]

God dammit people! we were not going to win it with Shawn, that's it! And yes I hope PHX fans give him a standing ovation. he did great things for the city of PHX.

[-SDU-]

sad thing is, all things being fair i think we COULD have won it in 07

without suspensions (which stern said he had his hands tied and had to uphold the "letter of the law" but then failed to uphold that "letter of the law" when dealing with refs who gambled and garnett, perkins etc in last years first round playoff altercation with the hawks) and a crooked ref that suns team could have beaten the spurs

and even if not, we were the second best team that year, with shawn, we were definately a championship caliber team and noone can say we couldnt have won with that squad

unfortunately the gasol trade last year changed the scope of the west and small ball would no longer be enough to win against the top in the west and a change was made

[lilfishi22]

Mkot-
That was what I always thought. Considering Dantoni's stubbornness to change defensive schemes or put a bigger focus on defense, it seems very uncharacteristic of him to make a sudden turnaround and say he was the one pushing for the Shaq trade. I also thought that Marion was one of Dantoni's favorite players because of his versatility and the fact that his defensive intensity does not affect his offense.

It had definitely been reported that Dantoni and Kerr wanted to go in different directions despite certain articles claiming this was BS. But if you look at them two, they were clearly different in terms of the way they played in their respective careers and brought with them their own basketball philosophies. Kerr had played on teams like the Spurs and Bulls, both being excellent defensive teams. IMO having Shaq in Phoenix was definitely a Kerr move and fits with his philosophy. But whether they had the "rift" or not, it's hard to imagine that having a slow big man, who specializes in a half-court game, was what D'Antoni wanted. But since what's done is done, he had to go along with it.

As for our chances with Marion vs Shaq, I've said many times before, we took our Run-N-Gun style to the very limits of it's efficiency and productivity. Teams were starting to figure us out and made trades to get bigger. We were already in a decline before Kwame-Gasol trade and the emergence of NOH. That being said, I think that if Marion didn't have his issues, we may not have made the trade and probably would've gotten a lower seed in the playoffs. However, it's not his fault or his skillet that made us weak in the playoffs, its the coaching of D'Antoni and his reluctance to play defense.

[The Diesel]

The reason the 2007 team had a great chance to win was because they had Kurt Thomas who wasn't on the 2008 team.

Also, Sarver pointed out the 8-12 record this year pre-trade against the top teams as the reason why he doesn't regret the trade.

Yes, Phoenix struggled a lot in the beginning after the trade, but one of the reasons was they had to play teams like the Hornets, Lakers, Pistons, and Jazz pretty soon after the trade while the team was still figuring out how to play with Shaq.

I still feel the Spurs got extremely lucky that Hill got injured and Duncan hit that 3 pointer. I doubt Parker would have scored 41 points in Game 3 if Hill was 100%.

I STILL haven't gotten over that Game 1 loss. So many frustrating moments in that game which might have completely changed that series if Phoenix won that game.

- Blowing a 16 point lead

- Shaq leaving Duncan wide-open to hit his 3 pointer

- Amare not switching on Finley on Finley's 3 pointer to send it into OT

- Diaw missing a game-winning shot at the end of the game

- Barbosa missing a game-winning shot at the end of the first over-time

- Shaq's stupid goal-tending on Finley's 3 pointer which looked like it wasn't going in

- Amare fouling out when the team was up by 3 points with 15 seconds left when he charged into Kurt Thomas instead of passing the ball to Shaq who was WIDE OPEN under the basket.

- Why was Barbosa guarding Finley on his game-tying 3 pointer when Grant Hill was available? Even Jeff van Gundy was surprised that Hill wasn't in the game at that point to guard Finley instead of Barbosa.

Honestly, even though that game was very close, I knew right after the game ended that Phoenix wasn't going to win the series even though it was only Game 1.

Even Jon Barry mentioned after the game that he wondered how Phoenix would recover from such a heart-breaking loss and he mentioned that it was a "lingering" loss and I agreed with him at the time and still do.

I don't know whether the team ever recovered from losing that game.