Game 4 - Packers @ Bucs - 9/28/08 - 12 PM CDT

[ReasonablySober]

Didn't see the game, didn't listen, won't comment. I will say that I picked TB in my pool today and the outcome was of no surprise to me.

[MadCityBucky]

AJ Hawk with a torn groin per Jay Glazer.

[El Duderino]

The ugly

Offensive line---- They were offensive again, even worse than last week. Opened very few holes in the running game, Rodgers rarely had any time to throw, and down 2 points with a chance to steal a win a defensive end was unblocked and forced the last INT.

Frost----He was miserable all game. Short no hang time punts each time we were backed up deep and needed a big punt to help with field position. When we were around the 50 and needed Frost to pin the Bucs deep, he failed also. Dumping Ryan for Frost has been a bad mistake so far.

Defense vs the run---Dallas ran all over us and so did Tampa. An ugly mix of to many holes for their backs to run through and absolutely atrocious tackling. The offense being unable to keep the ball didn't help on a hot day.

Grant----The line did him no favors with yet again scarce amount of holes, when there were holes though, he instead ran into piles of bodies. Back breaking fumble for 7 Tampa points.

Flynn/backup QB---Rodgers better not have to miss games, Flynn isn't close to being ready. Not his fault, but we can't run the ball well enough to score points with a rookie 7th round pick playing QB instead of learning on the bench where he belongs.


The good

Woodson was fabulous again, what a money player

Collins did drop an easy pick, but he's finally playing up to his immense athletic skills. He was all over the field and showing instincts that i questioned if would ever show up.

I thought Tramon Williams played well and so did Blackmon

Jennings is such a stud

[MadCityBucky]

Can I make the GT this time?

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=800243

This bye week can't come soon enough. But if they lose to Atlanta, my god...

[xTitan]

I think Rodgers will play next sunday, and it will be up to the pathetic offensive line to give him some time and more importantly to open up some holes. Jennings was fairly harsh in his criticism which seemed to be aimed at the offensive line quite a bit but he made 1 great point and that is players need to start being held accountable for all there mental/physical mistakes.

I am extremely worried about the injuries of Jenkins and Hawk. Jenkins is the ONLY DL that puts consistent pressure on the QB, without him Sanders pathetic defense will be systematically destroyed.

[El Duderino]

I am extremely worried about the injuries of Jenkins and Hawk. Jenkins is the ONLY DL that puts consistent pressure on the QB, without him Sanders pathetic defense will be systematically destroyed.

I think you're being a bit unfair to Kampman. I haven't paid close attention to him on every single passing down, but i've watch him enough that i've seen him either get doubled or chipped a lot, more than anyone else on the defensive line.

The reason i'd assume for that, especially when teams throw on 1st/2nd down, offenses only have to account for our ends. On third and long situations, Jenkins moves inside so teams have to account for an interior pass rusher. On the vast majority of 1st/2nd downs when teams pass, none of Cole/Pickett/Jolly are providing any push or pressure at all, so offenses can slide an extra blocker to Kampman. I already knew that neither Pickett/Cole can do anything vs the pass, but i've been disappointed in Jolly, he's providing no pass rush either. If Jenkins misses time, we'll have the worst group of pressure causing defensive tackles in the NFL.

As for Sanders, i've never been a fan either. Yesterday, he sent a few blitzes and no surprise, they didn't get to Griese. Sending a LB or two straight up the gut is pretty much the extent of Sanders blitz schemes. I almost fell off the chair when he sent Woodson that one time.

[xTitan]

I am extremely worried about the injuries of Jenkins and Hawk. Jenkins is the ONLY DL that puts consistent pressure on the QB, without him Sanders pathetic defense will be systematically destroyed.

I think you're being a bit unfair to Kampman. I haven't paid close attention to him on every single passing down, but i've watch him enough that i've seen him either get doubled or chipped a lot, more than anyone else on the defensive line.

The reason i'd assume for that, especially when teams throw on 1st/2nd down, offenses only have to account for our ends. On third and long situations, Jenkins moves inside so teams have to account for an interior pass rusher. On the vast majority of 1st/2nd downs when teams pass, none of Cole/Pickett/Jolly are providing any push or pressure at all, so offenses can slide an extra blocker to Kampman. I already knew that neither Pickett/Cole can do anything vs the pass, but i've been disappointed in Jolly, he's providing no pass rush either. If Jenkins misses time, we'll have the worst group of pressure causing defensive tackles in the NFL.

As for Sanders, i've never been a fan either. Yesterday, he sent a few blitzes and no surprise, they didn't get to Griese. Sending a LB or two straight up the gut is pretty much the extent of Sanders blitz schemes. I almost fell off the chair when he sent Woodson that one time.

I actually have watched Kampman quite a bit and I usually watch games with a couple people and Kampman simply is not playing very well. AK has gotten a couple sacks but usually the result of good coverage, Jenkins has been the only consistent pass rusher. I am definitely not giving up on AK, just disappointed in his performance thus far. One more thing, its time in passing situations to use AK, Jenkins and a tackle, then throw out a LB or more and do some zone blitzing. KGB is basically worthless, I though in camp he might get cut and I think he should have, he has done nothing but jump offside, I want to see extra LB's or safety's and blitz from different directions. I just can't take this base 4-3 crap anymore, no pressure, no stopping the run.....Sanders is killing this defense, basically being saved by Woodson and Collins at this point.

[El Duderino]

I actually have watched Kampman quite a bit and I usually watch games with a couple people and Kampman simply is not playing very well. AK has gotten a couple sacks but usually the result of good coverage, Jenkins has been the only consistent pass rusher. I am definitely not giving up on AK, just disappointed in his performance thus far. One more thing, its time in passing situations to use AK, Jenkins and a tackle, then throw out a LB or more and do some zone blitzing. KGB is basically worthless, I though in camp he might get cut and I think he should have, he has done nothing but jump offside, I want to see extra LB's or safety's and blitz from different directions. I just can't take this base 4-3 crap anymore, no pressure, no stopping the run.....Sanders is killing this defense, basically being saved by Woodson and Collins at this point.

I think the secondary as a whole has played very well vs the pass, even with all the injuries. The leaky run defense and lack of any creativity on the pass rush is what bothers me.

People on this board obviously don't agree on Corey Williams. I wanted Ted to extend Williams before last season started before he'd get to expensive, but it didn't happen, so we are where we are. Sanders had to be smart enough though to realize that Williams was the only DT who could consistently rush the passer, the rest of the tackles are fat bodied run stuffers. So i had hoped that Sanders would try to come up with some more creative blitz schemes for games when the ends aren't getting pressure given that except for when Jenkins slides inside on 3rd and long, our DT's do little more than stand in place and hope to bat passes down. When our ends get slowed, QB's can read a book before deciding when to throw.

Sadly, Sanders blitz packages for the most part still consists of only three blitzes

1. Send Barnett up the gut

2. Send Hawk up the gut

3. Send both Barnett and Hawk up the gut

Big shock the few blitzes rarely even get there, offenses have seen them on film over and over. Then i watch other teams with creative defensive coordinators and i get jealous. I get far less bothered by the low number of blitzes than i do with the lack of creativity when Sanders does actually call a blitz. When i watch creative coordinators, they obviously have a more wide array of different blitz packages built into the overall scheme, thus blitzers sometimes come flying in untouched because the line either is confused or surprised. How many times do we see that when we blitz, once every few weeks?

Not only does the lack of varied blitz packages hurt when we do actually blitz because rarely is the offensive line or QB surprised/confused by who is coming, we almost never fake blitzes that cause the offense to check wrongly out of the play they had intended to run. No defense in the NFL succeeds almost entirely because of creating confusion, talent and consistently playing solid fundamental football are the biggest keys. That said, just like an offensive uses multiple formations and personal groupings in an attempt to disguise their intentions, if a defense doesn't throw varied looks to an offense, they become predictable, especially on the pass rush. Like i said before, when Sanders sent Woodson on that slot blitz, i was completely stunned.

Sanders is going to have to eventually come up with something. Last season, the basic 4 man rush was good the first half of the year when the defensive line was still fresh. Once C.Williams and Kampman wore down later in the season after playing a ton of snaps, most of the pass rush vanished and Sanders didn't adjust accordingly. Now Williams and his interior pass rush is gone, KGB doesn't look the same after the knee injury, and if Jenkins misses any time, the defense will be down to Kampman as the only defensive lineman who is able to rush the passer.

[Rockmaninoff]

I just can't take this base 4-3 crap anymore, no pressure, no stopping the run.....Sanders is killing this defense, basically being saved by Woodson and Collins at this point.

So you're saying that perhaps the Packers should experiment with a 3-4 formation? I thought it would take until around the 8th game of the season, but nevertheless, I think you are correct.

Let's see Luke, bad offensive line play, a shallow defensive line which could lead to a switch to 3-4, inconsistant pocket awareness from Rodgers, Chicago better than Minnesota, and Tennessee the darkhorse of the AFC. Toot, toot.