Felton vs Augustin

[fatlever]

yeah, i did it.

i figured i'd go ahead and make a pre-emptive thread for when the arguments start.

felton is 0-7 so far in preseason and LB started DJ to begin the second half of the memphis game. how long of a leash does LB give felton if he continue his old bad habits (forcing too many jumpers, not running offense, not getting ball down low)?

[fluffernutter]

I'm not going to "go there" until at least 20 real games have been played.

[Walt Cronkite]

Finally!

This is looooong overdue, I was going to make one early in the morning because I was playin 2k and DJ is SOOOOO much better individually and at running a team than Ray. Ship that dude out for a scrub and a 1st round pick and start scouting that huge white Serbian pg Deangelo Mbah a Moute that undoubtably will be rocking an afro when we draft him.





In all seriousness, I put very little stock in preseason benchings and results. Felton deserves to be on a short leash, but it's unrealistic to expect him to break some of his old habits and start trusting his teammates to do the right thing already. I'm very pleased that the drop off from Ray is still a player with all around talents like DJ and not McMinus or BK.

[freakon0mics]

Mid season would be a good time to compare these two. Hopefully whomever out plays the other can help this team get to the playoffs.

[SteveMorrison15]

I've noticed a few times that BCP posts the same thread that are posted here. Thankfully, never any thread concerning a comic...but I just wanted to point that out.

note: I will get heat from this. sorry Z

[fatlever]

haha. i noticed that steve. but i think they they beat me to the punch on the felton v dj thing. but, in all fairness, i posted this before i saw the one on bcp. i only check there about once a week. i guess like minds think alike. its not like you guys didnt know this was coming. i said back in july i would start this thread as a way to contain what we all know is coming.

i wouldnt be surprised if someone already posted a thread about okafor living in an alternate state of reality this morning. i am usually late to the party when it comes to posting news related stuff.

[Bassman]

Well, it's a sad statement when such a post must come so early in this season. But who can hide the things we see with our own eyes? I know it's a new system, but it's still basketball. No matter how good DJ is, he's a rookie, and Felton should be outplaying a rookie in a way that is obvious so early in the preseason. But it's not happening. Felts is playing better defense, and DJ is too turnover prone, but he is developing more opportunities for his teamates. We shall see what develops but who knows where this will go if the team begins the regular season as poorly as they've started so far.

[fatlever]

bassman... random question, but what transfer took you to missouri. i know a few people that transferred from charlotte to st louis when wachovia merged with/bought ag edwards. just curious.

[fluffernutter]

I think the biggest real concern with DJ is defensive. He's small and slight, though quick. But all NBA point guards are quick. And a lot of them are a lot taller, stronger, and broader. Felton is at worst an average defender at PG; stats say he is actually better than average. (put him at 60 on a scale of 1 to 100, where 50 is average). Nothing spectacular, but solid.

I'm just wondering how DJ is going to fare against veteran NBA PG's. I'm honestly worried. You have to be insanely good to make up for lack of stature and strength on the NBA level, and ... well... we shall see how DJ handles it. I hope he does great, but it's something to keep an eye on.

Particularly after what I saw with McInnis last year or, perhaps more accurately, Boykins. Boykins was simply tragic on defense; he never could make up the difference, no matter how well he shot or distributed. DJ is much taller than Boykins, thank god.

[Rich4114]

Oh wow, out of all people to start this thread.... it's almost not worth me saying anything until Hamilton shows up, I wouldn't feel right.

Ah screw it I'll go....

The only game play i've seen myself so far has been the last quarter and a half of the magic game where we were down by like 100. Same old story against that team eh? I got to see DJ the whole time mainly and he looked a little shakey. Felton came in the beggining of the 4th and was involved in one or two offensive plays and then Brown went with some 3rd stringers after about 45 seconds, lol. I think it'd be foolish to base anything about this season on whatever we see at this stage in the pre-season, and I think most would agree.

Felton played very well the last 25 games or so of the season and if he can play on that level and make some improvements then he should be the starter and get the most minutes. If DJ can come in and play better than that, then we've got a pretty good problem which is two really good PG's with not enough playing time for one.

All I want is quality players at all positions and enough depth to hold up to an NBA season. We need to have good PG play and good big man play to win. I think we've got that covered for the most part, but we lack experienced depth up front.

[spectre_]

Queen City Hoops

Against ORL & Nelson DJ was atrocious defensively:

Augustin as an individual contributor, well, he did not contribute much. 2 points, 3 assists, 2 turnovers. Oh and the defense allowed ~140 points per 100 possessions with him on the court, compared to ~104 with Raymond.

Against MEM he did a lot better:

DJ had a defensive efficiency of 96.0, while Raymond was at 116.3

The Memphis guards weren't as physical, and (tho I didn't see it) I doubt Memphis played as good at man defense as Orlando did.

DJ's defense was the main thing that I originally thought would hold him back this year, but with LB preaching D so heavily maybe the learning curve won't be as bad. I've already seen him fighting thru screens vs. trying to go under them.

[e4Nf6]

Right now I can't think of a 6'0 ish guard in the NBA that could be considered a "good" defensive player. Some of them make up for it by getting steals but most of them are just bad, and have to be VERY good on offense to make up for it.

[BigSlam]

Right now I can't think of a 6'0 ish guard in the NBA that could be considered a "good" defensive player. Some of them make up for it by getting steals but most of them are just bad, and have to be VERY good on offense to make up for it.

That's why it's so important to have all 5 guys clued in an accountable on D. If DJ was out there with Hammer, Ammo, McMay and Nazzy we would be in trouble, but with Swish, Crash and EO50, hopefully he wont be abused as much.

[Paydro70]

I agree e4, if you think about the good defensive PGs in this league (Devin Harris, Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups, Jason Kidd (sometimes)) they're all +6'3". Perhaps the only guy who's 6' and you can make an argument for as a very good defender is Allen Iverson.

Still, Ray is at least decent, I think it's going to be tough for DJ even to reach that level.

[BigSlam]

But for every Devin Harris or Chauncey Billups who is a +6'3" good defender there is a Jose Calderon or Steve Nash who is +6'3" and a bad defender.

Sometimes it's not about the size of the dog in the fight, it's about the size of the fight in the dog.

[doc.end]

Oh wow, out of all people to start this thread.... it's almost not worth me saying anything until Hamilton shows up, I wouldn't feel right.

Same old story against that team eh?

This actually a reason why I usually rooting for the other pg than Ray as long as it is not hurting the team. I tend to believe we have a history of overprotecting former UNC players and it may hurt the team overall. For example i think Sean May shouldn't be on roster long time ago. I'm really afraid that everytime when there is a player competing with Felton we kind of limiting him hurting the potential he can have for the team. i like Felton as a player but if there would be a better option for the team than him as the starting PG, I would have no problem with it. I would even be for a trade trading these concerns out forever if we get equeal value in return.

(I'm not hating UNC or anything. But since I'm not a local, I'm not rooting for it either. But I don't like if thecinnection is influencing the Bobcats way too much. It is not always a good thing.)

[Felton for Pres]

I don't think its protecting former UNC players as much as it is protecting former high draft picks (its just coincidence that two of them are UNC players). One of the hardest things for teams to do in the NBA is admit they made a back pick. Look at how long it took DET to punt Darko and WASH to punt Kwame.

[spectre_]

I don't think its protecting former UNC players as much as it is protecting former high draft picks (its just coincidence that two of them are UNC players). One of the hardest things for teams to do in the NBA is admit they made a back pick. Look at how long it took DET to punt Darko and WASH to punt Kwame.

Try ANY pick...not just one. It'd be nice if at least one pick Bernie/MJ made actually panned out to their full potential. Sadly it's not looking that way; I doubt we could trade any one of our lottery picks for an equal pick in an upcoming draft (maybe Mek in the Bargnani draft...but with adding Mek's salary to the mix I'm not even sure of that).

Our best choice was the non pick where we brought in Swish. Maybe Jordan should just stick with that.

[fatlever]

sad but true spectre... but there is one pick who has played above expectation of where he was picked, imo, and that is dudley.

[fluffernutter]

Whoever scouted and signed "the claw" did a good job.

That's the only other bright spot.

(of course we traded him...)