Who's Drinking the 'Hibbert Aid'?

[Scoot McGroot]

Mike Wells certainly is starting to at the Indystar.

http://blogs.indystar.com/pacersinsider ... littl.html

The move that sold me was in the fourth quarter against Memphis on Monday.

Hibbert caught the ball in the post against I think Marc Gasol. That's when Hibbert did a move that immitated something Hakeem Olajuwon would do.

Hibbert gave a quick fake toward the middle of the lane to get the defender leaning one way. He turned back toward the baseline and shot a fade-away jumper.

The move obviously wasn't as good as Hakeem's but it still made the scouts sitting beside me almost fly out of their seat.

One scout said, "He's going to be tough to stop if he gets that move down."

A few other interesting tidbits in the article as well. Worth a click.



So, how many here are looking at Hibbert to play major minutes from the beginning? What would you ideally like to see out of him this year? What do you realistically look to see out of him this season?

[count55]

It's still early in the preseason, but I think there's a decent chance that he'll start the season as the primary backup Center. You can't be sure, because preseason playing time (or success) is far from a solid indicator of what will happen once the regular season starts, but he certainly isn't doing anything to damage his chances so far.

If Hibbert can earn the same kind of role that Reggie Miller had his rookie season: a backup playing about 22 minutes a night while clearly being groomed to replace the veteran starter, then I would consider that an unqualified success.

Long term, I'm hoping he can be a good productive starting Center in the league. It's difficult to really come up with an apt comparison that doesn't create confusion (either too positive or too negative), but maybe the later careers of guys like Ilgauskas or Cartwright would be in the ball park. (Those are somewhat problematic, as well.)

[Scoot McGroot]

I'm kind of thinking he'll have a rookie season much like Erick Dampier did here, but with a much more cerebral approach that brings him into the coaches good graces as opposed to a low b-ball iq that forces the coaches to not trust him.

He'll probably end up averaging about 10-15 minutes a night when all is said and down (when averaged out over the entire course of the year) and he'll be mostly counted on for his defensive presence. He'll probably average about 4 rebounds and a block a night, while scoring mostly off of put backs, and an occasional low post move. He'll work his way into play crunch-time defense, and eventually be groomed to be a long-term answer at center that you could build a defensive approach around. He likely won't ever be an all-star, but he'll likely always be one of those super useful players that you love to have around.

[HicksvsKnicks08]

Scoot,

I dont know how to go back and find it , but I predicted right after the draft that Hibbert would average 12pts 7 rbs and 1.5bks his first year. Premention maybe, but I just felt he was underused in college and was not near as stiff as people made him out to be. Inf act I remember seeing a video against either UCON or ND where he faced up the opposing center at the foul line , corssed over his dribble for a reverse lay-up! I knew once I heard about his work ethic that he would have a chance to become a stud. I think in 3 years he will be a top 5 center in the East

[Wizop]

He'll probably end up averaging about 10-15 minutes a night when all is said and down (when averaged out over the entire course of the year) and he'll be mostly counted on for his defensive presence. He'll probably average about 4 rebounds and a block a night, while scoring mostly off of put backs, and an occasional low post move.

I've only seen him play one game but I think when he's in there you will see more than an occasional low post move. I think we'll try and play inside out when he's in the game. I agree with your minutes projection though.

[Scoot McGroot]

Scoot,

I dont know how to go back and find it , but I predicted right after the draft that Hibbert would average 12pts 7 rbs and 1.5bks his first year. Premention maybe, but I just felt he was underused in college and was not near as stiff as people made him out to be. Inf act I remember seeing a video against either UCON or ND where he faced up the opposing center at the foul line , corssed over his dribble for a reverse lay-up! I knew once I heard about his work ethic that he would have a chance to become a stud. I think in 3 years he will be a top 5 center in the East

I think I remember that highlight, and the one thing I remember is that it was so slow developing that my first thought was that there's not a chance in hell he would've gotten that off in the NBA.

[mizzoupacers]

It's been pretty encouraging so far, but let's see what he does when the Pacers start playing some real games.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

I think he has a chance to become an All-Star Center. Now, key word being "chance". I see a lot of potential with him, especially in a league where defensive Centers are looked highly upon. He has the I.Q., work ethic, and height to really make it big in this league. Now if he will, I don't know, but I expect him to be a cornerstone for our future.

[notque]

In all seriousness, I think that if you were to put Hibbert vs. Oden right now, Hibbert would win the matchup.

Where will Hibbert end up? Don't know, but if Oden is a starting center, Hibbert is as well. We are likely not going to be a very good team this year, so I would prefer we just start Hibbert and have him play 25-30 a game.

In fake basketball (NBA2k9) I am using Hibbert as a starter, and I can't see it any other way. When looking at matchups on a day to day basis, it's extremely difficult to make an argument that defensively we can use any other matchup.

I find so far that my favorite big matchup is C Hibbert, PF Foster. The reasoning is that Hibbert can provide some low post offense, and defense while Foster works the rebounds. It's been a good system, and both can D up on the other man.

If I try Rasho or Murphy, I end up with a team with one really bad defensive matchup on the post, and get beaten pretty badly.

I like Murphy and Rasho a lot, but it's hard to justify having another Big who specializes in the mid range game when you have TJ / Dunleavy / Granger who need shots. The only way you can open up their shots is to go into the post to force the defense to react a bit. At least, that's what I'm seeing on what is again, fake basketball with only mild relations to the real game.

I think if you look at the matchups in a Pacers association on a day to day basis, you'll really question if Rasho and Murphy are capable of defending well enough. So far, they've been effective guys to come in and do what they do, but they don't have the advantages that Hibbert has. Just being that tall, he can keep point guards out of the post, where as a Murphy or Rasho can't.

We'll see, but Hibbert has been significantly more valuable for me than Rush has. We have what Rush brings in other players. Daniels is better at everything but 3 point shooting than Rush is.

So far, the biggest value I've had has been Hibbert, and Jack. Even more so than T.J., Jack has been very effective for me. Part of that has been the ability to knock down a 3.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

Agreed Notque, do you have 2K9 for PS3 or XBOX, or something else? I have it for the PS3.

[JarrettJackSG]

No way is Hibbert better than Oden. Lets get reality back a bit.

[KennerLeaguer]

I'm kind of thinking he'll have a rookie season much like Erick Dampier did here, but with a much more cerebral approach that brings him into the coaches good graces as opposed to a low b-ball iq that forces the coaches to not trust him.

He'll probably end up averaging about 10-15 minutes a night when all is said and down (when averaged out over the entire course of the year) and he'll be mostly counted on for his defensive presence. He'll probably average about 4 rebounds and a block a night, while scoring mostly off of put backs, and an occasional low post move. He'll work his way into play crunch-time defense, and eventually be groomed to be a long-term answer at center that you could build a defensive approach around. He likely won't ever be an all-star, but he'll likely always be one of those super useful players that you love to have around.

Some of you are as in the dark as Mike Wells. Wells all summer long has been doubting Hibbert and like many other lazy journalists who don't do fact-checking he labeled Hibbert as a center whose strength is defense. Wrong. Hibbert was never a great defensive center at Gtown. Just a solid or a good one. His offense has always been ahead of his defense. Anyone associated with Gtown could tell Mr Wells that. Forget about the scoring numbers because no one puts up huge numbers in that system at Georgetown (as of yet). But Roy always showed excellent and advanced footwork, great shooting touch, the ability to score with both hands, the ability to pass and make jumpshots and a demonstration of a high basketball IQ. Its amazing that analysts and reporters seeing him for the first time are surprised when he shows great moves and great passing. They obviously must have thought he was a Mutombo clone.

Scoring mostly off putbacks? He was never known to get many of his points off of garbage baskets, Scoot. His scoring mostly came on one-on-one moves with his back to the basket....with some faceup drives thrown in for good measure. I'm not coming to here make claims about how good he will be because that would just be an opinion. Instead iI'm pointing out that you gys appear, even now, to know nothing about this guy based upon your description of what he can do for the team. He's not some 7'2 Charles Oakley. He has actual skills as more of you will learn. Some fans ride the jock of every player that can run like the wind and jump to the moon that you lose track in noticing a actual basketball player with basketball skills and an understanding of how to play the game. Hibbert's game in many ways is boring like Tim Duncan's (not saying he is as good). Milwaukee fans were excited to get Joe Alexander because of all his YouTube dunk highlights. But in the end if you look clueless on the floor and in effective what does all that mean. Already announcers calling these Pacers' games are raving about how advanced Hibbert is, how good it appears he will/can be and his understanding of how the game is to be played. I suppose that type of stuff doesn't register to the average fan.

[notque]

Re: Hibbert better than Oden

First, I have always liked Oden better than Hibbert.

In their matchups in college, Hibbert won. Hibbert looked like a more refined player that was more effective. Oden struggled. Both were in foul trouble.

I see no reason to change that point of view. Even with me being biased against Hibbert, he was clearly a better player.

Oden has more "upside" as he is athletic. He is less seasoned, so there is more growth there. I still think that Hibbert is a better player right now than Oden is based on their matchups in college.

Regardless of if I'm right, or wrong, it's rude to question the reality of an obviously reasoned argument. My argument may be flawed, but that has nothing to do with the tenor of the conversation. If you prefer to insult others as opposed to reason another side of an issue, I just won't respond to you.

[KennerLeaguer]

No way is Hibbert better than Oden. Lets get reality back a bit.

Probably not. Especially not athletically. But Roy is more skilled and has at least three inches on Oden. And while Oden had his way against Al Hortford and Noah in the NCAA tourney, Hibbert got off any shot he wanted against Oden and altered many of Oden's shots. Oden said afterwards Hibbert was the best big man he ever faced off against. Does that mean much? Who knows.

[23artest23]

I'm glad that Roy is looking nice early but no way is he better than Oden at this point. I think the whole college argument is worthless because Oden has had a whole season sitting on the bench to learn the nuances of the game. That is huge!

[Dunthreevy]

I don't drink anything involved with another man but I do think that Roy is going to be one hell of a Center for us.

[JarrettJackSG]

Re: Hibbert better than Oden

First, I have always liked Oden better than Hibbert.

In their matchups in college, Hibbert won. Hibbert looked like a more refined player that was more effective. Oden struggled. Both were in foul trouble.

I see no reason to change that point of view. Even with me being biased against Hibbert, he was clearly a better player.

Oden has more "upside" as he is athletic. He is less seasoned, so there is more growth there. I still think that Hibbert is a better player right now than Oden is based on their matchups in college.

Regardless of if I'm right, or wrong, it's rude to question the reality of an obviously reasoned argument. My argument may be flawed, but that has nothing to do with the tenor of the conversation. If you prefer to insult others as opposed to reason another side of an issue, I just won't respond to you.

I don't quire understand where the rudeness comes from. An unsubstantiated claim with no evidence allows for a person to call BS on that argument, and the absence of proof allows me to say that without true evidence, your claim is unrealistic and obviously not of this world. Your "obviously reasoned argument", before the previous post that I quoted, was this

In all seriousness, I think that if you were to put Hibbert vs. Oden right now, Hibbert would win the matchup.

I do not see reasoning, I do not see numbered analysis. As a face up statement, that argument is ridiculous, and not based on reality. I'm pretty sure you even mentioned Nba09 *gasp, a video game*, which I do not think is realistic either. So to say that your claims are of unfounded reality is not only not rude, but totally justified.

Now, lets try to examine your argument, without using claims of what you saw relative to others, and look at the numbers (inner Hollinger)

R. Hibbert, C 24 9-13 1-4 2 6 1 4 19
vs
G. Oden, C 20 6-11 1-4 3 9 0 4 13

2007, final four.

Obviously, we see that Oden outrebounded Hibbert, based on numbers. Hibbert can score on Oden, sure, but they matched defensively in blocks, and Oden picked up a steal. Watching the game, you saw what Oden was, and what Hibbert was. Oden had more upside, more explosion, more speed. Oden will dominate. Hibbert didn't win that game either. Hibbert was more polished offensively, showing banging skills, Lets ignore supporting cast (J Green/J Sapp vs Conley, Lewis, Cook (2 pts), which would be pretty even when we add their numbers together. However, we can see that Hibbert was more valuable offensively to his team, given his workload of scoring and efficiency.

Lets put it this way. Oden is a defensive prescence learning the offensive game. Hibbert has a high bbiq, knows the low and high post, and has a great scoring ability. Needs to work on defense and offense. If we put Oden today (bulked up, slower, out of shape, a year of NBA studying) vs Hibbert (very little NBA experience, great offensive game, in shape), we can probably expect Hibbert to win one on one.

But if we look at preseason averages, Oden has the edge right now. Who knows.

An argument like this, I would say, would be grounded in reality.

And I find it interesting that you are calling me rude, while you are trying to dictate the pace and "tone and tenor" of the debate. Any person can come into the topic with a goofy or serious manner, and I'm mostly a serious poster. If you can't stand that, too bad.

[PR07]

I don't think it's out of the question to say Hibbert is better than Oden right now. I mean 3 extra years of college experience will do that for you, especially when you consider that Oden spent this last season rehabbing with pretty much no real game experience. Big men take a long time to develop, an extra 3 years of college seasoning is nothing to take lightly. Longterm, Oden should be the better player and probably a superstar, but I still expect Hibbert to become one of the better centers in the NBA. He's not a great athlete, but I think he makes up for it with his smarts and solid fundamentals.

At this point, I have trouble buying anything the Pacers are selling, but I'm cautiously optimistic with both Hibbert and Rush.

[cdash]

Okay, lets all take a step back and inhale. To even have the discussing of Hibbert vs. Oden is pretty ridiculous. Roy has looked good thus far, and I think we are all encouraged and pleasantly surprised, but lets keep things in perspective a bit. We're setting ourselves up to be disappointed.

[Berzerker]

Hibbert isn't near the physical specimen that Oden is, but I'm willing to bet he's far more skilled. If you go by media hype, which sadly is what most people go by, it would be a no contest in Oden's favor. But we saw in 2007 that Hibbert can not only hold his own against Mr. Hype, he arguably outplayed him. As Oden gains the basketball skills to go along with his physical gifts, he'll likely blow past Roy, but as of right now I think it would be a great match-up.