What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
- Taget
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
Rondo will get a market price. To get more he'd have to transform himself from year two Tony Parker to year five Tony Parker. Most teams would gladly offer him the MLE. However it is doubtful any team with capspace will offer him more. He's still seen as a complimentary rather than a star player.
Unless Danny overpays or Rondo takes his game to a whole new level this year his salary will be in the range of 6 maybe 7 million a year.
Unless Danny overpays or Rondo takes his game to a whole new level this year his salary will be in the range of 6 maybe 7 million a year.
[quote:545636310b="Darth Celtic"]man, these refs need to stop giving us the benefit of the doubt and start screwing us.[/quote]


Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
Taget,
Well I agree that is likely in line with what the Celtics would really be wanting to sign Rajon Rondo for if his extention were due today, its hardly a realistic picture of his market-value. That is what Jameer Nelson got from the Orlando Magic in his five year extention last summer and there is no doubt that Rajon Rondo is both the more valueable and better player.
If Rajon Rondo wants to truely cash in, it would be in his best interest not to sign an extention next summer as he is still young enough to project for major year on year improvements historically for a PG of his age.
If he improves as much over the course of the next two seasons that he did over the course of his first two seasons he'll be damn near a franchise PG when he hits restricted free agency. Its in Danny Ainge's best interest to sign him to a longterm extention next summer because it could save the Celtics $30-35 million dollars over the course of that contract.
If injuries don't get in the way Rajon Rondo projects to be a 14-16 PPG, 7-9 APG, 4-5 RPG, 2-3 SPG, 2-2.5 TPG and All NBA 1st Team Defender by the time he reaches his mid-20's. This is the Mo Cheeks of this era we have here in Boston.
Well I agree that is likely in line with what the Celtics would really be wanting to sign Rajon Rondo for if his extention were due today, its hardly a realistic picture of his market-value. That is what Jameer Nelson got from the Orlando Magic in his five year extention last summer and there is no doubt that Rajon Rondo is both the more valueable and better player.
If Rajon Rondo wants to truely cash in, it would be in his best interest not to sign an extention next summer as he is still young enough to project for major year on year improvements historically for a PG of his age.
If he improves as much over the course of the next two seasons that he did over the course of his first two seasons he'll be damn near a franchise PG when he hits restricted free agency. Its in Danny Ainge's best interest to sign him to a longterm extention next summer because it could save the Celtics $30-35 million dollars over the course of that contract.
If injuries don't get in the way Rajon Rondo projects to be a 14-16 PPG, 7-9 APG, 4-5 RPG, 2-3 SPG, 2-2.5 TPG and All NBA 1st Team Defender by the time he reaches his mid-20's. This is the Mo Cheeks of this era we have here in Boston.
Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
- campybatman
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
This is an unrelated story to Rondo. But, I was curious if anyone believes that Ellis (22) is that much better of a player than Rondo (22). If yes, is he worth $11M a season for six years? If no, could Rondo improve even more next season that he earns a new contract close to double-digits a season for likewise years? I'm just wondering... Because this begs the question of would another team offer an exact contract to Ellis should Golden State void the newly signed contract. Also, if Rondo indeed makes a jump in statistics in his third season, then certainly his agent could start throwing out other names of young guards signing new deals such as Ellis and Devin Harris.
In my opinion, I feel his numbers aren't bad given where he places among the other starters. His assists and steals are the two categories I see him improving further upon. The free throws go up only if he becomes more aggressive on offense and that isn't always necessary for him to be on this team. I believe his field goal percentage is directly tied into this. And he should remain steady with the other important stats. In other words, the challenge for Rondo is how much more can he improve on his statistics if your role can determine what you're able to do on the team.
From what I can tell, Rondo's numbers are close from this season. That is, from a point guard perspective. Perhaps, it isn't the best comparison between two young players with Ellis being more of a scoring guard, thus certain numbers in his overall stats will be better regardless than Rondo's. Not to mention, what the Warriors need from him are different from what the Celtics need from Rondo. For example, Ellis is apt to get more free throw opportunities then Rondo due to him being more aggressive on offense and likely attacking the basket more than Rondo who's duties include being more of a facilitator on a team with scoring options ahead of him.
Monta Ellis G; three seasons; second round selection
2007-2008 - MPG - 37.9, FG% - .531, 3P% - .231, FT% - .767, PPG - 20.2, RPG - 5.0, APG - 3.9, SPG - 1.5, BPG - .3 and TO - 2.1
Career - http://www.nba.com/playerfile/monta_ell ... stats.html
Rajon Rondo PG; two seasons; first round selection
2007-2008 - MPG - 29.9, FG% - .492, 3P% - .263, FT% - .611, PPG - 10.6, RPG - 4.2, APG - 5.1, SPG - 1.7, BPG - .2 and TO - 1.9
Career - http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rajon_ron ... stats.html
http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/1321556.html
In my opinion, I feel his numbers aren't bad given where he places among the other starters. His assists and steals are the two categories I see him improving further upon. The free throws go up only if he becomes more aggressive on offense and that isn't always necessary for him to be on this team. I believe his field goal percentage is directly tied into this. And he should remain steady with the other important stats. In other words, the challenge for Rondo is how much more can he improve on his statistics if your role can determine what you're able to do on the team.
From what I can tell, Rondo's numbers are close from this season. That is, from a point guard perspective. Perhaps, it isn't the best comparison between two young players with Ellis being more of a scoring guard, thus certain numbers in his overall stats will be better regardless than Rondo's. Not to mention, what the Warriors need from him are different from what the Celtics need from Rondo. For example, Ellis is apt to get more free throw opportunities then Rondo due to him being more aggressive on offense and likely attacking the basket more than Rondo who's duties include being more of a facilitator on a team with scoring options ahead of him.
Monta Ellis G; three seasons; second round selection
2007-2008 - MPG - 37.9, FG% - .531, 3P% - .231, FT% - .767, PPG - 20.2, RPG - 5.0, APG - 3.9, SPG - 1.5, BPG - .3 and TO - 2.1
Career - http://www.nba.com/playerfile/monta_ell ... stats.html
Rajon Rondo PG; two seasons; first round selection
2007-2008 - MPG - 29.9, FG% - .492, 3P% - .263, FT% - .611, PPG - 10.6, RPG - 4.2, APG - 5.1, SPG - 1.7, BPG - .2 and TO - 1.9
Career - http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rajon_ron ... stats.html
Staff writer Scott Howard-Cooper is part of The Bee's coverage team at Kings training camp and a regular contributor to the Kings blog. Below is an excerpt from Thursday. To read it in its entirety, go to http://www.sacbee.com/ kingsblog.
The Warriors are retaining the option to extend the 30-game suspension of guard Monta Ellis, possibly all the way to voiding the six-year, $66 million deal he signed in July. Golden State would only throw that switch if Ellis struggles mightily to recover from an ankle injury that is now expected to sideline him until December or January, and even then would be a tough call, probably in summer 2009 at the earliest. He turns 23 next weekend, and players have come back from much worse. It's just that the W's don't want to be on the hook for $66 mil for damaged goods, since Ellis violated the contract by riding a moped and then lied to management by claiming he got hurt in a pickup game. In the unlikely event the deal is voided, Ellis would be waived but not go back to his previous status as a restricted free agent in a negotiating advantage for the Warriors. He would be unrestricted.
http://www.sacbee.com/100/story/1321556.html
Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
How much Rondo gets depends hugely on his improvement this season. Duh. Areas where he hopefully will improve include:
1. Outside shooting
2. Midrange shooting
3. Finishing
4. Non-gambling defense
If before the All-Star break he has become a guy you'd never, ever, ever sit at the end of a game, the max salary option won't seem so ridiculous.
Now, I don't think he'll get or deserve max salary. I don't even think he'll be more than a token amount over $10 million per year unless he again shows big improvement. But I do think it's premature to talk of a ceiling.
1. Outside shooting
2. Midrange shooting
3. Finishing
4. Non-gambling defense
If before the All-Star break he has become a guy you'd never, ever, ever sit at the end of a game, the max salary option won't seem so ridiculous.
Now, I don't think he'll get or deserve max salary. I don't even think he'll be more than a token amount over $10 million per year unless he again shows big improvement. But I do think it's premature to talk of a ceiling.
Banned temporarily for, among other sins, being "Extremely Deviant".
Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
- campybatman
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
Interest in a max salary for young players is the norm. I see no reason why Rondo's agent won't begin there. However, that isn't to say Rondo will receive a max contract from Boston, but typically those young players who are on the raise tend to expect to receive that much.
If Ainge, I sit down with he and agent and get this hammered out soon. Because I don't think it'll get done as fast as with Perkins.
If Ainge, I sit down with he and agent and get this hammered out soon. Because I don't think it'll get done as fast as with Perkins.
Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
I love Rondo but you can't compare him with guys who put up 20 ppg. HIs offensive production is the minimum at this point for a starting pg, similar to Perk. These guys are perfect in a lineup with 3 HOFs but it doesn't mean you can pay Rondo 11-12 mil bucks and expect him to put 18/9. Jameer Nelson is an excellent comparison of Rondo's value at this point, two others would be Devon Harris and Kirk Hinrich. The three make 7.5, 8.5, and 9.5 per on a 5 year deal respectively.
The reality is Boston may not have to sign Rondo to keep him through KG and Paul's window and I don't know that Rondo is the player you would want to necessarily rebuild around. Maybe he is better utilized in a deal to a contender when it is time to rebuild.
The reality is Boston may not have to sign Rondo to keep him through KG and Paul's window and I don't know that Rondo is the player you would want to necessarily rebuild around. Maybe he is better utilized in a deal to a contender when it is time to rebuild.
Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
GOOD GOD, a player doesn't have to be a 20/10 player to be elite at a position, how this escapes basketball fans who care enough abourt the sport to post about it online is incredible to me. We have quite possibly the premiere defensive disruptive PG to enter this league since Jason Kidd who is more then just capable offensively of running the show but can truely get where he wants with the ball at will but was able to start at PG playing mostly off the ball and too his weaknesses as such for a 66 win championship team at age 21-22 as a first year starter and you think his value should be in line with JAMEER $$$$ING NELSON,DEVIN HARRIS AND KIRK HINRICH!
SOME OF YOU ARE UNREAL!
SOME OF YOU ARE UNREAL!
Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
- Taget
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
JMillott wrote:GOOD GOD, a player doesn't have to be a 20/10 player to be elite at a position, how this escapes basketball fans who care enough abourt the sport to post about it online is incredible to me. We have quite possibly the premiere defensive disruptive PG to enter this league since Jason Kidd who is more then just capable offensively of running the show but can truely get where he wants with the ball at will but was able to start at PG playing mostly off the ball and too his weaknesses as such for a 66 win championship team at age 21-22 as a first year starter and you think his value should be in line with JAMEER $$$$ING NELSON,DEVIN HARRIS AND KIRK HINRICH!
SOME OF YOU ARE UNREAL!
That he is a good fit for this team is not in doubt. What is in doubt is what he commands on the open free market. What can other teams offer and what are they willing to offer? Is the player willing to take a sure multi-year payday versus taking a risk that an injury could derail their career. Would they be willing to walk knowing they'd lose their bird rights and might be lucky to even get the mle the subsequent season?
Smart teams don't bid against themselves. That is how the New York Knicks originally dug themselves into the salary hole.
He'll look at what other players have gotten and ask why not. Of course his agent will ask for the max. Never hurts to ask.
But in the end we'll gauge the money he can get. Perhaps even the money he could potentially get in a sign and trade. And we'll evaluate and decide.
I remember having this discussion a few years ago when people were saying Delonte would get the max.

[quote:545636310b="Darth Celtic"]man, these refs need to stop giving us the benefit of the doubt and start screwing us.[/quote]


Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
The difference between saying Delonte West was a possible max contract guy and saying that Rajon Rondo is clearly going to command more money then a Jameer Nelson is night and day. The longer it takes to get Rajon Rondo locked up longterm the higher that price is going to go up.
This is quite clear if you look at Rondo's development, athletic ability, work ethic, winning track record, defensive impact, etc he is at 22 years of age one of the ten most valueable starting PG's in this league in terms of overall impact at both ends of the court and is only going to get better.
Delonte West is a nice player but anybody who was talking about him as a potential max contract guy clearly didn't know what they were talking about. As for Rajon Rondo i'm not talking about a max contract for him either, i'm simply saying that getting him signed next summer could keep the price down in the 40-50 million dollar range over five years but if they wait until the summer of 2010 its going to take 60-70 million if not more.
This is quite clear if you look at Rondo's development, athletic ability, work ethic, winning track record, defensive impact, etc he is at 22 years of age one of the ten most valueable starting PG's in this league in terms of overall impact at both ends of the court and is only going to get better.
Delonte West is a nice player but anybody who was talking about him as a potential max contract guy clearly didn't know what they were talking about. As for Rajon Rondo i'm not talking about a max contract for him either, i'm simply saying that getting him signed next summer could keep the price down in the 40-50 million dollar range over five years but if they wait until the summer of 2010 its going to take 60-70 million if not more.
Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
- campybatman
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
Taget wrote:Smart teams don't bid against themselves. That is how the New York Knicks originally dug themselves into the salary hole.
New York tends to have too much spending money to know what to do with it. Is it the desire to win or the need to appease your fan base which drive you as a professional sports franchise to spend foolishly? On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with what you choose to do with your money as an owner(s) because everyone will judge you each season on whether or not you won a championship. Teams that have more to spend will feel the bulk of any criticism and rightfully so.
I think Ainge knows he must secure a deal longterm with Rondo now. However, that's easier said then done when Rondo's agent's thinking in terms of what's best for his client first and himself second. With that being the case, his agent may desire for this to take longer to resolve in order to attract other bidders if they feel the current team won't budge from their financial offer.
For me, generally speaking, I never understand why players announce off the back that they like the team and area and would prefer to remain there. It seems to lessen your leverage in a way. It's as if you're telling the fans beforehand: If I sign elsewhere, for whatever the reason, I'm letting you know I'm not to blame.
Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
JMillott wrote:GOOD GOD, a player doesn't have to be a 20/10 player to be elite at a position, how this escapes basketball fans who care enough abourt the sport to post about it online is incredible to me. We have quite possibly the premiere defensive disruptive PG to enter this league since Jason Kidd who is more then just capable offensively of running the show but can truely get where he wants with the ball at will but was able to start at PG playing mostly off the ball and too his weaknesses as such for a 66 win championship team at age 21-22 as a first year starter and you think his value should be in line with JAMEER $$$$ING NELSON,DEVIN HARRIS AND KIRK HINRICH!
SOME OF YOU ARE UNREAL!
Do you really see Rondo as better than Devin Harris?
Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
Yes, I do consider Rajon Rondo as a better longterm PG then Devin Harris.
I like Devin Harris too but he isn't the all around player that Rondo is and he wasn't as good at the same age as Rondo is either.
Passing/Ball Handling/Court vision/Running a team/Rebounding/Defense
All of these go to Rajon in my opinion by a fairly considerable margin in most cases
Scoring/Shooting
This is the only spot where Devin Harris gets the edge and he isn't going to average 20+ PPG in my opinion and while he is a better shooter he isn't a great one.
I like Devin Harris too but he isn't the all around player that Rondo is and he wasn't as good at the same age as Rondo is either.
Passing/Ball Handling/Court vision/Running a team/Rebounding/Defense
All of these go to Rajon in my opinion by a fairly considerable margin in most cases
Scoring/Shooting
This is the only spot where Devin Harris gets the edge and he isn't going to average 20+ PPG in my opinion and while he is a better shooter he isn't a great one.
Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
JMillott wrote:Yes, I do consider Rajon Rondo as a better longterm PG then Devin Harris.
I like Devin Harris too but he isn't the all around player that Rondo is and he wasn't as good at the same age as Rondo is either.
Passing/Ball Handling/Court vision/Running a team/Rebounding/Defense
All of these go to Rajon in my opinion by a fairly considerable margin in most cases
Scoring/Shooting
This is the only spot where Devin Harris gets the edge and he isn't going to average 20+ PPG in my opinion and while he is a better shooter he isn't a great one.
I'd definitely agree that Rondo is a better defender and rebounder than Harris but I'm not so sure about the passing. Harris average 6.5 assists with the Nets last year opposed to 5.1 for Rondo and the Nets are a much worse team than the Celtics. I think Rondo is really a case of a player being a perfect fit for the team he's on. If Rondo wasn't playing with three prolific scorers like Pierce, Allen, and Garnett then his offensive shortcomings would be more exposed but the Celtics don't need him to score so he can focus on the other parts of his game that are his strengths. Not many teams have that luxury though.
Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
- campybatman
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Re: What's the most in a new salary Rondo can command?
Don Ford wrote:I'd definitely agree that Rondo is a better defender and rebounder than Harris but I'm not so sure about the passing. Harris average 6.5 assists with the Nets last year opposed to 5.1 for Rondo and the Nets are a much worse team than the Celtics. I think Rondo is really a case of a player being a perfect fit for the team he's on. If Rondo wasn't playing with three prolific scorers like Pierce, Allen, and Garnett then his offensive shortcomings would be more exposed but the Celtics don't need him to score so he can focus on the other parts of his game that are his strengths. Not many teams have that luxury though.
But, you left out that Rondo's assist average rose during the playoffs this season for a cumulative total (average) in twenty-six games of 6.6. In each round, Rondo had an assist averages of: 7.3, 6.0, 6.5 and 6.7. In other words, he'd arose to the occasion in the playoffs.
In my opinion, if Rondo were on the Celtics with only Jefferson as a teammate minus an injured Pierce. He would excel. Meaning his scoring could increase and his assists would too feeding Jefferson on the block. I just don't see how Rondo's any less of a player capable of filling up a stats card with or without Pierce, Garnett and (Ray) Allen. You can say the same about a lot of player's in Rondo's position. Your statistics will be only as good as your individual talent and role on the team. Because his teammates have all the confidence in him as a teammate and lead guard; they all understand what he means to the team and what it would mean if he went down.
In my opinion, a point guard's worth in the league isn't simply about his average in assist for the season. The thing about Rondo is: Pierce, Garnett, (Ray) Allen and some others all are capable passers which somewhat takes away from Rondo's job of being the primary facilitator. He won't have the ball in his hands a lot of the time during games like Chris Paul let's say. But, that's just as much about their different roles for their teams as much as it's obviously about the differences in their talents.
The Celtics remind me of the Kings of the 90s in that the starters for the Celtics are all capable passers who can find their teammates like the Kings' starters back then.