Time to consider Heresy

[ohara]

I know most consider it a dirty word, but I'm gonnaa say it anyway. We need a PF in a bad way. May is finished, and no one else is anywhere near a starter. Thr time to make a drastic move is now. So, I'll just lay it out there - red meat for some of you to devour andd go ballistic. But it is something which, if done correctly, will make us much better ..................Zach Randolph.

First, people with attitudes have changed and thrived under a change of venue - look at Chris Carter and Randy Moss. Secondly, he is a fairly reliable 20-10 PF. We have nothing near that now. NY wants Contracts which are soon to expire so they can go after King James in 2010. They may be willing to even throw in their 2009 1st rounder.

If done wisely, this is a chance worth taking! Again, many of you want to vomit at the sound of his name, but if LB can soothe the issues Zach has, and he finds a home where his teammates care about him and we start winning, this could be great. I do realize the risk, but looking at this team as currently constituted, I dont believe we can actually be any worse off, but will in fact drastically improve.

[Felton for Pres]

Isn't his contract horrific?

[misterglover]

Ohara I co-sign your idea...I think we need to take a chance on Randolph, Miles or just about anyone that has proved that can actually contribute in the league becuz our frontcourt has only 2 true NBA caliber players the rest are garbage....But so many people on this board knock down just about every idea its almost as if they are happy/content with keeping this team as is and honestly this team sucks...i just dont understand it?!?!

[doc.end]

No (fricking) way.

[Paydro70]

Randolph would considerably improve this team, in theory. He's a very good rebounder and scorer; he'd basically be the David West to Okafor's Tyson Chandler. However:
1) Would he really get along with Larry Brown? I doubt it.
2) NY probably actually wants him right now, he's going to fit in well with D'Antoni once they bench Curry.
3) His contract is horrible, 15m per for another two years after this one.

#3 is the real key... I think Randolph would totally be worth the gamble, except that if it DOESN'T work (starts dogging it in practice, Brown benches him, stripclub shooting) he's still on the hook for another 2 years and will be totally immovable. So... I don't think we can possibly take on that kind of risk for the sake of a team that isn't getting a title even with Randolph at peak performance.

[e4Nf6]

no, no, no, a thousand times no....

Whatever gain we got from Zach,(We won't) would be offset by Larry Brown quitting in disgust.

[Junglist]

i would be onboard for zebo. he's got a tainted past and could be a locker room disruption, but he's a low post threat and a solid guy on the boards. his contract is terrible, but it's off the books in 3 years. this team is at a point where we need the playoffs in order to succeed. fifth year in and the fans have been somewhat patient with the building process. winning puts butts in the seats and gets exposure and helps the franchise immensely. our rotation of pf's is a little scary and randolph would compliment eo50 very well. randolph is a big risk-big reward kinda guy and this team has done a good job of avoiding these players since inception. roll the dice, and let randolph hold down the 4 until alexis is ready to go. additionally, most knicks trades involving randolph have included ny throwing in 1st rounders to compensate the contract/risk. we grab a 1st from ny, it would balance out the 1st we lose to denver. i know the majority doesn't want to waste the time, money, headache and/or commitment to randolph, but there isn't a whole lot out there. personally, if we don't fix our pf slot with a weapon, it will keep us out of the playoffs. i'm all for winning without big time names, and i would rather have jason maxiell or would've liked landry, but if we can grab a 1st rounder plus fix our pf slot for the next few years, sign me up.

[BigSlam]

he's got a tainted past and could be a locker room disruption, but..........

As far as I am concerned, there is no "but" after that sentance.

We just got rid of one headcase who caused locker room issues and we saw how that worked out. No way should be add another.

[ohara]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Look, the numbers can be done. NY buys out the Contracts to get to 15 again. We get DICKOU or another experienced PG to support DJ. But starting DJ, J-RICH, CRASH, RANDOLPH and OKAFOR gives us a great starting 5. Bring Carroll. Ajinca, Nazr and Dudley and a couple FA's off the bench, and we're OK. Better than anything we have currently.

[Junglist]

i agree that zach randolph types are not a desired player, but sometimes the ends justifies the means. i'm glad mcinnis is gone, but if zach can bring 20/8 to our line-up and help add a fiersome 1-2 combo with okafor, i don't think it should be so cut and dry. o'hara mentioned randy moss and look at what he did in new england and what t.o. has done where he's gone. i would say that players like artest and crazy-ass dennis rodman where volatile players, but they made a significant impact on their respective teams. true for every t.o and rodman there are mcinnis' and cancerous players that do nothing but take up space and earn a check. i just feel we have a lot of chemistry, hustlers and "good citizen" type players that taking a chance on zebo would be justified. trust me, i'd much rather get a younger well rounded player that doesn't cause problems, but i don't see one out there that's attainable without removing someone from the core of felton, swish, crash or emeka.

[Walt Cronkite]

Your dreaming if you think the Cats are going to take on long term salary when Bob Johnson is trying to sell the franchise...

[Benjamin Linus]

Sadly, I was thinking about this too the other day, but maybe something like...

Nazr Mohammed
Adam Morrison
Sean May

for

Zach Randolph
Mardy Collins (or maybe Wilson Chandler, though I doubt it)


...if they're still really looking to get rid of Randolph

[e4Nf6]

Rodman for all his crazy was a superb player, he and Pippen have NEVER gotten enough credit for helping the Bulls win championships.

Zebo flat out hurts your team....

Things Zebo does well include:
-rebounding (decent)
-lets call it "Volume" scoring
-still fairly young(26/27)

Things Zebo does not do well include:
-Shooting a good percentage
-Defense of any kind (consistently averages 0.2 blks a game in his career, career high is 0.5)
- Passing
-Taking care of the ball (3TO per game last couple years)
- Playing 82 games (not once in his career, hasn't played 70 in the last two)
- Not being a cancer in the locker room
- Not getting in fights with teamates


Adam Morrison had 1/8th of the blocks Zebo did all season, last night, Ammo!!

Zebo has already started Jacking up 3's Antoine Walker style.

The bottom line is, we are not the that desperate yet.

[chrbal]

Even with that trade package, the Bobcats would have to get a draft pick for bailing the Knicks out.

This team needs to be more established to take on a guy like Zach Randolph. I just don't think it would work.

If this team is going to go after frontcourt help, we should try to deal with the Nets. They have something like 8 (or more) frontcourt (4/5s) on their roster.

[ohara]

ANYTHING! SOMETHING! But we don't look like a team with any chance to contend. We have to do something b/c this team is just bad. I love them, and will pull for them, but they are really bad! We must make major changes.

May is done. He should not make an NBA team,
Ammo is good for 6-8 pts, 12 on a good night, and maybe 15 minutes; no Defense
Davidson is good for 4 pts and 6 fouls for playing hack-a-shaq
Ray is being outplayed by a Rookie PG. He is not going to be content as a backup to DJ, and we aren't going to pay him $7 mil/yr to be a backup. Trade him while the value is there.
We can find FA's to fill the voids left behind from this trade. There are several LB type players and he will find them. I have faith in LB. But you have to give him the players he needs, not the stinky ones currently on our roster.

I love our team, and will always cheer for them. I just want to actually have a team I can see have a chance to win some games.

[misterglover]

Again Ohara I agree with you I think too many people are overestimating what Larry Brown is gonna be able to do with this team when he has a lack of talent and doesnt really have his type of players yet...I've seen this team last year & I've seen the preseason this year I will still cheer & attend all homes games but I am in PANIC mood..... Its like the front office are just sitting on their asses hoping that the "magic light" is gonna coming on and some of these players are suddenly gonna explode into something their not & the majority of the people on this board find every reason to justify why every trade is not right for us....the only trade I think I've seen were most people say OK is a trade for Boozer...yeah right like the players on this team have that kind of value.....

[Paydro70]

e4, you've got some things about Zach that aren't really true. You're absolutely right about defense, and the locker room issues are real, but just a couple of points:

1) Rebounding... he's not just "decent," he's exceptional, especially on the defensive end. He finished #16 last year in rebound rate, right behind Al Jefferson and ahead of Horford, Shaq, David Lee, KG...

2) Passing... he has a bad reputation because, as you note, he shoots a lot, but that's just because he totally dominates the ball for awful teams. He actually has a better assist rate than: Rudy Gay, Kevin Martin, Lamarcus Aldridge, Amare, Dwight, Al Jefferson, and Emeka Okafor.

3) Turnovers... this is another feature of his ludicrous usage rate, rather than actual carelessness. Guys with a higher turnover RATE: Brad Miller, Emeka Okafor, Yao Ming, Chris Kaman, Al Horford, Dwight Howard.

I'm not saying the guy is the truth or anything, but he would for sure help us on the boards, would probably have his best ever offensive year if he joined us (since he wouldn't have to use 1/4 of his team's possessions, a rate usually reserved for guys like Yao, Iverson, and Duncan), and honestly is no worse on defense than May or Davidson.

This is, of course, all a moot point, because like I said earlier, taking on 3 years of him is not a worthwhile gamble for the off-court issues. It would be if it were one year, maybe even 2, or if the salary was down at 8m or something, but not 15m for 3.

[e4Nf6]

OK this is the post where I back off a bit from what I said before....

1) You say he is a good rebounder, i don't disagree. Maybe "decent" was not fair.

2) 2.0 apg for a guy with the ball in his hands that much is not great, not Yinka Dare terrible, but not great. Maybe this belongs neither in "good things" or "bad things"

3) You're right, but I think this assumes that his usage within an offense was thrust upon him instead of being his natural style of play. I suppose it's possible with better offensive players around him he would take better shots, but I doubt it.

I agree the guy is talented, he has some skills with the ball in his hands, but as you said the contract would be nuclear winter for our salary cap.

[SteveMorrison15]

Not even close BUD!

[fatlever]

LOL.

"That's another one, right now! I've got you for the rest of your natural born life if you don't watch your step! You want another one?"

perhaps the most quotable movie of the past 30 years.