Improving now and the future MN/IND

[SpencerBusch]

Timberwolves Offer
Craig Smith
Carney
And
Brian Cardinal
2nd

For
Rasho Nesterovic (Exp)
Josh Mcroberts (Exp)
Hibbert

Why for Pacers
It gives them a good PF for the future who can score in Craig Smith. It also gives them a potential player in Carney who has alot of energy and shows alot of hustle. They also get Cardinal who can show some leadership to the younger players and then get a 2nd rounder.

Why for the TWOLVES! (WOOT!)
We improve IMMEDIATLY at the center spot over Mad-Dawg and Collins with Rasho! And since collins is a exp also we could package him with Mccants or another player in a trade for picks or another players. Or we could just let him go after the season. Rasho is also a expiring so if he doesnt deserve a 1-2 year extension we can let him walk at the end of the year. Now Hibbert is a great piece for the future because he has so much potential and he is 7 feet tall! Now he has 3 years left on his contract after this season so he has alot of time to developed before he needs a extension. We also get Mcroberts who in my opinion is a bust, but some teams might give a 2nd rounder for him i mean id take it . And also if we can package him then well he is a expiring so let him walk after the season.

[revprodeji]

I am a huge Hibbert fan, everyone knows this. But there is no way Indy does this trade. It is very unbalanced.

[SpencerBusch]

Whats so unbalanced about it? Does Hibbert have that much value? Or what is a counter offer than could improve it?

[revprodeji]

Young centers always have a lot of value. Even if they never pan out. But also Cardinal is a nice guy, but has a horrible contract. You will not get rid of his contract w/o attaching value to it. Such as one of the 1st rd picks. So there is no chance of indy exchanging their expiring contracts for Cardinal. Also, Rasho has some value as a player as well. And, Indy would not get rid of both 7ft guys.

Cookie is a good guy, but he just does not have the value to make this kind of a trade work.

closest thing that could come from this would be a

Carney/Cookie+1st for Hibbert.

Even then Indy might still turn it down. Hibbert could end up being a bench guy, but right now he is a big body with a lot of potential. He reminds many scouts of Rik Smits so Indy will fall in love easy.

Welcome to the board spencer.

[shrink]

Timberwolves Offer
Craig Smith
Carney
And
Brian Cardinal
2nd

For
Rasho Nesterovic (Exp)
Josh Mcroberts (Exp)
Hibbert

What I like: You picked a good team in Indiana to trade with, because we match up well. Indiana is one of only a few teams that can trade a center. I think Carney may fill extra seats there, and Craig Smith would be a useful scorer next to the scoring-challenged Jeff Foster, who they just signed for two years. The players MIN are bringing back are good fits too.

What I think could be improved: Indiana fans are very attached to Hibbert, and it would take a lot more to get them to trade him to us. He was their lottery pick just a few months ago, and teams rarely trade lottery picks for a few years, hoping they make good on their potential, no matter how badly they play. Its tough to get a team to trade one center -- two centers would be nearly impossible. Its also difficult to do deals that help now and in the future, because usually you need to trade one to get the other.

I like that package we're sending to IND -- because they probably value it more than we do. That's the basis for a good trade. Maybe we could come back with some other return besides Hibbert (who I admit, would be a great fit)

[SpencerBusch]

Thanks rev, i have been a big fan of you and shrinks writings for a while. And back to the other subject, i do believe that the Cookie/Carney + 1 trade would be better for indiana. I do wish i could get rasho in the trade also though .

[C.lupus]

If we added Collins and took back Tinsley, Indy might bite.

[SpencerBusch]

If we added Collins and took back Tinsley, Indy might bite.

If he was a expiring then yes but he has like 3 years left on his contract so no.

[C.lupus]

Not saying I would do it (I don't like the guy) but it adds more incentive for Indy, turning his bad contract/attitude into an expiring (and a center).

[SpencerBusch]

Well i guess it would be nice to have hibbert but what the hay Pekovic will come eventually

[Basti]

so Indy is left with one center on their roster? I highly doubt Indy would actually consider this offer.

[jack612]

I remember back when there would be a night every season where Rasho would buy everyone in the Target Center a beer, so I'm all for this.

[john2jer]

I think you'd have to take out Hibbert and add Utah's 1st round pick to make this more balanced.

Carney + Smith + Cardinal + Utah's 1st
for
Rasho + McRoberts

Although I'd prefer Hibbert, I'd likely consider that deal. It clears Cardinal's contract and brings in two expiring big men, one being a good center to pair with Big Al.

C - Nesterovic/Collins
PF - Jefferson/Love
SF - Gomes/Brewer
SG - Miller/McCants
PG - Foye/Telfair

Indy gets a couple young pieces that would fit well in Smith and Carney, plus the 1st round pick. Cardinal is a hometown hero from Purdue.

[shrink]

Cardinal is a hometown hero from Purdue.

I forgot about the Purdue angle. Nice.

I hope its not that expensive to move one year of Cardinal.

[revprodeji]

Spencer, I think you need to understand how contract size determines much of value. A long contract is often a negative contract, an ending contract has value. Tinsley is added because he is negative value. if he was an expiring contract then there would be no advantage for indiana.

I would be all for a cookie/carney+1st for Hibbert.

[SpencerBusch]

Yea i have known that for a while its just i kinda forgot the situation a little bit with cardinal having such a junk prospect So yea plus my teacher who reads this site also confronted me and told me about it also But yea i do know that a expiring contract is a good contract haha

[4ho5ive]

Dear god i have missed using the trade machine so much. This thing has easily killed a days worth of time last season.

Closest i could put together before going back to work:

Indiana:
Outgoing-Marquis Daniels, Jamaal Tinsley, Roy Hibbert.
Incoming-Al Harrington, Craig Smith + one of Uth/Bos/Mia 1st

They rid themselves of Jamaal Tinsley who they seem to be done with, Switch Daniels' expiring for Harringtons 2 year (player option after 1) and add young core pieces in Craig and the 1st.

Golden State:
Outgoing-Al Harrington, Marcus Williams
Incoming-Jason Collins, Jamaal Tinsley

They rid themselves of Harrington who wants out. Bring in Collins' expiring contract and add a PG who is still young and may need a change of scenery.

Minnesota:
Outgoing-Craig Smith, Jason Collins + 1st rounder
Incoming-Roy Hibbert, Marquis Daniels, Marcus Williams

A 2 for 3 means one of Williams, Booth or other would need to be cut. Daniels is an expiring (team option) and would give us the combo player McHale has a boner for. And obviously Hibbert is a young center with promise

All in all, Indiana probably has a hard time biting as bringing Harrington back and losing Hibbert may not be worth it, until you add a 1st and rid of Tinsley though I cant speak for them. I wish i could have found a way to get Harrington here to really piss shrink off but i couldnt do it.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Dear god i have missed using the trade machine so much. This thing has easily killed a days worth of time last season.

why is is a trade "machine" ? When they use that word I imagine a huge Cray supercomputer from the 70s

[john2jer]

Dear god i have missed using the trade machine so much. This thing has easily killed a days worth of time last season.

Closest i could put together before going back to work:

Indiana:
Outgoing-Marquis Daniels, Jamaal Tinsley, Roy Hibbert.
Incoming-Al Harrington, Craig Smith + one of Uth/Bos/Mia 1st

They rid themselves of Jamaal Tinsley who they seem to be done with, Switch Daniels' expiring for Harringtons 2 year (player option after 1) and add young core pieces in Craig and the 1st.

Golden State:
Outgoing-Al Harrington, Marcus Williams
Incoming-Jason Collins, Jamaal Tinsley

They rid themselves of Harrington who wants out. Bring in Collins' expiring contract and add a PG who is still young and may need a change of scenery.

Minnesota:
Outgoing-Craig Smith, Jason Collins + 1st rounder
Incoming-Roy Hibbert, Marquis Daniels, Marcus Williams

A 2 for 3 means one of Williams, Booth or other would need to be cut. Daniels is an expiring (team option) and would give us the combo player McHale has a boner for. And obviously Hibbert is a young center with promise

All in all, Indiana probably has a hard time biting as bringing Harrington back and losing Hibbert may not be worth it, until you add a 1st and rid of Tinsley though I cant speak for them. I wish i could have found a way to get Harrington here to really piss shrink off but i couldnt do it.

This actually isn't bad. The Wolves might be getting a little too much, and the Warriors not getting enough, so maybe it's Utah's pick to Golden State and instead of the 1st to Indiana it's a couple of 2nds.

Warriors need a point guard and Harrington doesn't want to be there.
Wolves need a center.

Ollie could probably be moved in a side deal to make room for Daniels and Williams. Maybe Ollie to the Bobcats for a 2nd round pick?

[shrink]

I've long considered GSW to be a leading candidate for Tinsley, simply due to the fact that Don Nelson has done so well keeping talented but behavior issue players' heads on straight. Baron Davis and Steven Jackson have been two of the worst, but GSW made a big rebound by getting them super-cheap. They'd have to worry a little about reuniting SJax and Tinsley, and they'd certainly need to be compensated for using up 2010 cap space, but with long contracts to Monta Ellis, Biedrins, and Maggette, this might not be such a big issue.