The Amazingly Sucky Game Thread -Wiz vs Bucks 11/5 8 Eastern

[LyricalRico]

"That was not NBA basketball, it's as simple as that," Jordan said. "There were no NBA plays being made out there. We addressed them tonight in the locker room, so I'm going to put a careful eye on our personnel and what we are doing out there. I think the trend is telling me something. I'm trying to be loyal to NBA vets and the continuity theme but I'm growing very impatient with it."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 04948.html

While I am still disgusted with his coaching effort from last night this quote makes it appear that EJ might finally get it.

I'm 99% sure that only applies to Blatche. He allowed Blatche to start tonight and he didn't produce. His later comments about McGee getting time even though he makes mistakes would seem to support that as well.

[LyricalRico]

Jamison will always be tradeable. He doesn't have a Ben Wallace 15 million a year deal.

After this year, here's what's left on Jamison's contract:

$11.6M
$13.3M
$15.0M

That may not be Ben Wallace numbers but it's up there. Of course he has more to offer than Ben Wallace but I still don't see many teams out there willing to take on that much salary for guy who will be 33 next June. it would have to be a team that's desperate for somebody to play the 4 and who has contracts to send back that aren't all that palatable either.

Besides, Abe Polin will never approve a Jamison trade so the point is moot until there is an ownership change.

[doclinkin]

I mentioned this before and I'll say it again. I REALLY liked the lineup we had for a while early in the 4th quarter with McGuire and McGee at PF and C. Those guys were really active on the glass and were filling the lanes on the break. We should call that unit "Big Mac".

Take those guys, surround them with Young and Butler plus either one of Dixon or Stevenson; and that's a pretty damn good unit with respectable D, good O, and a deadly fast break attack. It'll be downright ridiculous when we can surround those two with Arenas, Young and Butler.

Agreed and double-agreed. McGuire still can't finish or do much with the ball, but boy can he go get it. He acts as a great weakside safety net for McGee trying to block the ball.

I'm not as panicked by the slow start. This team always lags to start the season then EJ makes an adjustment and we really catch fire in December. Usually we lag in January, though. Difference this year is that we get Arenas back mid season (inshallah as the muslims say, god willin'). In the meantime the vets and young puppies and coach all need to learn each other. AD and DSteve have fallen in a ditch, but Dixon and Nick Young are making a solid claim for their minutes. McGee is pushing Blatche. Songaila may be much maligned but he's playing well even with no boards to his credit. When Songaila is on court Nick Young gets sprung loose with picks and screens.

Good to see EJ is getting fed up with the poor play from the starters and starting to trust the yougn puppies more. You can complain that he should have seen this in training camp when the young guys were beating the starters (with Haywood even) but he's right to be patient and loyal to his vets until the ex-rookies prove they can do the thing conclusively. They're making the argument. Or AD and DS2 are making the argument for them. Again though, they'll be solid heady roleplayers to bring in off the bench once the real talent has claimed the floor.

Blatche, though. He just needs to relax, not try to star, just put in solid effort at both ends. If he were just a little more heady and steady I'd play him next to Big 'Geez. Just to show him that the future plans include both of them playing together, no need to panic.

[fishercob]

Blatche, though. He just needs to relax, not try to star, just put in solid effort at both ends. If he were just a little more heady and steady I'd play him next to Big 'Geez. Just to show him that the future plans include both of them playing together, no need to panic.

I think there has been a shared failure on the part of AB and the organization as to the definition of his role and development of his game. I cringed watching him launch threes in summer league and go for coast to coast drives.

From day one, he should have been told his job was to rebound, defend and make open jumpers. Keep the ball moving on offense, and only put it on the floor when you're going to the basket to finish at the rim. No weak shixt, no fadeaways, no leaving your feet without a plan. Develop his confidence and work habits as a hustle player, and let his talent take over from there.

Four years in and he's a jack-off of many trades, but a master of none. His game is a mess, which is a shame becuase he's a talented kid who has shown flashes. But this is why he was available as a second rounder. No college experience has hurt him a great deal, and the team has had to try to develop him on the fly while winning games at the same time. It's hasn't worked.

[jminkoff]

- I'm 99% sure that only applies to Blatche. He allowed Blatche to start tonight and he didn't produce. His later comments about McGee getting time even though he makes mistakes would seem to support that as well.

I would really like to see the rook get in there....he at least has touch around the basket and isn't scared of anyone. Anyone else enjoy the "dunk"...he was almost outside the lane and threw it in...Daniels needs to be benched, I just don't see him starting on any other team in the NBA.

[Dat2U]

Yall folks got to remember, AD does this same crap every year. I don't necessarily think AD is done, but he always starts of the first half of the season playing like he just woke up out of a coma. It's ridiculous and it demonstrates why he doesn't deserve the contract he has. If AD was really a class act, he'd offer to give back half his salary each year because he only shows up during the 2nd half of each season.

I've long wanted AD gone. Nights like last night just make it more apparent that something needs to be changed.

[dobrojim]

I'm actually going to go a little against the grain on Dray in this game.
I thought he was decent. I seem to remember a couple solid plays.
And at least he can grab a freakin board. He's being given no rope.
He needs to settle down, relax mentally, and just play.

But our starting guards get destroyed every time.

Dixon and Young both had decent games.

Young, at times, is looking almost Jordan-esque the way he
can score at will and the rest of his game is much improved.

I got your back on that one, too, jim. I thought Blatche defended Bogut better than McGee and much, much, much better than Darius.

Blatche appears to be scared to make a mistake out there, but he at least bodied up Bogut and kept him from dominating the game. Bogut can pin McGee inside and push him under the basket by backing him down. He can block shots and just have his way with Darius at C.

Blatche didn't do too poorly against Bogut defensively.

the +/- numbers seem to back us up as well re 'Dray

[dobrojim]

He's talking about AD. AD might be regressing as a player now.

EJ substitution patterns are and have always been questionable. DSong has no business playing at the end of an NBA basketball game. There were guys who Washington could have picked in the second round who would contribute more on the court than DSong.

I think CCJ was dead on here. DSong wasn't horrible in this game, except for the fact
he was playing C. Put him in for AJ with McGee, N1, and Dixon and you got something.

DS was horrible in this game. AD as well.

[W. Unseld]

DSong on an undersized center is one thing but D-Song on a wide, skilled 7 footer is quite another. I didn't see him making many mistakes. He knows how to play the game, he rotates well on defense, he cuts to the open spot (save one glaring play last night) and he knocks down the open j. If you watch him up close live he's also very, very physical. All of this is for naught if you ask a 6'8" guy to guard a skilled, wide bodied 7 footer.

[Dat2U]

DSong on an undersized center is one thing but D-Song on a wide, skilled 7 footer is quite another. I didn't see him making many mistakes. He knows how to play the game, he rotates well on defense, he cuts to the open spot (save one glaring play last night) and he knocks down the open j. If you watch him up close live he's also very, very physical. All of this is for naught if you ask a 6'8" guy to guard a skilled, wide bodied 7 footer.

DSuck on anybody taller than him is a mistake. What we forget is he's even undersized and a poor rebounder for a PF. He's barely passable at his natural position. As a backup PF getting 12 minutes a night I could probably deal with him. As for him being the biggest player in a Wizards uniform on the court at any given situation, its completely unacceptable.

As jimjj said a few pages back. Songalia & Jamison should not be playing together in the front court. Sure, maybe it allows for ideal spacing offensively but there's too much we give up in size, length, toughness, defense & rebounding.

Songaila if he's not to kill us while he's in there, needs to be paired with length & athleticism. Pairing him with McGee might be a good idea. Blatche, if he ever gets it together again, might be another option.

[W. Unseld]

I'm not going to call the guy Dsuck. I get frustrated with a lot of the players but I don't think it's fair to him. Watch him play and see how often you think he's out of position (it will be rare). He's extremely fundamentally solid and he knows how to play dirty to boot. I think he can win his matchup against smaller centers and slower PFs. Asking him to guard, Shaq, Big Z, Bogut etc. is a recipe for disaster but I don't really blame that on him.

Maybe I'm biased b/c he was extremely nice and patient w/my bosses kids when we ran into him in Richmond but I biased or not I know his fundamentals are there and what he's being asked to do right now isn't really his fault. Asking him to guard centers is like asking a TE to block a good DE in single coverage. That TE is going to get abused but that doesn't mean he sucks.

[nate33]

I'm not going to call the guy Dsuck. I get frustrated with a lot of the players but I don't think it's fair to him. Watch him play and see how often you think he's out of position (it will be rare). He's extremely fundamentally solid and he knows how to play dirty to boot. I think he can win his matchup against smaller centers and slower PFs. Asking him to guard, Shaq, Big Z, Bogut etc. is a recipe for disaster but I don't really blame that on him.

Maybe I'm biased b/c he was extremely nice and patient w/my bosses kids when we ran into him in Richmond but I biased or not I know his fundamentals are there and what he's being asked to do right now isn't really his fault. Asking him to guard centers is like asking a TE to block a good DE in single coverage. That TE is going to get abused but that doesn't mean he sucks.

Seconded.

I don't like seeing a bad move by EJ being transformed into criticism of Songaila. I think Songaila has played pretty darn well this season. He sets good picks, spaces the floor, makes proper rotations, and steps out on the pick and roll well. Even when playing center, he has been instrumental in a couple of big 2nd quarter comebacks.

Songaila is a limited player who should only be used in limited circumstances. He is being asked to do more than he is capable, but at least he's doing the best he can and he's avoiding bonehead mistakes. I've got no problems with Songaila getting 15 minutes of burn at PF and maybe 5 minutes at C (particularly with Haywood out and Blatche sucking).

[old skool]

I was at the game and I had a different view of the impact that Songalia had at center in the fourth quarter and OT.

Songalia was effective getting Bogut away from the basket. His mid range jump shot forced Bogut to follow him away from the hoop, allowing other Wizards to get rebounds against the Bucks. In the 4th Q and OT, the Wizards rebounded with the Bucks. Early in the 4th quarter, Songalia was attacking the Bucks point guards, disrupting the Bucks offense. His mobility allowed him to do that without being exploited. Bogut did not score very much, because Songalia was effective at keeping him from good offensive position on the low blocks.

I was surprised that the Bucks won the game. The Wizards seemed to slow down as the game drew to a close. No hops. No speed. No enthusiasm. The Bucks players - especially Jefferson and Ridnour - showed more hustle and determination. I wouldn't put that all on the coach. You can't coach hustle. The Wizards were not very tough minded.

The biggest shortcoming that I saw was that late in the game, the Wizards did not attack the Bucks who had 5 fouls. The Bucks had to be careful because Bogut, Ridnour and Mbah a Moute all were in foul trouble. Instead of trying to create foul contact, the Wizards were taking long jumpers. That was a mistake. The Bucks would have been hurting trying to replace Bogut with Gadzuric, or Mbah a Moute with Alexander.

I was impressed with Nick Young, but he relies on his spin move too much. Scouts will pick up that predictable tendency and coach teams to overplay that move. He needs to be more varied in his approach.

oLd sKool

[doclinkin]

I was at the game and I had a different view of the impact that Songalia had at center in the fourth quarter and OT.

Songalia was effective getting Bogut away from the basket. His mid range jump shot forced Bogut to follow him away from the hoop, allowing other Wizards to get rebounds against the Bucks. In the 4th Q and OT, the Wizards rebounded with the Bucks. Early in the 4th quarter, Songalia was attacking the Bucks point guards, disrupting the Bucks offense. His mobility allowed him to do that without being exploited. Bogut did not score very much, because Songalia was effective at keeping him from good offensive position on the low blocks.

I was surprised that the Bucks won the game. The Wizards seemed to slow down as the game drew to a close. No hops. No speed. No enthusiasm. The Bucks players - especially Jefferson and Ridnour - showed more hustle and determination. I wouldn't put that all on the coach. You can't coach hustle. The Wizards were not very tough minded.

The biggest shortcoming that I saw was that late in the game, the Wizards did not attack the Bucks who had 5 fouls. The Bucks had to be careful because Bogut, Ridnour and Mbah a Moute all were in foul trouble. Instead of trying to create foul contact, the Wizards were taking long jumpers. That was a mistake. The Bucks would have been hurting trying to replace Bogut with Gadzuric, or Mbah a Moute with Alexander.

I was impressed with Nick Young, but he relies on his spin move too much. Scouts will pick up that predictable tendency and coach teams to overplay that move. He needs to be more varied in his approach.

oLd sKool

Quoted for truth. On DSong especially --but I too wanted the team to attack those with 5 fouls. That can be laid at the foot of the Coach, but also on the vets as well, who have been playing awful, tired, slow, sloppy. Caron may have tried to attack, but he lost the ball. We're pretty light on ballhandling attackers right now. Even Nick One tends to fade and drift and avoid contact. Though hey, we got 50 foul shots so we must have somebody who can force a hack.

I like the suggestion in the papers that the coach may be becoming less patient with the vets. This at least may mean more minutes for the youngsters, even if there's no shake up in the starters for now. We'll see how it turns out.

[Kanyewest]

I like to blame the players for this one and the 17 missed free throws. People are wondering why the ball wasn't put in Butler's hand when he had 5 turnovers and a critical one that led to the Bucks tying the game. Blatche wasn't far behind with 4 turnovers in only 22 minutes. The Wizards halfcourt defense was actually decent but they had 20 turnovers which resulted 23 points. They also gave up 33 fastbreak points.

[lupin]

Where's that HoF Posting thread? I want to throw all of the Juan Dixon love in there before it is forgotten when he has his first/next bad game.

I've always liked JD, but the turnabout around here is enough to give someone whiplash.

[W. Unseld]

Old skool, great post, I have one philosophical disagreement: you CAN coach hussle. I think Skiles does, I'm not a big EJ critic and I'm not saying he doesn't (I've never seen a practice) but hussle, along with conditioning can be coached.