Is Miller the Problem?

sixerswillrule · Post #1 » by **sixerswillrule** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 4:09 am

I have loved Andre Miller and what he has done for this team over the past two years. But with the acquisition of Elton Brand, it doesn't seem to be working with him as our PG. We all know that his shot is pretty much non-existent outside of fifteen feet. But so far this season, especially tonight against Orlando, he couldn't even hit his mid range shot. Or layups, for that matter. It could just have been an off night, but with his lack of long range shooting, he needs to be that much more effective everywhere else. There is no spacing on the floor when Brand gets the ball. He was doubled every time he got the ball tonight, and we could not do a single thing about it. Brand's game is the pick and roll or the pick and pop, but without a PG who can keep the defense honest, it won't work. A shooting PG would work wonders for this team. I know it's early, and more time needs to be allowed before making any drastic moves. But if we're not able to get it together, something needs to be done...

Post #2 » by **tk76** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 4:16 am

Possibilities:

1. he is out of shape- which is inexcusable but correctable.

2. He has lost that last bit of quickness to let him shoot on balance- and like many older pg's has just fallen off the cliff. In which case at least he is a 10M expiring.

3. He just can't play well off of a low post scorer. He works best passing ahead and finding back door cutters. Having a guy post upor play pick and roll just plays away from Millers strengths. In which case he needs to adjust fast or be traded for a PG who's skill set complements a good post scorer.

Post #3 » by **dbodner** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 4:44 am

3. He just can't play well off of a low post scorer.

This is part of the problem.

Elton Brand really isn't this dominant low-post player. I think he's kinda gotten that reputation, and it's not really deserved. Sure, he's a CAPABLE low post player, maybe even good. But he's never been a guy you dump the ball down to and play inside out, which is what we're trying to do. He's not a great passer, and that's not his bread and butter. Even before his injury, his bread and butter was the pick and roll. 70% of his attempts in 2005-2006 (when he scored nearly 25 ppg) were jump shots.

The real problem is Miller is a TERRIBLE pick and roll player, which was Brand's bread and butter the last few years.

So, we've effectively taken away his best offensive move, because Miller is a bad pick and roll point guard. And we've tried to run our offense through him in the post, where he's only a good post-up player, and not a great passer. And this is even worse because Miller and Iguodala aren't keeping their man honest, and Sam's man can double off of him with little concern.

That's not to say that I don't think signing Brand was a great coup, but Ed still has some tough decisions to make and a lot of work to do before we're contenders. And Miller (followed by Sam) are the most likely candidates.

Post #4 » by **tk76** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 4:45 am

That post was so weak that I actually laughed for the first time tonight. Am I supposed to be some kind of bad person because I don't root for perennial champions? I guess I am just a loyal Philadelphia fan, and just don't root for who ever is good this year so that I can feel like I am a winner vicariously.

Hah, that was really funny. Sounds like a Cowboy fan (the kind that root against their home team- the ones who live in Dallas are fine in my book.).

.... sorry, I guess the troll's post was deleted by Debodner...

Post #5 » by **tk76** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 4:50 am

dbodner wrote:
3. He just can't play well off of a low post scorer.

That's not to say that I don't think signing Brand was a great coup, but Ed still has some tough decisions to make and a lot of work to do before we're contenders. And Miller (followed by Sam) are the most likely candidates.

Agree, but that is a bitter pill to swallow- and it won't happen quickly.

At least having Speights makes dealing Sam at least possible. I don't know what PG we could get though- and Lou seems to be regressing daily and I am no longer holding out hope for him as a PG.

Hinrich is the only name (if Chicago wants to dump salary) and I don't know if he is worth the investment.

sixerswillrule · Post #6 » by **sixerswillrule** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 5:06 am

I've been thinking Hinrich myself, and I recall his name being brought up on this board before. He's not what you would call a pure point guard, but we don't need that. He's a very good outside shooter, which is exactly what we need to go alongside Brand in the pick and roll. He's no longer the starter in Chicago, but I'm not sure what they would want or what we would be willing to give in return for him. I would be willing to give up Dalembert if we could get another big man somehow. Some other names that come to mind are Delonte West and Randy Foye.

IversonsMother · Post #7 » by **IversonsMother** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 5:07 am

tk76 wrote:
dbodner wrote:
3. He just can't play well off of a low post scorer.

That's not to say that I don't think signing Brand was a great coup, but Ed still has some tough decisions to make and a lot of work to do before we're contenders. And Miller (followed by Sam) are the most likely candidates.

Agree, but that is a bitter pill to swallow- and it won't happen quickly.

At least having Speights makes dealing Sam at least possible. I don't know what PG we could get though- and Lou seems to be regressing daily and I am no longer holding out hope for him as a PG.

Hinrich is the only name (if Chicago wants to dump salary) and I don't know if he is worth the investment.

Unlike many here, I don't think Speights is anywhere near good enough right now to play major minutes, and especially clutch minutes. I think Sam has actually played decent this year.. he is a guy that doesn;t demand the ball on offense, and plays solid interior D and rebounds and alters shots.

Miller and Iguadala especialy are what is killing us right now... Not to mention Cheeks.

Wildfire · Post #8 » by **Wildfire** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 5:08 am

I still think Hinrich is a good PG, and he's relatively young. If he's available for cheap (which he has to be) then I look to get him without question.

He's almost exactly the type of PG this team needs.

ness · Post #9 » by **ness** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 5:14 am

You know what our biggest problem is ...defense..I said it before as long as we leave players wide open were going to keep losing cause as bad as we played tonight we could have won if we would of played better defense.

I can't remember this team playing this bad of defense..do anybody else see it or is it just me. I know our offense is bad but our defense is far worst.

sixerswillrule · Post #10 » by **sixerswillrule** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 5:17 am

Speights at this point is certainly not enough to make Dalembert expendable. But like I said, if he can get us a PG like Hinrich, I would do it, but only if another big man could be had in return or in a follow up trade.

barkley34 · Post #11 » by **barkley34** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 7:59 am

dbodner wrote:The real problem is Miller is a TERRIBLE pick and roll player, which was Brand's bread and butter the last few years.

Why don't we just use Iggy/Brand for the pick and roll then? That is what we did when we had Joe Smith, him and Iggy were good at the pick and roll when we were winning those meaningless games to close out that season.

PrimeTime21 · Post #12 » by **PrimeTime21** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 12:50 pm

Does Miller and Brand still have a feud brewing? Andre seems to have absolutely no chemistry with the team right now, it looks like he is just going through the motions but losing can do that I guess. I haven't seen every game but I've yet to see Miller and Brand high five or anything.

gusto910 · Post #13 » by **gusto910** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 1:38 pm

7-24 shooting last nite. Some of those shots he was trying was hard to look at. Forcing shots when he has 3 men on him. Willie Green was a big blame for last nites lost,too. Just when you thought he was turning it around.

Post #14 » by **The Guilty Party** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 2:08 pm

As Bill Simmons pointed out in his NBA Preview, everyone was worked up into a frenzy about the Sixers this year except for him since he saw the 2003 Clippers team that was lead by Brand and Miller. I can't be positive but I'm fairly certain it's a bad idea to do anything that the Clippers have done before.

Post #15 » by **tk76** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 2:13 pm

The Guilty Party wrote: I can't be positive but I'm fairly certain it's a bad idea to do anything that the Clippers have done before.

The road to success- do exactly the opposite of what the Clipper would do. WWTCD- What Wouldn't the Clippers do in this situation.

ankle420breaker · Post #16 » by **ankle420breaker** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 2:41 pm

A lot of talk about Miller underachieving, and rightfully so, but despite us using him a little ineffectively, Brand hasn't shown us much yet either...

bball4life · Post #17 » by **bball4life** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 2:55 pm

I agree that Brand hasn't been stellar, but what on earth is he going to do when 3 guys bullrush him every time he touches the ball? Right now, both Miller and Dalembert's guys can maul Brand at will with no real repercussions.

If, after this 4 day break, Mo does not have any recognizable plays for when Brand gets doubled and tripled, then we are absolutely screwed. As has already been stated, pick and pop isn't working because Miller is playing with a fork in his back.

I wonder if Portland would be interested in Andre Miller if they think they can contend this year....

76ciology · Post #18 » by **76ciology** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 3:26 pm

The reason why Brand isn't stellar isn't because of the double teams. It's because he is not being utilized correctly.

About Miller. I think we need to try inserting Lou Williams in the starting unit and play the SG position. He might really jump start our halfcourt offense with his scoring prowess and his potential to be the perfect mate for the two man game with EB.

We could try that. And if won't work, then that is the time to look some trades involving Andre Miller.

blazehound · Post #19 » by **blazehound** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 3:59 pm

ankle420breaker wrote:A lot of talk about Miller underachieving, and rightfully so, but despite us using him a little ineffectively, Brand hasn't shown us much yet either...

How could he? So far he's been put in a position to fail with this offense. His defense, rebounding, and shot blocking as been there, it's just on the offensive end, there is zero chemistry. It's one big cluster ****.

geiger · Post #20 » by **geiger** » Fri Nov 7, 2008 5:25 pm

I don't know if Miller is the problem, but he is definitely a problem. He played horribly with Brand before and now appears to be playing horribly again. He's been absolutely attrocious at both ends of the floor. How does a pass first PG launch 24 shots in a game, especially when he's missing them and isn't even trying to get to the line? As Dbodner pointed out, Miller's bread and butter is to be on a run and gun team, where he passes the ball off quickly. He's a great outlet passer, but he's not a great interior passer nor is he a good pick and roll player.

Plus, the more I watch Iggy the more I realize that he needs the ball in his hands to be successful. With Brand getting his touches in the post and in the pick and roll game and with Miller having to handle the ball a lot to get his points, Iggy also gets taken out of his game - especially with the emergence of Young.

Unfortunately, I don't know if there is a market out there for Miller that would net us something of value in return.

Not sure how feasible it would be, but it would be nice to ship Iggy, Evans and Ratiff to Charlotte for Jason Richardson and then ship Miller to Portland for Blake, Webster, and Frye.