Will History Repeat or Will We Change It This Time ?

[nate33]

^
If it's so difficult to find such a guy, then why are you blaming EG? He was usually picking around 17th in the draft. How many fast-footed, 6-9, perimeter defensive-minded, 3-point hitting players have been found in the drafts subsequent to our picks?

[WizarDynasty]

^
If it's so difficult to find such a guy, then why are you blaming EG? He was usually picking around 17th in the draft. How many fast-footed, 6-9, perimeter defensive-minded, 3-point hitting players have been found in the drafts subsequent to our picks?

yeah well that's what GM's are paid for. To go out smart the other gm's the strengthen the team. Javale obviously was a great pick but this was a major need back when we figure out jared couldn't hit a outside jump shot. Way before we signed deshaun to replace him and even before we got caron in a trade. i would have kept demarr johnson over dominic mcquire. Just shows how lil EG understands the perimeter defense. He got dominic mcquire, a inside shot blocker, thinking that he could play perimeter defense and hit perimeter jumpshots. Dominic is actually a significant down grade from jared jeffries but i am pretty sure grunfeld was thinking he was getting a talent close to jared..except he didn't realize how important basketball IQ is.
Every championship teams just about has a 6'9 long armed athletic perimeter defender to successfully challenge threes. That fact that eddie hasn't given Jordan this type of player since jared Jeffries shows that grunfeld doesn't have the chess skills necessary to pull the player we needed. Jamison should have always been a perimeter defender...instead of shot chucking no defense playing out of position forward. If grunfeld was going to get jamison, he should have always known that he needed his jared jeffries with a jumper. Never secured this player and instead got pecherov...antonio daniels...etan thomas...i mean these are the moves that grunfeld made when his primary focus should have been a high IQ long defensive foward that could his a open jumper.

Getting Nick young was awesome though..especially for what this kid will be able to do with his length defensively on the perimeter. grundfeld did address to a certain a extend and we will see those benefits soon enough. But 6'9 player with long arms and quick feet..is really ideal for stopping shutting down a championship shooting three point squad and being able to taken on "cough" lebron..paul pierce...hedo and r.lewis, prince. All the top teams have a long three point shooter and unless you have an even longer defensive foward to challenge three point shot...deshaun and caron, jamison,-- the only person we have with a decent chance is nick young...-- nick young will be above average...but in crunch time when you need to lock down the perimeter...caron and jamison need to both be on the bench..neither are good defensive perimeter players because neither has quick foot speed or long enough reach to make up for slow foot speed.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Last year, they were able to hold it together when Arenas went down. This year? No way. They don't have Haywood anchoring the middle and some of their best players aren't ready for primetime just yet (McGee and Young). This is a bad team that seems to have aged rapidly over the offseason. Not only do we need a new coach but we need a trade or two to shake things up. We need to get bigger, quicker, younger, and more athletic.

I agree 100 percent, Jordan's days are numbered. He has to go asap. And also time to package Jamison and Daniels up to a contender to shed salary.

[GilArenas88]

Am I the only one here who thinks a new coach is the best idea by far. For those who say you can't fire EJ are dellusional. EJ has been a pulling us down in one way or the other since he's got here. EJ win totals since arriving here are 25, 45, 42, 41, and 43 and it doesn't look to promising for this season. Hey even if we turn it around like last year no way we win more then 43-45 and thats extremely generous at this point. 39.2 wins per year since arriving here and he deserves grace, I dont think so, that mediocrity at his best. It baffles me how he's the longest tenured coach in the East and 3 or 4 in the league.

I would love a coach who demanded us to play at least solid defense and would have the balls to get in players faces when they take bad shot, after bad shot, after bad shot. Eddie Jordans leash from the moment he got here has been way to long. This organization acts like he's Phil Jackson or something, he was a glorified assitant, and of yeah he led the King's to a brutal season. How many things does Eddie do that just irks everyone on this board. Refusing to play Haywood in the 4th so many times, refusing to give Haywood anything over 30 minutes when he's our defensive anchor. Poor play calling out of timeouts. No grace given to young players, the instant they make a mistake they get pulled, and my opinion thats why Blatche is having trouble developing, or atleast has a lot to do with it. He plays favorites with scrubs like Etan, Ruffin, Songalia. Small ball, putting fowards at center when were getting torched and getting killed on the boards. Running our veterans into the ground by playing them heavy minutes ala Jamison, Caron, Arenas, when Hughes was here. Never has had the balls to call one of our stars out for bad shot selection. The stubborness to make adjustment when needed. The list goes on and on, and frankly im tired of it we've been destroyed by the Cavs three years in a row, we need change.

This is how I see the franchise and team at this point...

Very happy with: McGee, Young, Haywood (although he's injured)

Happy with: Caron, Dixon

Okay with: Arenas and Pecherov

50/50 on: Jamison, Blatche, McGuire, EG, Polin

Displeased with: Stevenson, Daniels, Brown

Loath: EJ, Thomas, Songalia, and EJ again

Shoot lets get a starting line-up of Haywood, McGee, Butler, Young, Arenas

Bench: Blatche, Jamison, Stevenson, Dixon

IMO that team would be so much better then what we have right now. Plenty of scoring in both the staring lineup and off the bench solid defensive front court and nice long backcourt.

One can dream...

[FreeBalling]

Lets see, we lost Haywood for the year, AD is hurt, Mason shipped out, ET was out all of last year and our best player is out till Dec.

You think a coach is going to fix that? You got a man crush on EJ, LOLOLOLOLOL.

Maybe more people on this board should show more respect for Haywood.

[GilArenas88]

Have to agree with you FreeBalling 100%. Hey not even so much people who root for this team. Haywood IMO is not one of the most underated players in the league, he IMO is one of the most under-utilized players in the league as well. If Haywood was given a consistent 32-35 mpg I think he's average somewhere in the neighborhood of 14pts 9reb 2.5blks 1.5ast on 55fg% and 70ft% with stellar man defense and good helo defense. I've actually beena big proponent of giving Haywood more touches, I really think he's underated on offense.

[WizarDynasty]

Am I the only one here who thinks a new coach is the best idea by far. For those who say you can't fire EJ are dellusional. EJ has been a pulling us down in one way or the other since he's got here. EJ win totals since arriving here are 25, 45, 42, 41, and 43 and it doesn't look to promising for this season. Hey even if we turn it around like last year no way we win more then 43-45 and thats extremely generous at this point. 39.2 wins per year since arriving here and he deserves grace, I dont think so, that mediocrity at his best. It baffles me how he's the longest tenured coach in the East and 3 or 4 in the league.

I would love a coach who demanded us to play at least solid defense and would have the balls to get in players faces when they take bad shot, after bad shot, after bad shot. Eddie Jordans leash from the moment he got here has been way to long. This organization acts like he's Phil Jackson or something, he was a glorified assitant, and of yeah he led the King's to a brutal season. How many things does Eddie do that just irks everyone on this board. Refusing to play Haywood in the 4th so many times, refusing to give Haywood anything over 30 minutes when he's our defensive anchor. Poor play calling out of timeouts. No grace given to young players, the instant they make a mistake they get pulled, and my opinion thats why Blatche is having trouble developing, or atleast has a lot to do with it. He plays favorites with scrubs like Etan, Ruffin, Songalia. Small ball, putting fowards at center when were getting torched and getting killed on the boards. Running our veterans into the ground by playing them heavy minutes ala Jamison, Caron, Arenas, when Hughes was here. Never has had the balls to call one of our stars out for bad shot selection. The stubborness to make adjustment when needed. The list goes on and on, and frankly im tired of it we've been destroyed by the Cavs three years in a row, we need change.

This is how I see the franchise and team at this point...

Very happy with: McGee, Young, Haywood (although he's injured)

Happy with: Caron, Dixon

Okay with: Arenas and Pecherov

50/50 on: Jamison, Blatche, McGuire, EG, Polin

Displeased with: Stevenson, Daniels, Brown

Loath: EJ, Thomas, Songalia, and EJ again

Shoot lets get a starting line-up of Haywood, McGee, Butler, Young, Arenas

Bench: Blatche, Jamison, Stevenson, Dixon

IMO that team would be so much better then what we have right now. Plenty of scoring in both the staring lineup and off the bench solid defensive front court and nice long backcourt.

One can dream...

Ok for us to blame eddie for this team being 0-5 is pretty dumb. We have by far the worse defensive personnel in the league. Etan is horrible, Blatche has no respect from teh refs. Jamison and AD, are probably the worst starting defensive players at their respective positions in the easter conference...etan is pretty close to being the worse too. That's 3 starting positions with the worse defensive player in the conference manning the position. You can't expect eddie to go far when Grunfeld has provide him such a weak cast to start with. the trend before up until he jarvis hayes selection was to go with players who had offense and no defense. Jamison in my opinion is not an allstar...he is an offensive player that hits the open shot when gil drives and opens up the lane for gil. On defense Jamison kills all of the advantages he gave you on offense. U might be able to blame some of blatche's lack of basketball IQ on eddie. But caron was always inherently flawed at the small foward position because he doesn't have the wingspan to make up for his lack of quickness stopping guard dribble penetration and can't really relies on penetrating guard to create spacing for his offensive moves. deshaun...NIck has better perimeter defensive potential than him and this is only nicks second years..yet deshaun is the starter...that should tell you something. Arenas has been hurt for 2 years and we been pluggin' in sub par pgs..yet managed to get to playoffs. Eventually this team breaks down when the catalyst that opens all of their games is gone. Is like a person caught in quicksand..they all fought hard initially to keep from sinking because they still had their warrior spirit...but the longer arenas was gone..and the longer they went without a penetrating point guard that could create easy shots...the more wear and tear they all went through fighting to create their own shots...too much strain each plays just to get a decent shot when the offense is based on a penetrating guard. Nick may be able to take arenas place and revive the offense if you keeps improving his driving explosiveness and gets on par with arenas...but that was arenas special...not many guards in the league had the explosive power and strength to over power and beat the defense into the paint...but even that style..starts takin' a bruising on your body continually getting pounded by bigmen....which is why arenas jumpshot and bein' deadly from three allowed mediocre defensive players to get honors of "allstar". Roger Mason spelled a lil bit of arenas last season with this three point shooting and jumpshooting and was way better defender than AD. But currently as it stands now...Nick doesn't have teh star power that arenas has and he doesn't command the same respect from his team mates as arenas. He is getting better but still isnt' as good as arenas at causing an entire defense to collapse spring jamison and butler free..almost every play. With arenas, jamison could basically live on three point line and earn and easy life and hope to just out score the other team and not draw to much attention to his defensive and offensive deficiencies for a powerforward...poor post offense, poor post defensive..poor perimeter defense. A pretty deadly combination for a player to have. His only calling was that arenas finds jamision valuable because it gives arenas spacing on a drive. But jamison is by far a bench player when going agaist a championship level team because he can't defend a true powerforward in teh post nor can make the big defensive stop to seal the game which means he is an inherent bench player at crunch time on defense. The true deal is that we gotta hope that blatche dramatically improves his offensive IQ and focus on drawing fouls on offense and hope that ernie can bring in a long strong defensive small forward that can hit three point shot. Currently dominic mcquire is incapable of making high offensive basketball decisions...that or eddie hasn't allowed him to make mistakes and develop.... i think this is probably eddie's biggest fault. He still hasn't allowed mcquire and blatche enough mistakes on tape for them to get sufficient feedback and chances for improvement in game time scenarioes. These two guys are not going to get better in practice going against their fellow wizards players because the wizard personel outside of haywood and nick are all subpar slackers on defense. you aren't going to get better going agaist sub par defenders in practice.

[Benjammin]

^^^^^

Paragraphs can be a writer's best friend.

[FreeBalling]

^^^^^

Paragraphs can be a writer's best friend.

LOL.

[hands11]

It's hardly after just an 0-5 start. What I laid out is a 2-12 start. Beside, it's not just this year. It's 2 years of this back to back. And it's so much more then that. We have years of data. This teams coaching isn't helping this team grow. It's success is mostly the players getting it done in spite of the coaching. Except the FT improvement from Haywood last year.

But there is a problem as you mentioned. How does it reflect on the organization. Sadly, the just extended his contract which they in no way needed to do. This is the same mistake they made last time we were in that situation. All they needed to do was start the season with EJ in the last year of his contract. If we had done this we would be fine.

But I and many other believe Abe is mostly behind the extensions. Since it is his money, I guess he can blow it as he feels. As I pointed out before, step one for this franchise is new ownership. Till that changes, you can't truly hold EG accountable. If Abe wants to stay the owner, he needs to get out of the way and let EG run things. I just never felt that was 100% true.

But when the crowd starts to boo and the seats are empty, then the pressure will rise.

This franchise is still loaded to move forward if we make the right moves.

I don't disagree with any of this. There is a fairly long record of mediocrity with EJ. If EG had made the decision to fire EJ in the offseason, it would have perhaps raised a few eyebrows, but nobody would have felt that EG was rash or delusional. It would not have impaired the credibility of the organization (any more than it is already impaired, that is).

But now that he was recently extended, things have changed. If EG fires EJ now, it sends a signal to everybody that EG has a quick trigger finger and no loyalty. No coach will want to play for a guy who fired the former coach 5 games after extending his contract.

If we go 0-10 or 3-16 or something like that, then EG can fire EJ. But it has to get worse than it is right now. Right now things are bad, but we haven't quite reached the point of total hopelessness.

But even given that they did do that, which I admit makes things tougher, I don't think it sends the signal you are talking about. EG has a history of being overly loyal and anyone who has been paying attention knows that EJ was hand picked by Abe and realizes Abe finger prints have been all over these contract issues. It hardly reflect on EG. People in the know know who and what EG is about.

The 0-10 or 2-12 record is more about convincing Abe then it's about covering EGs butt.

Coaches know EG is a professional GM they can trust.

Over the summer I wrote... the biggest issue facing this team is it's ownership. I wish Abe would either get out of the way or sell the team to Ted.

[hands11]

^
If it's so difficult to find such a guy, then why are you blaming EG? He was usually picking around 17th in the draft. How many fast-footed, 6-9, perimeter defensive-minded, 3-point hitting players have been found in the drafts subsequent to our picks?

You tell him Nate. If you go year by year, pick by pick and salary by salary, then mix in what EG was allowed to do given Abe is the owner, then EG has done a great job. Some want to revise history.

I have places I wanted to see something different. I didn't agree with loosing both Blake and Dixon but so be it. I also wanted to see us trade AJ or GA a long time ago so we could get other pieces I though we needed since both are tweaners who play no D and I wanted a real PG and a real PF. But I'm even fine with what we did there though I would have liked it if we could have gotten them for less. But what EG has done gets him a favorable grade. B+ to an A.

McGee was a great pick. NY can ball. He got us GA when we sucked. He got CB in a steel trade and for a great contract. We kept Haywood when the coach didn't like him. Another great contact. He let Jefferies and Hughes walk when they wanted to much. Blatche is a talent considering when he was picked and what we paid him. I still think he will have brighter days if he had a better coach. EJ sucks with big men.

This team while loosing right now still is sitting pretty well for the future with picks, salaries, talent, and youth which is the job of a GM. We just need the right coach to maximize the talent and grow the team.

We should be able to finally move the large salaries of ET and AD if we need to come the trade dead line and DS and OP aren't signed for so much that we can't move either of them if we would like.

So if you look at the other pieces, we have 3 large contacts for our stars and awesome contacts for younger future star players like NY and McGee for 4/5 years.

This team is on good footing because of EGs management of the situation. We have stability, talent, and flexibility.

Coaching has delayed this teams development. Coaching is what holds them back and over plays a handful of proven stars so they burn out every year while our younger talent doesn't get enough playing time to develop. Lets get a good coach now so when we get Haywood and GA back, we can rock.

Haywood, AJ, CB, DS, GA
McGee, AB, DSong, NY, Dixon - Once GA is back I rather see Dixon lobbing to NY and McGee
OP, ET, DMAC, AD, D Brown

I could do lots of line ups that are good from this crew but this would make sense for now when considering all factors. To bad we won't see it because Haywood is out. Given that reality and other injuries I'd do something like this to keep thing balanced.

McGee, AJ/AB/ET, CB, NY, Dixon - AJ when we can get away with it, ET for muscle.
ET, AB/DSong, AJ, DS, AD
OP, DMAC, D Brown

A team lined up like this should be able to play around 500% ball.

We actually have more players then we need so we can consolidate when we get healthy.
Any of these players are on the blocks for the trade deadline or some could just get let go.

D Brown, DMAC, AD, OP, ET, DSong, DS

[FreeBalling]

From Hands (aka lust for EJ)

Coaching has delayed this teams development. Coaching is what holds them back and over plays a handful of proven stars so they burn out every year while our younger talent doesn't get enough playing time to develop. Lets get a good coach now so when we get Haywood and GA back, we can rock.
[/quote]
______________________________________________________________________________________________

So your saying it's the coach, maybe you could shed some light on the facts.

Last year, DS,AJ,BH all had a carrier years. ( What about RM not a bad year for a bench guy.)

If you don't like EJ style of coaching, I'm ok with that, but to say he is a poor coach I'm call B. S. on you Hands 11.

[hands11]

From Hands (aka lust for EJ)

Coaching has delayed this teams development. Coaching is what holds them back and over plays a handful of proven stars so they burn out every year while our younger talent doesn't get enough playing time to develop. Lets get a good coach now so when we get Haywood and GA back, we can rock.

______________________________________________________________________________________________

So your saying it's the coach, maybe you could shed some light on the facts.

Last year, DS,AJ,BH all had a carrier years. ( What about RM not a bad year for a bench guy.)

If you don't like EJ style of coaching, I'm ok with that, but to say he is a poor coach I'm call B. S. on you Hands 11.


[/quote]

NO BS Bro, just facts and well documented ones at that. Where to start. I just went over some line up changes. His line up, in game choices and rotations, lack of mins for players that will be here and are the future lead to less wins which has delayed this teams success.

If you want to read up on more reasons he has held them back just read any of the get ride of EJ threads or almost any game thread. That would be the best way to get an issue by issue - game by game review.

So what some player had some career years. Where is that getting us now ? Haywood could have done a lot more a lot sooner. It was EJ who held him back via mins. Then when he finally doesn't have any other choice by to start him and play him more. How are you going to give EJ credit for that ? Come on. If it was up to EJ, Etan would have started until we lost enough games that he had to make a change.

So now that there is no Haywood, I don't see DS and AJ producing those career numbers, do you ?

It's this same kind of thing that EJ does year after year by not playing the right people when he should and with the right combinations. Haywood is actually a great example of how these things are connected.

And right now the answer is just a clear about what to do. You start McGee. You start NY. Those are the pieces we are missing in the starting line up. McGee is the closest replacement for Haywood. As for DS, who gives a crap. He isn't a starter on a winning playoff team unless that team has a scoring PG and great post play. The best we have for that right now is NY.

You start your best center no matter how raw he is, he is still your best center.
And you start your one on one player. For us that is at SG. You need someone who can actually ball one on one and doesn't need an offensive system to create his own shot. This is what bails you out at the end of the clock and creates miss matches that creates the defensive movement that get open shots for players like AJ.

Same crap, different year. EJ doesn't line us up the best he can given the talent available and that is one of the main jobs of a HC. And even if he figures it out in the next 5 games it will still be more of the same, he figures it out to late. He should have done this 2 games ago at the min.

[hands11]

Looks like history always likes to repeat itself.

Dame this guy is slippery. EJs new nickname. The cat burgaler.

So he bought some more time. I'm sure we will be back here again.

[hands11]

Hold the presses.

Maybe history will not repeat.

http://www.stetsports.com/2008/11/08/if ... ie-jordan/

[Kanyewest]

aren't the knicks(!), like, 4-2?

maybe changing the coach does work sometimes.

they did bench some irritants, but i don't think they added much either.

They don't really have any major injuries like the Wizards.

[hands11]

"Will the ATL game be the final straw this time around ? If EJ leads this team to 0-9 or 1-8 with us likely ending the month 2-12, will he finally be gone. Is 0-9 or 1-8 enough or do we really have to see more of this movie ?

Can we finally get ride of this looser. Cuz if we end up with one of these records before he realizes who he really needs to be starting, it will just be more of the same. EJ making the obvious move to late and only after he had no other choice. We deserve more from our head coach then that. "

We still have a shot at a 2-12 month.

Note, EFJ starting line up at 1-7

Now we are 1-9 but since the line up changes, we played much better.
To bad we didnt start this sooner. McGee was the best starting center day game one.
Didn't he see that over the summer and in practice ?

Games EFJ was a total idiot 7
Games EFJ gave us a chance 3

I want a coach where those number are flipped or better. 3 bad 7 good or better.

I think that is reasonable to expect from a head coach.