Is it really a Big Two?

[Fencer reregistered]

Garnett is an utterly elite defensive player, and very good at the offensive end.
Pierce is an elite offensive player, and very good at the defensive end.
Ray Allen is a very good (albeit streaky) offensive player, and very adequate on the defensive end.

I'm beginning to think the Celts have a Big Two, not a Big Three. And I think a lot of fans and media would agree.

Is Ray Allen the best of the rest of the Cs? Probably, but it's not blindingly obvious. And that hesitation also goes to show: Allen is just not playing on the same level as Garnett and Pierce.

[Spud34]

Garnett is an utterly elite defensive player, and very good at the offensive end.
Pierce is an elite offensive player, and very good at the defensive end.
Ray Allen is a very good (albeit streaky) offensive player, and very adequate on the defensive end.

I'm beginning to think the Celts have a Big Two, not a Big Three. And I think a lot of fans and media would agree.

Is Ray Allen the best of the rest of the Cs? Probably, but it's not blindingly obvious. And that hesitation also goes to show: Allen is just not playing on the same level as Garnett and Pierce.

I thought this was common knowledge from day one?

[Celtics_Champs]

Hey, another thread dissing ray allen.

[SonicYouth34]

Leave Jesus alone, he is the oldest of the big three and he's a jump shooter, his shot isn't always gonna be falling. Look what happened to Chicago last year

[Scalamental]

Ray hit a huge three in that raptors game that was rolling off a pick, ice cold water in his vaines that was crucial to us winning that game. Yeah he wasn't huge for us tonight, but he is a big time player that deserves less crap then he's getting.

So, ENOUGH.

[rambo_ortega]

leave ray allen alone. he won games for us this year already and he still contributes around 16-20ppg in most nights which is just right for him.

[Fencer reregistered]

Hmm. I looked again. Allen's numbers are about as good as Pierce's, perhaps a little better. Now, Pierce is better than his numbers while Allen isn't particularly, but the gap between them is probably smaller than I was suggesting.

[humblebum]

Allen is such a threat but tonight he really hampered the team with all the misses on wide open threes. Those misses seem to take a lot of wind out of the sails for the Celtics. I think Ray is playing fine overall and his offense is usually a difference maker for the Celtics one way or the other. Hopefully he regains his stroke from three sooner than later because that really takes a lot of pressure off the team as a whole.

[realfung]

Rayray doesn't always have good games, but he is the sharpest shooter on the team. Pure shooter.

[armageddon]

It doesn't seem like he has 3-point range anymore, be it age, legs, ankles, whatever. I love his mid-range game and drives to the basket. And he is rebounding better. But do not let him dribble around the perimeter, do not let him start the offense, and it seems from here on out, limit the 3's.

[Gomes3PC]

My god you guys are hard to please. It's less than 10 games into the season. Jesus shot 40% last year from 3. I'd call that pretty darn impressive given the volume of 3s he takes (they're not all spot ups). He's definitely part of our Big 3. Take him away and a huge threat disappears, even more dramatically than last year. With PoZ gone that's already one 3 point threat off the court. Remove the best of our 3 point shooters (RA) and you will see teams seriously clog the paint up.

[GreenGrizz]

This thread is trying to tell us the truth we don't want to know but you must remember that he nearly got us killed against Atlanta and Cleveland in the playoffs last year. Do you guys really think we will be lucky next time? What he did last night really scares me. Do you really think we are dissing him? Red refused to trade Bird, Parrish and McHale when we were falling apart because he thought they were son-like to him.

[campybatman]

I'm beginning to think the Celts have a Big Two, not a Big Three. And I think a lot of fans and media would agree.

In my opinion, when you've three players still in their primes all still capable of having All-Star worthy seasons. You've a "Big Three"... I think it's unfair to exempt Ray Allen from that distinction on this team. What everyone knew or could assume prior to last season was that Ray, of the three players, would be the most likely to need to sacrifice more from his game in order for them all to function together as you could expect on this team. Like Pierce, Ray's use to having the ball in his hands a lot with the offense running through him primarily. He was the man in both Seattle and Milwaukee. Garnett's the more selfless one of the three because his skills enable him to be an above average distributor. Garnett's one of the best passing big men in the NBA. That isn't to say that neither Pierce nor Ray are good passers. Scorers can be play makers too. I mean Ray has shown over the years that he can fill-in at point guard in a pinch and Pierce definitely has learn to look for his teammates more often than earlier in his career. He [Paul] is still apt to turn the ball over every now and again. But, which All-Star doesn't if you've the ball in your hands a lot on offense.

But, to get back to my point. Ray Allen is so important to this team that one has to realize that he adds another clutch player that opposing defenses have to account for like Pierce. He's clutch usually as a free throw shooter in crunch time, as a three-point threat and decoy. Few players in the league move as well without the ball as Ray. Yes, he's getting older and his salary is the topic of recent debate. However, when it was the Pierce and Antoine Walker tandem in Boston. There was no Ray Allen or fellow top tier player with them. Conversely, this Celtics team indeed has a Ray Allen type player. Ray Allen himself. Again, I feel it's unfair to Ray and others should look beyond statistics and think of the impact it would be to be minus Ray from the lineup. Can you rely on either Tony Allen or House as the starting off guard? Perhaps, to a certain extent if we're talking about this change during the regular season. But, there's a reason why he's Ray Allen and they're simply Tony and Eddie House in the league.

But, I reckon it's easy to forget about Ray Allen when the post game interviews feature Paul and Kevin only. I guess I can see why considering the captain should be present and Garnett is regarded as the best overall player on the team and the emotional leader. So, you've to require him present as well. I take it Ray's the silent business partner. He doesn't need to make an appearance if he knows it'll be too crowed out there. Not to mention, he's unofficially nicknamed Jesus. Who doesn't know of the name Jesus? Besides, I'll like to believe that that doesn't bother Ray but we all know that despite his maturity and business-like demeanor. He still has an ego like all big name players.

[Truthiracy]

We should trade him for Wally Szczerbiak >_>

[MyInsatiableOne]

Hey, another thread dissing ray allen.

Yeah no ****...

I thought we had **** finished dealing with this **** last year when some dummies wanted to call it the Big 2 1/2.

Get over it people...Ray is great, we wouldn't have won last year without him, and we won't win again this year without him.

[floyd]

What, do you guys only watch the fourth quarters of games? Ray kept us in it in the first half.

[MyInsatiableOne]

What, do you guys only watch the fourth quarters of games? Ray kept us in it in the first half.

Exactly!

And he's been the only member of the Big 3 thus far who has showed up for EVERY GAME...

[underneathtoDJ]

Man, can we please stop with the Ray bashing? The guy has been the most consistent of the Big 3 this year (eventhough PP is starting to take over). Just stop complaining. PLEASE. Enjoy what we have and be happy we don't have a lineup that features the likes of Ricky Davis, Mark Blount and Wally.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Man, can we please stop with the Ray bashing? The guy has been the most consistent of the Big 3 this year (eventhough PP is starting to take over). Just stop complaining. PLEASE. Enjoy what we have and be happy we don't have a lineup that features the likes of Ricky Davis, Mark Blount and Wally.

Absolutely. The Ray haters are as unhinged and irrational as the Doc haters were pre-2008

[canman1971]

This is just stupid. Why even bother with responding with any sort of analysis at this point? After our next win, nonetheless, will come another Ray isn't that good thread.