MIN - DAL - POR - NYK

[shrink]

Here's another trade that I thought was worthy of discussion on our board. JES is a very good poster, a fan of DAL and POR.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=851249&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Dallas sends: Jason Terry, Desegana Diop, Jerry Stackhouse
Dallas gets: Stephon Marbury, Ike Diogu, Calvin Booth, Roberson

Why: They get a suitable replacement for Terry assuming no rust and gets cap space at the expense of center depth They can absorb a 3 for 4 deal.

New York sends: Stephon Marbury, Roberson, 2 mil cash
New York gets: Raef LaFrentz, Jason Collins, their own 2nd rounder back

New York saves over $2.7 mil in salary and sends 2 mil to Portland instead of 2.7 to the NBA office as tax. They get one of their own picks back and gets rid of a distraction. 2 for 2 deal.

Minnesota sends: Jason Collins, Calvin Booth
Minnesota gets: Desagana Diop, Sergio Rodriguez

Minnisota absorbs salary, but gets a young defensive center to pair with Jefferson, who incidentally, expires at the same time. They also strengthen their PG rotation a little. 2 for 2 deal.

Portland trades: Raef LaFrentz, Sergio Rodriguez, Ike Diogu, NY's 2nd round pick
Portland gets: Jason Terry, Jerry Stackhouse, 2 mil from NY to pay for Stack's guaranteed 2 mil next year (aid in buyout).

Portland strengthens their PG rotation with a Seattle native who can play well with SGs that like to have the ball in their hands a lot such as Roy. Terry/Blake can hit the open jumper off of LA posts and Roy's penetration. Terry's contract expires when he is 34 and can mentor players like Bayless along the way. 3 for 2 deal.

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=4814118

Edited to add Booth as it works better for Dallas who would only have Damp at center and works better for Minny as they need a 2 for 2 deal instead of 1 for 2. Also updated the Trade Checker (R) Link.

[4ho5ive]

I was monitoring this trade on the trade board and checking out the responses. Personally i think if we did make this move, we would have to make Cle-Min type move to get a big expiring here for Miller. Thats just too much money to be spending on a team that i dont think would get THAT much better from adding one-dimensional Diop and Rodriguez. Even though that one dimension is the one we need most.

[karch34]

I like it for us.

Not sure how well it really helps Dallas. Really assumes someone wants Marbury.

[shrink]

4ho5ive identified the crucial point ... money. I should have included the numbers as well:

Jason Collins $6,200,000
Calvin Booth $1,319,651

Sergio Rodriguez $874,000 $1,576,696 ($2,338,240)
DeSagana Diop $5,585,000 $6,031,800 $6,478,600 $6,925,400 $7,372,200

2008-09: MIN SAVES: $1.0 mil
2009-10: MIN LOSES: $7.6 mil
2010-11: MIN LOSES: $8.8 mil (includes Rodriguez qualifying offer)
2011-12: MIN LOSES: $6.9 mil
2012-13: MIN LOSES: $7.4 mil
--------------------------------------------
TOTAL MIN LOSES: $29.7 mil

We'd also probably release Kevin Ollie, since we wouldn't need a fourth PG, and probably sign Chris Richard.

[Foye]

Since I don't think Diop is gonna help us much I don't like that trade.

Diop is way overpayed and he is a decent BACKUP but not a STARTER.
So with his high salary he doesn't help us anywhere except for a bit on court. But we have drafted Love and by bringing in Diop Loves PT would probably decrease. So I don't think this trade will help us at all. Collins is at least a huge expiring. We can get better offers for Collins or let him expire.

I don't really understand why Dallas would do that trade?
Kidd and Marbury? What do they want with both of them?

[shrink]

I don't really understand why Dallas would do that trade?
Kidd and Marbury? What do they want with both of them?

Salary dump.

[C.lupus]

I don't see Diop eating Love's minutes. If anything, he would eat Gomes' and Smith's minutes. And that is a good thing. Start Diop and Jefferson, then sub in Love for Diop, switch Al over to center, then sub Diop back in for Al. All three could get 30+ minutes per game (assuming Diop played well enough to warrant that). I think it could work very nicely.

I'm not sure Diop is worth the contract he is getting but it's not terrible, either. Maybe we could move Gomes and/or Smith for an expiring. I like both of them but I think Diop would fit this team better and salary relief would help that get done.

[Krapinsky]

I stated before that I really like this trade. Diop's salary escalation kinda sucks, but that's the price of centers in this league. Diop allows us to play a three man front court rotation of Love/Jefferson/Diop. Finally we would be able to make offensive and defensive substitutions at the end of games. Smith would be the odd man out, and as a result, in my opinion he should be included in this trade instead of Booth. Might as well get his salary off the books for next year. Gomes then provides all the versatility we need. If Love or Jefferson gets hurt, he's an adequate backup at the 4. If we need to play small ball, get can play there too.

I really like picking up Sergio in this deal as well, and would hope to resign him. He'd be backup for sure, but he allows us to run and gun when it suit are advantage.

This trade would also further balance the roster, and essentially allow us to take the best players available using our draft picks next year. (but no PFs)

[deeney0]

I'd be fine with that

[shrink]

Smith would be the odd man out, and as a result, in my opinion he should be included in this trade instead of Booth. Might as well get his salary off the books for next year.

This is a very interesting idea. Booth was included in the deal as incentive to MIN (what does Mark Cuban care?), plus the poster thought he might get some play because the Mavs would be hurting for bigs. I think Smith could play next to Diop, but you're right .. there is even less of a role for Smith after this trade than there is now.

Craig Smith has positive, late pick value around the league, and I could definitely see him playing PF with Dampier or Collins for that matter. His tiny, two year deal would be a nice fit for DAL too in a salary dump. I don't want to give him up for nothing though -- I wonder if the Mavs have any small incentive left?

[JES12]

I don't really understand why Dallas would do that trade?
Kidd and Marbury? What do they want with both of them?

I can't speak for Mark Cuban, but most all Mav fans will do this because this trade is just a little better than salary releif. Dallas is in a state of transition. We are old, overpaid and a joke ever since the Kidd trade, so rebuilding might be a realistic option soon. I found out a week ago that Marbury and Cuban are very good friends making me believe that Marbury would try hard and be on his best behavior in Dallas. If he can do that, he can replace Terry very easily. If he can't, then he expires, we save money, no big deal. The only drop off in this trade is center, but IMO, Bass - Dirk - Dampier can hold the middle down until someone better than Booth gets waived. Maybe even go after Justin Williams or Nick Fazekas. Given the fact that we are in a state of transition and not sure where we are going (playoffs or rebuild), Marbury on a 1 year deal is better than Terry on a 4 year deal.

Just thought that would shed some light on Dallas POV.

PS, I want to see if any team responds to the Craig Smith notion, but I think Bass and Smith are redundant. Smith would get very little playing time in Dallas, but maybe Portland or NY would want him for some value. IMHO, I think a later, seperate deal (Clippers, Charlotte?) would get more value for Smith than any team in this trade.

[karch34]

I stated before that I really like this trade. Diop's salary escalation kinda sucks, but that's the price of centers in this league. Diop allows us to play a three man front court rotation of Love/Jefferson/Diop. Finally we would be able to make offensive and defensive substitutions at the end of games. Smith would be the odd man out, and as a result, in my opinion he should be included in this trade instead of Booth. Might as well get his salary off the books for next year. Gomes then provides all the versatility we need. If Love or Jefferson gets hurt, he's an adequate backup at the 4. If we need to play small ball, get can play there too.

I really like picking up Sergio in this deal as well, and would hope to resign him. He'd be backup for sure, but he allows us to run and gun when it suit are advantage.

This trade would also further balance the roster, and essentially allow us to take the best players available using our draft picks next year. (but no PFs)

Very good points. I would think it allows Smith to be a nice piece in subsequent deals.

[andyhop]

As I said in the original thread this is a terrible deal for us.

We spend a season and a half getting out from under our multitude of too long/too big contracts for bench quality guys and now everyone seems to want to jump back on the same bus.

Why does this supposed defensive prescence have worse defensive numbers at center than Al an Love this season? His opponents PER is 29.7 and they have a eFG% of 0.571.(Al 16.8 and 0.547 whilst allowing 10 less shots per 48.Love 19.9 and 0.500).His blocks/48 equal Al's and are less than Love's and playing on a much better defensive team he loses out on eFG% allowed as well to Al and Love so he isn't helping out much either.

Now maybe he is just off to a slow start this year or maybe he has eased off now he has a nice long deal.

He wasn't good enough at his best for it to be worthwhile for us to find out which one it is.

[Devilzsidewalk]

hmmm, it's a tough call. It's a gamble that Diop returns to the player he was last year, which was a pretty good defensive presence, on both NJ and Dallas.

Also, is his salary worth 25 mpg? Or perhaps a better question, will the coach even play him 25 mpg?
Collins is supposedly healthy, but has yet to play, and is similar to Diop in many respects; no offense, mediocre shot blocker, good post defender. Madsen is cut from that cloth too, that's 0 for 2. Mad Dog even had a good game against Portland, but still couldn't get burn in the 2nd half or against GS.

Diop probably get like 12 mpg here.

[karch34]

hmmm, it's a tough call. It's a gamble that Diop returns to the player he was last year, which was a pretty good defensive presence, on both NJ and Dallas.

Also, is his salary worth 25 mpg? Or perhaps a better question, will the coach even play him 25 mpg?
Collins is supposedly healthy, but has yet to play, and is similar to Diop in many respects; no offense, mediocre shot blocker, good post defender. Madsen is cut from that cloth too, that's 0 for 2. Mad Dog even had a good game against Portland, but still couldn't get burn in the 2nd half or against GS.

Diop probably get like 12 mpg here.

I think if we saw a little more Collins and MadDog at C, we might not be looking so favorably at the trade. Not saying they're great options, but Robson had a great article on how we're performing with certain combinations and not using Gomes and Smith at PF seemed to be our most successfu. I guess that speaks volumes about Wittman as well.

[revprodeji]

I would do it. I am a fan of both players. I think Diop would be almost a bEst-case scenario for the back up 5 spot. He is also a good character guy. Sergio is a good point prospect.

I say do it.

[andyhop]

I would do it. I am a fan of both players. I think Diop would be almost a bEst-case scenario for the back up 5 spot. He is also a good character guy. Sergio is a good point prospect.

I say do it.

There just isn't a good reason for a rebuilding team like us to take on a bench guy getting the full MLE for 5 more years, that money can be spent far better on trying to acquire some starter's.

[GopherIt!]

I don't like it either. We need to address the starting line up before we add salary for another rotation player. Hopefully Collins can give us a few minutes in the middle now that he's healthy.