Move Rondo to the second unit?

[Celtsfan1980]

I had read this suggestion on another Celtics board, and am curious about what people thought here. Rondo was an important part of the team last season. The Celtics were behind by I think 13 points to Cleveland in game 5 when Rondo hit the two 3-pointers. Those shots may have saved the Celtics' season. He played well in all 3 home Championship games and very well in 2 of them, and obviously played very well in many other games in the regular season and playoffs. They may not have won a Championship if he had been a reserve, but this year is looking a little different early on. If House started and Rondo played with the second unit, this would change the team a bit. Obviously you'd have better spacing with the starting unit. Rondo would be able to run a lot more if he had Pruitt, Tony Allen, Powe, and Davis as his regular teammates. Pierce would be taking the ball up frequently rather than House, and the offense would be run through Pierce and Garnett more than anyone else and run by Rondo and maybe Pruitt for the second unit. Rondo could still get 20+ minutes. It would cater to Rondo's strengths and to House's strengths as well. If this happened, there's a chance Rondo would lose confidence but there's also a chance he plays the best basketball of his career. What do you think?

[DorfonCeltics]

Rondo is by far our best point guard even though he hasn't always played like it this year. You always start your best player at the position regardless of what other gimmicks you might be able to produce. Sending Rondo to the bench is NOT the answer.

[Kefa461]

I had read this suggestion on another Celtics board, and am curious about what people thought here. Rondo was an important part of the team last season. The Celtics were behind by I think 13 points to Cleveland in game 5 when Rondo hit the two 3-pointers. Those shots may have saved the Celtics' season. He played well in all 3 home Championship games and very well in 2 of them, and obviously played very well in many other games in the regular season and playoffs. They may not have won a Championship if he had been a reserve, but this year is looking a little different early on. If House started and Rondo played with the second unit, this would change the team a bit. Obviously you'd have better spacing with the starting unit. Rondo would be able to run a lot more if he had Pruitt, Tony Allen, Powe, and Davis as his regular teammates. Pierce would be taking the ball up frequently rather than House, and the offense would be run through Pierce and Garnett more than anyone else and run by Rondo and maybe Pruitt for the second unit. Rondo could still get 20+ minutes. It would cater to Rondo's strengths and to House's strengths as well. If this happened, there's a chance Rondo would lose confidence but there's also a chance he plays the best basketball of his career. What do you think?

I think not.....

[Celtsfan1980]

Rondo is by far our best point guard even though he hasn't always played like it this year. You always start your best player at the position regardless of what other gimmicks you might be able to produce. Sending Rondo to the bench is NOT the answer.

Rondo's my favorite Celtic so I do think highly of his skills. I don't think he was meant to play a half-court offense, so that's my reasoning. I haven't watched much of the Lakers, but my understanding is that their second unit does do a lot of running. I think Boston has the ability to do the same. At least they should play him with the second unit once in a while. Maybe they won't do it regularly but at least try it out to see how well they play.

[underneathtoDJ]

You should watch last night's game for all the proof you need as to why this is a bad idea. Rondo needs to be out there playing more minutes than any other PG/quasi-PG we have on the team.

[sully00]

I don't think Rondo is the problem, KG not hitting his jump shot, and we don't have any other option besides Eddie to stretch the defense is the issue at this point. You also have to factor in what difference maker Rondo is defensively.

That said our second unit looks like garbage with Eddie on the ball but that seems to be pretty patched up with Pierce in with that unit.

[Celtsfan1980]

You should watch last night's game for all the proof you need as to why this is a bad idea. Rondo needs to be out there playing more minutes than any other PG/quasi-PG we have on the team.

To be fair, Pruitt hasn't been given much of an opportunity yet.

[Pogue Mahone]

While I disagree with taking Rondo out of the starting unit, I would like to see him play more minutes with the 2nd unit. One of the issues for me is that Rondo has been extremely turnover prone so far. I am sure each of us have are own ideas as to why that may be.

Many people know that players struggle with the burden of additional possessions but there are quite a few players who have equally uneven performance when they are not touching the ball as much as they are accustomed. That is to say, players, from year to year, over their career (especially so in their prime), tend to fall into a comfort zone of usage levels.

For Rondo, his possession used metrics are down from last year. Rondo has been turning down shots, sure, and while that is most certainly part of it, think about that in and of it's self. Part of a player's ability to perform efficiently, both in shooting and in taking care of the ball, is playing to his individual strengths.

Now, I am not saying anyone is wrong or anyone is right (is that good enough for you whiners who are self-appointed thought-police) but Rondo has not been put into positions in which he has felt comfortable. Now, perhaps this is Doc's master plan. Maybe the game plan is to force and expedite the development of Rondo's off-the-ball game here, during real games, where the outcomes aren't as important as they would be if they happened in May or June.

To state it succinctly, Rondo, as a playmaking, floor general-type PG, has seen his possessions fall off the table (down to his rookie season's levels, actually.) Anecdotally speaking, the more he has the ball, the more open shots he creates for teammates in their preferred spots. He also can get virtually anywhere he wants on the floor so it's not that he can't get "his" shots when he wants them.

Now, by having other players creating, especially in the halfcourt, theoretically, at least, will help expand their games, as well. That assumption leads me to believe it is game planned and not a matter of course of reacting to what the defense gives you. I think we will continue to see uneven performance from Rajon as he continues to evolve and develop.

The reason I would like to see Rondo more on the 2nd unit is that I think, at some point, forcing a lesser established player to consistently play to his weaknesses could greatly affect his confidence levels. IOW, throw the dog a bone every once in a while if you want to reinforce a certain behavior.

[campybatman]

If House started and Rondo played with the second unit, this would change the team a bit. Obviously you'd have better spacing with the starting unit. Rondo would be able to run a lot more if he had Pruitt, Tony Allen, Powe, and Davis as his regular teammates. Pierce would be taking the ball up frequently rather than House, and the offense would be run through Pierce and Garnett more than anyone else and run by Rondo and maybe Pruitt for the second unit.

Pierce is a capable play maker but shouldn't have the ball in his hands a lot if you don't want him to create a lot of turnovers. I think Pierce is a better passer in the half court offense. Still, I prefer if Pierce didn't have to bring the ball up. If he's bringing the ball up, that's some time off the shot clock that he'll have to then turn around and set up to receive the ball and score. You don't want to have a offense where it's an one man or two men show. A real point guard get everyone involved and is supposed to make thing easier for everyone in the offense so they won't be asked to do more of what they aren't used to doing.

The point guard and center are the two most important positions on a basketball team, in my opinion. You should always start your best options at those two positions. In this case, that would be Rondo and Perkins. Something else you've to keep in mind, point guards like Paul and Deron Williams have the ball in their hands quite a bit. So, their job is to initiate the offense and they're both fully capable players of scoring as well. Rondo plays on a team where he won't have the ball in his hands as much with Pierce and Garnett as passer too. Conversely, Rondo isn't likewise a dominant scoring threat as the two aforementioned point guards because of his lack of a consistent perimeter game to begin with. Him leading the second unit would be different but one that could struggle. Because the role players on the Celtics aren't consistent enough on offense that Rondo now becomes the top threat to score and opposing defenses will simply dare him to shoot from outside and back off to concentrate on defending his teammates.

[Rocky5000]

Rondo needs shooters to bail him out. I think on that second unit, the only shooter he'd have would be which ever one of the big 3 stays on, and maybe Big Baby if he's shooting like last night. One thing I noticed last year is that Rondo played the best offensively, when he played with Posey, KG, Paul, and Ray. That's 4 shooters, and that made it so that even if teams were sagging off from him, he could still create and score. I'm not sure if a Tony, Powe, and Davis are any more uptempo than the starting 5 either. Tony is definitely an uptempo player, but Leon and Davis aren't really the type of guys that thrive under a fast paced system. POB otoh, actually knows how to play at a higher pace, from his time in GS, so maybe a faster 2nd unit would mean more time for him.

I think we'll see the point guard position stabilize once Doc expands his rotation to include Pruitt, which is supposedly coming in the near future. When Rondo is not effective, we can just throw Pruitt in. Don't forget the games he had in the preseason 14 pts-7 assists- 4rebounds in 1 game and 11 pts-12 reb-7 assists playing big minutes with the big 3. I think our offense looked significantly more effective with Pruitt in the game, and if that is our weakness this year, he should get some time.

[BillessuR6]

I just want him to be aggressive on offense. He needs to attack all the time and take the jumper when open. Yesterday, he should have taken 20 not 2...he can`t get better at it if he doesn`t use it in games...

[ParticleMan]

4 words:

If it ain't broke...

[GuyClinch]

Rondo actually hit a jumper last night - so I suppose it was good for him. Still Rondo's poor shooting performance has given teams ways to defend our starting unit. So I think he is part of the problem.

Despite the 10-2 record I think the C's are playing too many poor teams close - and the two reasons cited for this are..

The poor bench play and the teams offensive slippage. While our bench play hasn't been stellar lost in that is that our starting unit isn't blowing other starting units out of the water. This is the big change from last year. It's why as Jammer pointed out we have so many players with a lower net PER.

Instead of our bench coming in free and easy with our team up a ton of points they come into a tight situation and with four bench guys at once its not that easy. I don't see any easy solution to improving out starting lineup - other then getting Rondo going. At this point his poor play is making me something of a Pruitt fan boy.

I find myself constantly wondering if he could step in and work better with the starting unit. We of course had this concern last year but it seems its taken the league a whole year to come up with "Celtic Rules" to deal with us.

They have those rules now - and it's hurting our entire team. Frankly I was kinda shocked teams like the Lakers didn't catch on sooner.. So do I want him moved to the second unit? Probably not - the lack of shooting on that unit is even more troublesome for Rondo then with the starters.

But I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Pruitt log some back up PG time and moving House over to the 2 guard to get some more offense on the floor. If Pruitt thrived he would of course eat into Rondo's minutes at the 1 spot and get a chance to play with the big boys.

As for the naysayers who think people are complaining about nothing - I truly believe point differential is more important then record. I'd rather have the team thats 8-2 that's winning by 20+ points each night then a 9-1 team that's eeking out OT victories.

Pete

[canman1971]

4 words:

If it ain't broke...

Even less, two words:

TEN-TWO

[celticfan42487]

You want Rondo on the second unit for his offensive skills?

[Slartibartfast]

Pogue,
I think the primary reason Rondo's usage is down is because Doc is making a more concerted effort to get Ray Allen involved with the starting unit. Last year he tried this with 2nd unit to little avail. This year Pierce is running most of the action with 2nd unit while Ray takes on the brunt of the ball-handling for the starters at least in the first 3 quarters.

I think this is wrong-headed. I think Ray should have more of a greenlight to shoot, a la Eddie House, but less freedom to dribble the ball as he pleases.

[GreenGrizz]

I don't know. We could try it. We saw Pruitt play well in the preseason when he started.

[GuyClinch]

Yeah. I wouldn't mind Pruitt getting some burn.

[pERKiSaBEAST]

I don't think it will make much difference whether Rondo is starting or not.

Him and Eddie/Tony bring different strength's and weaknesses but pretty much cancel each other out.

But it would be a shot to Rondo's confidence if he's takin out of the starting lineup, for this reason i say just keep him as a starter atleast for now, he hasn't been that bad, although definetly needs to improve and take more shots when he drives to the hoop.

I don't have much confidence in pruitt.

I usually champion the young guys like I did with Leon on other sports sites since his rookie year, but with pruitt I don't know if will make it in the nba, bad decision making, too many turnovers.

[gpguy25]

your an idiot lets move you to the special bus