Al Jefferson was terrible last night

[sam_I_am]

I probably go overboard in criticizing Al Jefferson and I am about to do it again. I just can't help it. However, last night he proved every doubt I have about him as a player to be legitimate.

He is a very good player on a very bad team. But what separates him from the truly great up and coming young big men like Dwight Howard is that he just doesn't do enough to help his team win. He can put up great numbers and lose the game in the process. And last night was a perfect example.

In the 3rd quarter when it was still a game there was a play that simply cannot be ignored. Remember, this was a road game back to back for the Celtics and the game was still winnable for Minnesota early in the 3rd. Leon Powe tips a ball 5-6 times before grabbing the rebound. Al just stood there. Powe passes out of post and the ball gets move around until Rondo gives it back to him in the post. Powe took a quick 2 step to the basket and laid it in. Jefferson was right there and did absolutely nothing to stop him. To call it pathetic is an understatement.

Before we traded Al for Garnett I used to make an obnoxious remark about how I'd rather have 2 second round picks than Al at 10 million a year meaning that I thought Gomes and Powe were both better players. Obviously, that is not true but maybe I was underestimating Powe. Maybe at 6-8 and 2 surgically repaired knees he is an unstoppable force 4 feet from the basket. But more realistically, Al is still a joke as a defender and would quite possibly be the biggest defensively liability in the NBA if he didn't rebound as well as he does. And that is why Pierce/Wally/Al Jefferson/Rondo was a joke of a team. How can a player as good as Pierce be on an 18 win team next to a great big man? Because the big man just isn't even close to ever being great.

[BillessuR6]

Al is the least of a problem in Minny...

[threrf23]

Who didn't see this coming. If you were to nitpick like this for all players, KG would suck too.

Minny is clearly a MUCH better defensive team with Al on the floor this year, than with him on the bench.

http://www.82games.com/0809/08MIN13.HTM#onoff

His steals blocks and foul efficiency are solid, he's passing the ball better than ever, he's seventh in the league in turnover percentage, right up there with Peja Stojakovic, his FT% is higher than ever, and he's shown more consistency on his jump shot.

I'd say he's made the jump to a top 10-15 player by this point, or at least fairly close. You criticize him for losing a rebound to a good rebounder who had to exert a ton of effort to grab the rebound, and you criticize him for allowing a seemingly easy basket to Leon Powe (and in fairness I don't recall in particular either play since we dominated from the bat in the 3rd quarter to the point where I lost interest). In any event, you fail to realize that Powe makes a living drawing ticky tack fouls and shooting better from the foul line than he does near the basket. From your description, its sounds as if Al was displaying his maturity on the defensive end.

[ParticleMan]

LOL. we should have started an over/under on the time it would take for sam to start an anti-Big Al thread. frankly, i'm surprised he waited until after the game.

[celticfan42487]

Big AL proved that he's not an elite player.

But by the same token people will just now say that Pierce is worthy of being one and even most will say he's not.

I would of been nervous building around Big AL and his ankles... but most importantly because you know when you watch him. He's an all-star type... but he's the Ray Allen of all-stars. You need a better player then him WITH him in order to start winning. But he's defentily too good to just let him go and hope you can find that better player somehow.

If AL had althletisim he'd be as good as anyone.

[GuyClinch]

Al isn't really that great a player but let's not get carried away. I don't think he can win in that situation. Do you think they would be winning with Powe at C or BBD? I doubt it.

I think Al is firmly in the catergory of a "B" player. I'd compare him to Zach Randolph a beast of a scorer and rebounder who is overmatched defensively and not known as a hustle player. Al though seems like a nice enough guy - which is a plus.

Of course Paul wasn't going to win alot with him - as one A player and one B player just isn't enough in this league.

[GuyClinch]

He's an all-star type... but he's the Ray Allen of all-stars

I think you have forgotten just how good Ray Allen was..

[celtics543]

We're really going to blame Al for not being able to win in Minny right now? KG couldn't win there either the year before he was traded. It's not like there's a lot of help out there. Put anyone on a team where the other players are Ryan Gomes, Randy Foye, Corey Brewer, Craig Smith, Sebastian Telfair, Mike Miller, etc. and no one is going to bring that group to the playoffs.

I liken what Al is going through right now to what Paul Pierce went through after we traded Antoine, if the Celtics were going to win games, he was going to have to put everyone on his back. Let's not forget that Al is still only 23 years old and is still getting better. If you put even one other all star around him, then I think we'd get a fair assessment of how good he actually is.

[Gomes3PC]

Jefferson needs a slasher small man (PG/SG/SF) who can put in 20+ per night to be competitive in Minnesota. Right now Foye is the only one who looks remotely like he could become that on the Wolves. Almost every top big man has a slashing guard to complement him. KG was one of the few who did not and was still great. It's totally unfair to say he is not a great player; Al is one of the 3-4 best Cs in the NBA in my judgment. He's just surrounded by a terrible supporting cast with a GM who seems to have no direction.

Is he a great defensive player? No, but he is capable at this point, enough so that his team is much better defensively with him on the court than without. I wouldn't confuse him with KG or Camby down there but he can body his guy up. He gobbles up rebounds, scores at great efficiency, and is a hard worker. Plus, the kid is TWENTY THREE! He's got another 4-5 years before he reaches his peak years (27-30).

[sam_I_am]

Who didn't see this coming. If you were to nitpick like this for all players, KG would suck too.


You criticize him for losing a rebound to a good rebounder who had to exert a ton of effort to grab the rebound, and you criticize him for allowing a seemingly easy basket to Leon Powe (and in fairness I don't recall in particular either play since we dominated from the bat in the 3rd quarter to the point where I lost interest). In any event, you fail to realize that Powe makes a living drawing ticky tack fouls and shooting better from the foul line than he does near the basket. From your description, its sounds as if Al was displaying his maturity on the defensive end.

If you didn't see the play then you really can't say I am nitpicking or failing to realize anything. Powe did work hard for the rebound. Jefferson stood there and didn't even try. Then when Powe got the ball back Jefferson didn't even try to defend. I personally have never seen Garnett take and entire play off like that on defense.

I have seen immature defenders get beat or draw unnecessary fouls. But the total lack of effort defensively against the defending champs and against your former team in a back to back situation is mind boggling.

All you have to do is watch the box scores of the opposition to Minny on a daily basis like I do to see the picture. At the end of the day, as impressive as it is to be a double double guy... the goal is still to outscore the opposition and if you give up 20 pts on 10 shots and take 20 shots to get 20 pts yourself...... then you are losing.

[Basti]

Al is the least of a problem in Minny...

[Basti]

Who didn't see this coming. If you were to nitpick like this for all players, KG would suck too.


You criticize him for losing a rebound to a good rebounder who had to exert a ton of effort to grab the rebound, and you criticize him for allowing a seemingly easy basket to Leon Powe (and in fairness I don't recall in particular either play since we dominated from the bat in the 3rd quarter to the point where I lost interest). In any event, you fail to realize that Powe makes a living drawing ticky tack fouls and shooting better from the foul line than he does near the basket. From your description, its sounds as if Al was displaying his maturity on the defensive end.

If you didn't see the play then you really can't say I am nitpicking or failing to realize anything. Powe did work hard for the rebound. Jefferson stood there and didn't even try. Then when Powe got the ball back Jefferson didn't even try to defend. I personally have never seen Garnett take and entire play off like that on defense.

I have seen immature defenders get beat or draw unnecessary fouls. But the total lack of effort defensively against the defending champs and against your former team in a back to back situation is mind boggling.

All you have to do is watch the box scores of the opposition to Minny on a daily basis like I do to see the picture. At the end of the day, as impressive as it is to be a double double guy... the goal is still to outscore the opposition and if you give up 20 pts on 10 shots and take 20 shots to get 20 pts yourself...... then you are losing.

the way we've played this season it doesn't make me wonder why it is like this. Big Al has noone to help him out. there was one play last night when Big Al faced a triple team and there was no shooter on Big Al's side whom he could have passed to. Al is simply exhausted because he has to carry our whole team offensively. I mean Mike Miller is taking 7 shots per game and Randy Foye couldn't hit a shot to save his life right now and these two guys were said to be our #2 and #3 options on offense.

don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want any of my players to be looking at his opponent to score while doing nothing but a) Al is the least problem for us and b) you picked one scenario where he didn't do it all. it's not like he does it every game. he gave it all vs Oden earlier in the season when we had a close game. Oden has a much better body and the athleticism advantage and yet Al gives 100% to defend him. it was just a bad example you showcased.

[GonzoLays]

LOL. we should have started an over/under on the time it would take for sam to start an anti-Big Al thread. frankly, i'm surprised he waited until after the game.

I believe he said it best when he started off with, " I probably go overboard in criticizing Al Jefferson." Ya, think? Nooooo

You could put Dwight Freaking Howard on that team and they would still have two wins. But let me guess, with Howard, they would have eight wins, because you know, marginally talented young teams win all the time in the NBA.

[sam_I_am]

LOL. we should have started an over/under on the time it would take for sam to start an anti-Big Al thread. frankly, i'm surprised he waited until after the game.

I believe he said it best when he started off with, " I probably go overboard in criticizing Al Jefferson." Ya, think? Nooooo

You could put Dwight Freaking Howard on that team and they would still have two wins. But let me guess, with Howard, they would have eight wins, because you know, marginally talented young teams win all the time in the NBA.

You could put Howard on that team and they might lose a lot of games. But at least they would have a real franchise player to build around and a guy who is going to be the backbone of any defense he plays on for a decade. Jefferson is a talent for sure, at least at the offensive end. As a 6th man off the bench - like Lamar Odom - he could be special. But savior of a franchise? Hell no.

[ParticleMan]

LOL. we should have started an over/under on the time it would take for sam to start an anti-Big Al thread. frankly, i'm surprised he waited until after the game.

I believe he said it best when he started off with, " I probably go overboard in criticizing Al Jefferson." Ya, think? Nooooo

You could put Dwight Freaking Howard on that team and they would still have two wins. But let me guess, with Howard, they would have eight wins, because you know, marginally talented young teams win all the time in the NBA.

You could put Howard on that team and they might lose a lot of games. But at least they would have a real franchise player to build around and a guy who is going to be the backbone of any defense he plays on for a decade. Jefferson is a talent for sure, at least at the offensive end. As a 6th man off the bench - like Lamar Odom - he could be special. But savior of a franchise? Hell no.

wtf?!? so if someone isn't a franchise type player like Dwight Howard, they should be a 6th man?

please stop.

nobody (well nobody sane) thinks Big Al is as good as DH. he's not a franchise centerpiece in that sense. but does that make him a 6th man?? um, no. Pierce isn't a franchise centerpiece either. Does that mean he should come off the bench?

[AlCelticFan]

Jefferson's +/- is +16.2 and his production is +7.4 !!! (82games.com)

I don't think he is as bad as you are making him out to be. If he was then one of those numbers would not be so high.

[Pogue Mahone]

The Jefferson is pre-alcoholic Vin Baker. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, either. Vin couldn't win until he was surrounded by multiple all-stars and a HoF PG. We'll see how The Jefferson does in the future and I wish him success. It doesn't change that fact that he is vastly overvalued, imo.

I agree with Sam I Am, inasmuch that The Jefferson would be absolutely fantastic as a 20-25 mpg PF/C off the bench. In an ideal world, he would have been playing that role all along, imo. His tendency to loaf is a major concern to me and always has been.

[MyInsatiableOne]

Al isn't really that great a player but let's not get carried away. I don't think he can win in that situation. Do you think they would be winning with Powe at C or BBD? I doubt it.

I think Al is firmly in the catergory of a "B" player. I'd compare him to Zach Randolph a beast of a scorer and rebounder who is overmatched defensively and not known as a hustle player. Al though seems like a nice enough guy - which is a plus.

Of course Paul wasn't going to win alot with him - as one A player and one B player just isn't enough in this league.

Well said. I always liked Al but how can anyone say with a straight face that Minny got the better end of that trade (which many people have said over the last year??) Even when his offense is off, KG rebounds, defends, and hustles with the best of them. Al, not so much...and I like Al, don't get me wrong. But as Pete says, definitely a second-tier guy.

He's an all-star type... but he's the Ray Allen of all-stars

I think you have forgotten just how good Ray Allen is..

Fixed. And to the original poster of this quote that Pete answered, honestly, if you never saw Ray pre-Celtics, then don't be stupid enough to make flat-out wrong statements like this...

[kingly222]

Just got back from Minny and LOL at this thread. Al definately played with little to no energy in that game. When asked about this, he said Boston swarming defense gave him trouble and he had a hard time trying to figure out the scheme. Then when asked if there was any trash talking going on he said KG didnt say a word to him, and if he had, he would have hit him b/c of how he was feeling. How you were feeling?? " YEA I HAVE A DEEP THIGH BRUISE" ..(happened in the PHILLY Game) Well it makes sense why it you had no lift and werent moving so well. But Al beig Al neve considered this an excuse and gave all the credit to Boston's defense

Congrats on the win and I heard some funny stories coming out of the Boston Camp. If anyone wants to know just ask and Ill post

[threrf23]

Congrats on the win and I heard some funny stories coming out of the Boston Camp. If anyone wants to know just ask and Ill post

Be our guest...you have credibility.