Official Countdown to Firing"NoLowPostOffense"Grunfeld

[WizarDynasty]

Knicks win with only 7 players shoot 45 percent from three point range. Fire Ernie for signing the worse perimeter defenders in the league..not one can block a shot on the perimeter.

[Silvie Lysandra]

Defense wins championships and Ernie Grunfield's tenure in both Milwaukee and here have been conducted in total ignorance of that fundamental fact. (granted, he should have a ring - a healthy Ewing in the 99 finals probably beats SA that year)

The fact is, Grunfield's moves look good taken individually. Stack for Jamison. Great. Kwame for Butler. Amazing. Deshawn on the cheap. Daniels who was the best backup PG in the NBA at the time. Blatche who will stick in the NBA in the 2nd. Young who has all-star potential in the middle of the 16th.

But that's not how you win a championship - you win a championship by assembling the right mix of personnel, from stars to role-players to coachses.

Why wasn't it apparent that Jamison and Butler were a horrible combination in the frontcourt defensively? Why didn't he realize that Thomas was an average-to-mediocre center asking for a big long-term contract? Why did he not realize that Jamison did not represent real "leadership" in that he failed to show it on the defensive end, in terms of shot selection, and only improved those attributes in a contract year? Why didn't the light click on in the last few years to make him say "this team is never going to contend for a championship? Or even a ECF berth?" Why did he not see the fundamental flaws in the way the team was constructed - low-efficiency chuckers with mediocre to bad defense, held together by an elite C who wasn't getting enough minutes and with a bench that has consistently been terrlble?

[BasicBall]

Ernie is the worse most overrated GM in the league....Ed Tapscott is a joke! The sooner you guys get rid of Ernie the better off your team will be!

[fishercob]

Ernie is the worse most overrated GM in the league....Ed Tapscott is a joke! The sooner you guys get rid of Ernie the better off your team will be!

Yeah, the Bucks and Knicks have gone on to greatness since he left town.

[Wizards2Lottery]

If Ernie can find a guy who can make us even a middle of the pack defense, we should be one of the elite teams in the laegue. There is way too much talent and athleticism on this team to eat the 40 win cake every year.

[WizarDynasty]

no coach is going to take the four starters and make them even an average defensive team. Etan=horrible=jamison=horrible=caron=close to horrible=d.s.-average to horrible=a.d.=horrible.

None of these 5 starters has any defensive talent what so ever. Not one these "starters" has great wingspan relative to their position..and not one of these players have great lateral acceleration to stop dribble penetration relative to their position. No coach will make these five starters even close to the league average on defense.

We have three bench players--who are pretty much rookies-mcgee,young, and blatche=that have defensive talent. Everyone else is a waste. NO coach is going to turn these three bench players into a good defensive team.
Grunfeld has shown no ability to bring in free agents with defensive talent= equal great wingspan and lateral acceleration relative to their position.
A coach would have nothing to work with and can't rely on ernie ability to bring in defensive talent on the perimeter.
The problem with this team rest between Ernie two ears..his brain...has poor ability to judge defensive perimeter talent..plain and simple..and there is no cure for that.

[Zerocious]

i'll be sure to recommend you to abe when eg gets the boot, WD, you seem to have all the answers. i see your point though, i think most of us see your point, but who is your choice for the next GM, capable of calculating stuture vs wingspan formula's

[yungal07]

WD's championship winning lineup:

Livingston
Hughes
Gay
Kirilenko
Chandler

because they have long wingspans and lateral acceleration.

[WizarDynasty]

WD's championship winning lineup:

Livingston
Hughes
Gay
Kirilenko
Chandler

because they have long wingspans and lateral acceleration.

livingston and hughes have poor lateral acceleration--for either sg or pg..doesn't matter which position they play but they both have good wingspan to play either position. Big no no for lateral acceleration...they let guards penetrate every play.

gay is decent..-7'1 wingspan for sf..decent lateral acceleration.

kirlenko has no power at the powerforward spot and he doesn't have 7'4 wingspan to man the powerforward position.--small forward..yes for both.

Chandler--no power...but he does have the 7'6 wingspan need to play center. Remember power is more important than lateral acceleration for powerforwards and centers.

[WashWiz54]

no coach is going to take the four starters and make them even an average defensive team. Etan=horrible=jamison=horrible=caron=close to horrible=d.s.-average to horrible=a.d.=horrible.

None of these 5 starters has any defensive talent what so ever. Not one these "starters" has great wingspan relative to their position..and not one of these players have great lateral acceleration to stop dribble penetration relative to their position. No coach will make these five starters even close to the league average on defense.

We have three bench players--who are pretty much rookies-mcgee,young, and blatche=that have defensive talent. Everyone else is a waste. NO coach is going to turn these three bench players into a good defensive team.
Grunfeld has shown no ability to bring in free agents with defensive talent= equal great wingspan and lateral acceleration relative to their position.
A coach would have nothing to work with and can't rely on ernie ability to bring in defensive talent on the perimeter.
The problem with this team rest between Ernie two ears..his brain...has poor ability to judge defensive perimeter talent..plain and simple..and there is no cure for that.

I've never seen somebody post the same thing over and over in so many different words. Yes, we get it you love the lateral quickness, long wingspan, and blocking on the perimeter; you've said it in all of your posts!

Now, Erinie I believe has job security and like all other GM's will be evaluated at the end of the season. He's done well with a whole lot more positive moves than negative ones. Is the team ready to contend for a championship? No, not at the moment but we're not too far away. A tweak here, a block on the perimeter there, and boom! We might be in the NBA Finals.

Firing Ernie would be a terrible move for the Wizard franchise and its future.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

WD's championship winning lineup:

Livingston
Hughes
Gay
Kirilenko
Chandler

because they have long wingspans and lateral acceleration.

They must not be

[closg00]

While Eddie is the fall-guy for the Wizards woes (mostly deserved), why should Ernie escape criticism and evaluation. The deals he gave Gilbert and Antawn were jaw-dropping around the league, and his prediliction for drafting 7-footers may have finally paid-off, drafting Pech, Vereemenko, & PJR, have left us soft and defenseless. As Wilbon said yesterday.

"All the teams in the East improved their rosters over the summer; the Wizards did not. That's Eddie Jordan's fault? No. That's Ernie Grunfeld's fault."

[mhd]

WIlbon is a moron. WHy doesn't he mention the fact that Abe won't pay the luxary tax. What else did he want us to do? We didn't have max salary space unless we renounced both Arenas and Jamison. Brand wasn't coming here with only Butler on the team. Then you end up signing Corey Maggette like players to 5 years, 50 million dollar deals like GSW did. I'd rather have resigned Jamison then lose him for nothing.

[newslowsad]

Ernie has made awful decisions, but I blame the Arenas deal solely on Abe.

[LyricalRico]

WIlbon is a moron. WHy doesn't he mention the fact that Abe won't pay the luxary tax. What else did he want us to do? We didn't have max salary space unless we renounced both Arenas and Jamison. Brand wasn't coming here with only Butler on the team. Then you end up signing Corey Maggette like players to 5 years, 50 million dollar deals like GSW did. I'd rather have resigned Jamison then lose him for nothing.

Guys like nate and Dat have repeatedly broken down the reasons why the Arenas and Jamison signings had to happen this past summer. At that moment in time, those were the correct decisions. But don't get me wrong - Grunfeld absolutely deserves to be held accountable. Anybody who is paid to do a job should be held accountable.

As far as negatives, a couple readily come to mind. He added an unnecessary year on Songaila's deal and he negotiated against himself for Stevenson in terms of both salary and length of contract. But when compared to deals like $10M per year for guys like Dampier and Curry, those aren't unforgiveable sins. Even the Etan/AD deals aren't as bad as some others out there.

His biggest non-move was not trading Jamison when his previous contract was about to expire. But how much of that is really on him? Most of us here acknowledge the relationship between Abe and Jamison. If Jamison was off limits from an ownership perspective, can you really put that on the GM? I don't.

So if the biggest issues you have with a guy after 5-6 years are that he signed two sub-MLE deals for a year longer than he should have and that he obeyed a mandate from his owner, I'd say that he's done at least a fairly decent job. Then when you consider that he did not make the mistake of paying Larry Hughes or Jared Jeffries and he turned the KFB into Caron Butler, I would say that he's done more good than bad.

Does EG have work to do? Absolutely. The next 10 months will be critical for this team's future. He has to make wise moves at the upcoming trade deadline, the upcoming draft, and the upcoming free agency period. And somewhere in between all of that he has to find the right head man to lead this team into the next decade. But based on what I've seen him do here in DC and what his track record says, I'm willing to stick with him for a while longer.

[mhd]

WIlbon is a moron. WHy doesn't he mention the fact that Abe won't pay the luxary tax. What else did he want us to do? We didn't have max salary space unless we renounced both Arenas and Jamison. Brand wasn't coming here with only Butler on the team. Then you end up signing Corey Maggette like players to 5 years, 50 million dollar deals like GSW did. I'd rather have resigned Jamison then lose him for nothing.

Guys like nate and Dat have repeatedly broken down the reasons why the Arenas and Jamison signings had to happen this past summer. At that moment in time, those were the correct decisions. But don't get me wrong - Grunfeld absolutely deserves to be held accountable. Anybody who is paid to do a job should be held accountable.

As far as negatives, a couple readily come to mind. He added an unnecessary year on Songaila's deal and he negotiated against himself for Stevenson in terms of both salary and length of contract. But when compared to deals like $10M per year for guys like Dampier and Curry, those aren't unforgiveable sins. Even the Etan/AD deals aren't as bad as some others out there.

His biggest non-move was not trading Jamison when his previous contract was about to expire. But how much of that is really on him? Most of us here acknowledge the relationship between Abe and Jamison. If Jamison was off limits from an ownership perspective, can you really put that on the GM? I don't.

So if the biggest issues you have with a guy after 5-6 years are that he signed two sub-MLE deals for a year longer than he should have and that he obeyed a mandate from his owner, I'd say that he's done at least a fairly decent job. Then when you consider that he did not make the mistake of paying Larry Hughes or Jared Jeffries and he turned the KFB into Caron Butler, I would say that he's done more good than bad.

Does EG have work to do? Absolutely. The next 10 months will be critical for this team's future. He has to make wise moves at the upcoming trade deadline, the upcoming draft, and the upcoming free agency period. And somewhere in between all of that he has to find the right head man to lead this team into the next decade. But based on what I've seen him do here in DC and what his track record says, I'm willing to stick with him for a while longer.

I posted this on another board. This is why I'm a big EG fan:

Eddie didn't do a darn thing. The East was in shambles when he arrived. The Wizards were making the playoffs by default. The Bobcats, Hawks, Magic, Bucks, Celtics, 76ers, and Knicks were flat out awful during the majority of his time here.

You want to know why Eddie was fired? He's a stupid coach with respect to rotations and minutes. Who plays Arenas 40+ a game when he gets back from injury like he did to start the year last year? What about playing Butler 40 minutes against the Lakers the first game he came back last year (which caused him to miss 12 more afterwards)? What about refusing to play his best defender and center in Brendan Haywood for YEARS in favor of his desired small-ball like Etan Thomas, Michael Ruffin, and Darius Songaila? Brendan Haywood of last year was not better than then the Haywood of the previous five save for FT shooting. Even with no Etan, Haywood only played 28 mpg. He should have played 35 mpg last year. Instead, Jordan constantly went to Songaila for no logical reason, resulting with losses in the fourth quarter.

What about only playing Nick Young 17 minutes against the Knicks the other night despite scoring 17 points? Young is the 3rd best player on the team right now. He's young and should be getting consistent 32-35 mpg to develop. Instead, Jordan went to Deshawn Stevenson who got 39 minutes and proceeded to shoot 2-10 from three's. Stevenson has been putrid this year, but yet he played far more than the better Young. The Knicks didn't have a single player taller than 6'8 (Lee), and yet Jordan refused to play Mcgee and Blatche, even though they dominated the smaller Knicks when they were in there. Javale only got 7 minutes! Instead, he went small with Songaila (WHO ONYLY HAS 11 REBOUNDS THIS YEAR! ELEVEN!).

Ernie didn't hire Jordan, Abe did. Here are Ernie's moves:

1) Signed Arenas as a FA. (Eddie wanted Kevin freaking Ollie as his PG).
2) Traded for Jamison (In retrospect, a good move, though I would have picked Iggy in that draft).
3) Matched Etan's contract with the Bucks (Every inside source says this was an Abe decision. Etan is a horrible basketball player).
4) Signed Brendan Haywood to an extension (GREAT move. He's been criminally underrated for years. The Wizards defense has been statitically average when he's on the floor. Yet Eddie never saw this and refused to give him more PT. When he's off the floor, the Wizards are statistically the worst defensive team in NBA history. That is a fact). Haywood's not paid near enough in comparison to other centers. He has arguably the best contract in the NBA. ETAN MAKES MORE!
5) Traded Kwame for Butler.
6) Refused to resign Hughes at a horrid price.
7) Refused to resign Jefferies (Unseld and MJ pick) at a horrid price.
7) Signed Daniels to a five year MLE deal. GOod move. Daniels was worth every penny of his deal before this year. He's a valued though because he expires next year. Looking back to every FA who signed an MLE deal that off-season, only McDyess was a better signing by Detroit.
8) Refused to resign Hayes (Unseld pick) after years of horrid play. Did you know Eddie played Hayes over Caron when Caron first got here? Caron STARTED ON THE BENCH! What coach thinks Jarvis Hayes is better than Caron Butler? It took a Hayes injury to force Caron into the starting lineup. Moreover, Jordan constantly played a 6'5 Hayes at PF for no reason. HE ALWAYS GOES SMALLBALL!
9) Drafted Blatche in 2nd round and signed him to a dirt cheap extension. Even if Blatche has dissapointed, he's worth every penny of his contract. 3rd bigs get paid MLE money. Blatche barely makes half of that, and is signed for the next four years.
10) Drafted Pecherov (Shot for a homerun and missed. Nothing really in that draft, though hindsight is always 20/20).
11) Found Roger Mason (True proffesional, who didn't resign because Abe refuses to pay the luxary tax).
12) Drafted Nick Young (Great value. Young is a future 20 ppg scorer in this league. With Haywood out, he's also the best defender on the roster).
13) Drafted Javale McGee (GREAT PICK. He's Tyson CHandler with more offense and explosion).
14) Signed Songaila (Ernie's only true bad move. With that said, I think Songaila would be a good player, if he actually only played his true position of PF. HE"S NOT A CENTER, despit what Eddie Jordan thought).
15) Resigned Jamison (A move that had to be made. You don't lose Jamison for nothing. Philly was going to go hard after him).
16) Resigned Arenas (A move that had to be made. Brand wasn't coming with only Butler on the roster (Jamison and Arenas had to be renounced to have the cap space to sign a max FA). No FA would have come with only Caron on the roster. Don't listen to Wilbon's trade ideas of Baron Davis+Biedrins for Arenas. Biedrin's cap hold would have made such a trade impossible under the CBA. Yet Wilbon, doesn't due any actual research on the CBA).


Grunfeld has done all he can due given an owner who orders resignings of medicore players (Etan) and refuses to pay the luxary tax. Every move Grunfeld has made has been a good move, save for signing Songaila.

[Kanyewest]

WIlbon is a moron. WHy doesn't he mention the fact that Abe won't pay the luxary tax. What else did he want us to do? We didn't have max salary space unless we renounced both Arenas and Jamison. Brand wasn't coming here with only Butler on the team. Then you end up signing Corey Maggette like players to 5 years, 50 million dollar deals like GSW did. I'd rather have resigned Jamison then lose him for nothing.

The Wizards still had their MLE which they could have used to go after free agents like James Posey or Louis Williams. They could have kept their 2nd round pick instead of trading it for cash. Or they could have simply re-signed Roger Mason Jr. to a reasonably cheap deal.

[mhd]

WIlbon is a moron. WHy doesn't he mention the fact that Abe won't pay the luxary tax. What else did he want us to do? We didn't have max salary space unless we renounced both Arenas and Jamison. Brand wasn't coming here with only Butler on the team. Then you end up signing Corey Maggette like players to 5 years, 50 million dollar deals like GSW did. I'd rather have resigned Jamison then lose him for nothing.

The Wizards still had their MLE which they could have used to go after free agents like James Posey or Louis Williams. They could have kept their 2nd round pick instead of trading it for cash. Or they could have simply re-signed Roger Mason Jr. to a reasonably cheap deal.

With Abe not paying the luxary tax, those deals were simply unattainable.

[nate33]

Ernie didn't hire Jordan, Abe did. Here are Ernie's moves:

1) Signed Arenas as a FA. (Eddie wanted Kevin freaking Ollie as his PG).
2) Traded for Jamison (In retrospect, a good move, though I would have picked Iggy in that draft).
3) Matched Etan's contract with the Bucks (Every inside source says this was an Abe decision. Etan is a horrible basketball player).
4) Signed Brendan Haywood to an extension (GREAT move. He's been criminally underrated for years. The Wizards defense has been statitically average when he's on the floor. Yet Eddie never saw this and refused to give him more PT. When he's off the floor, the Wizards are statistically the worst defensive team in NBA history. That is a fact). Haywood's not paid near enough in comparison to other centers. He has arguably the best contract in the NBA. ETAN MAKES MORE!
5) Traded Kwame for Butler.
6) Refused to resign Hughes at a horrid price.
7) Refused to resign Jefferies (Unseld and MJ pick) at a horrid price.
7) Signed Daniels to a five year MLE deal. GOod move. Daniels was worth every penny of his deal before this year. He's a valued though because he expires next year. Looking back to every FA who signed an MLE deal that off-season, only McDyess was a better signing by Detroit.
8) Refused to resign Hayes (Unseld pick) after years of horrid play. Did you know Eddie played Hayes over Caron when Caron first got here? Caron STARTED ON THE BENCH! What coach thinks Jarvis Hayes is better than Caron Butler? It took a Hayes injury to force Caron into the starting lineup. Moreover, Jordan constantly played a 6'5 Hayes at PF for no reason. HE ALWAYS GOES SMALLBALL!
9) Drafted Blatche in 2nd round and signed him to a dirt cheap extension. Even if Blatche has dissapointed, he's worth every penny of his contract. 3rd bigs get paid MLE money. Blatche barely makes half of that, and is signed for the next four years.
10) Drafted Pecherov (Shot for a homerun and missed. Nothing really in that draft, though hindsight is always 20/20).
11) Found Roger Mason (True proffesional, who didn't resign because Abe refuses to pay the luxary tax).
12) Drafted Nick Young (Great value. Young is a future 20 ppg scorer in this league. With Haywood out, he's also the best defender on the roster).
13) Drafted Javale McGee (GREAT PICK. He's Tyson CHandler with more offense and explosion).
14) Signed Songaila (Ernie's only true bad move. With that said, I think Songaila would be a good player, if he actually only played his true position of PF. HE"S NOT A CENTER, despit what Eddie Jordan thought).
15) Resigned Jamison (A move that had to be made. You don't lose Jamison for nothing. Philly was going to go hard after him).
16) Resigned Arenas (A move that had to be made. Brand wasn't coming with only Butler on the roster (Jamison and Arenas had to be renounced to have the cap space to sign a max FA). No FA would have come with only Caron on the roster. Don't listen to Wilbon's trade ideas of Baron Davis+Biedrins for Arenas. Biedrin's cap hold would have made such a trade impossible under the CBA. Yet Wilbon, doesn't due any actual research on the CBA).


Grunfeld has done all he can due given an owner who orders resignings of medicore players (Etan) and refuses to pay the luxary tax. Every move Grunfeld has made has been a good move, save for signing Songaila.

Great post mhd! You couldn't have broken it down any better. I'm gonna have to bookmark this and just repost it whenever I hear the mindless EG bashing.

[WizarDynasty]

Ernie should be fired for what he didn't do. this team needed perimeter defense the day that gilbert was signed. Did Ernie go out and execute a trade to get us that? Nope. Ernie trades to get Jamison---even at that point...Jamison was one of the worst defenders in the league--what did ernie do-decides to make Jamison-a bench player with no defense--teh starting powerforward for the wizard for the next 5 years. What free agent or trade moves did ernie make to cover up the fact that he had the worst defensive front court player in the league? Nothing. EJ and worked tireless to finally get a decent defensive long back up point guard in donnel taylor---what did grunfeld do--release him and who do we have today--An age A.D., juan dixon, and dee brown. --the roster doesn't have one above average defender at the point guard spot..even on the bench...

What did Ernie do when our top defensive perimeter player--who covered up most of jamisons weaknesses.--He went out and got deshaun stevenson an avg defensive player at best---and took away the one defensive cushion that supported his "wonderful Jamison trade". After cutting Donnel taylor the season before he decides to draft Opec--a player who has yet to play more than ten minutes in the last three years and also truly sucks. Did ernie execute a draft day deal to get us a position of need...--even at that time we needed perimeter defense and goes out and gets a no name russian, and anohter no name russion in teh second round. When it was later determined that caron desperately needed a defensive back up..who did E.G. to save the day. You guessed it, dominic mcguire--a guy who can't move his feet sideway to save his life and is even worse than caron defending the perimeter...and can you believe he is still on the roster. James Posey..a guy whom michael jordan recognized as a player the wizards needed back in his day..was a free agent the last three years..was on champion magic and champion boston...did ernie plan strategically to grab this player...nope.
The moves the EG didn't make happen...to address this teams needs within the last 4 years is why he need to be fired. AGain, I repeat..its the moves that ernie didn't not execute for why he should be fired. You can use ABE as an excuse all you want...but just like EJ..Ernie is the one that fans need to hold accountable for draft day blockbuster trades that determined the path this team would sail. the moment he made jamison a starter..he had already plotted the wizards on a course for failure...and since he didnt' make moves to make the the jamison trade at least longterm rise...bearable..he should be fired.

I highly doubt Abe was the one who came up with the trade idea to get jamison. I highly doubt Abe was behind the A.D. longterm signing being the longterm solution for back up defensive pg. I highly doubt Abe was the one who made Grunfeld use up a high second round pick to get PJR. I can keep going and going...but "the point is that Grunfeld failed to execute the moves necessary to make this team a contender. He gambled with Jamison--and lost horribly--We now know today that Caron Butler is not an allstar--it was only for one season--he is terrible defensive player like jamison. Andre Blatche was not a great GM move by grunfeld. Andre Blatche had been promised a 16th 1st round pick by celtics adn they chose gerald green. Andre Blatche has yet to show in his career that he starter material.


Now great moves that address team needs were..Lakers getting paul for kwame---hornets trading for tyson chandler--celtics signing rajon rondo--after grunfeld picks OPEC--the great picks that grunfeld so called made were all players that had rated way higher than ernies pick. He wasn't make a difficult decision when nick young fell to 16..nick was projected in lottery. Mcgee fell to 18th..mcgee was projected in the lottery. these selections are not great GM moves. You measure a GM by what he does in free agency and through trades to make the team better. Getting a 6th man bench player in jamison for the 4th overall pick in the draft...we now know that all it lead to was 1st round playoff win. that's it. that's what grunfeld sacrificed an entired failed season for. We finally have a record for seeing the results of Ernies actions and they have lead to one of the worst benches in the NBA.