Long Term Plan? (merged threads)

[StitchJones]

Considering you won't be trading Gil, I would definitely still look to move Jamison. If you can deal him to Golden State for Brandon Wright an expiring and a pick, that would be a BIG move. Wright has loads of talent, but Nellie just does not play him many minutes. It would give you another great young big who a lot of scouts think has all star ability but just has not had the opportunity to shine.

[spaceman_E]

Other players not brought up yet...

defensive backup PG:
Jarrett Jack who is a FA after this season
Kyle Lowry

Defensive 2/3:
Shane Battier - might become available if they decide to re-up Artest.
Ron Artest - FA after this year, Houston could let him go if it doesn't work out.
Corey Brewer - Wolves probably not ready to give up on him yet but it can't hurt to ask. Might not be any better than DMac at the moment.
Grant Hill - FA after this year. Time for him to come home?
Stephen Jackson

My favorite scenario would be to trade for Hinrich and sign Grant Hill, but if we could get Battier or Artest and sign Jarrett Jack on the cheap that's not bad either.

[AgentOvechkin08]

Considering you won't be trading Gil, I would definitely still look to move Jamison. If you can deal him to Golden State for Brandon Wright an expiring and a pick, that would be a BIG move. Wright has loads of talent, but Nellie just does not play him many minutes. It would give you another great young big who a lot of scouts think has all star ability but just has not had the opportunity to shine.

Jamison to GS would be tough, because you would most likely have to involve Stephen Jackson or Jamal Crawford (who cant be traded with a package of players for 2 months). I like B. Wright but he is ultra thin and it is kinda scary lookin.

Also whoever brought up the Vince Carter idea, i like it. If we gave them 2010 exprings (Thomas, Daniels, pecherov), would that be enough, because the Knicks are loading up like crazy and New Jersey would probably like to have some 2010 expirings and get Carter off the books. But my ideal situation would have VC and not have to give up Young, because he could still develop while VC starts for a couple more years.

[StitchJones]

Considering you won't be trading Gil, I would definitely still look to move Jamison. If you can deal him to Golden State for Brandon Wright an expiring and a pick, that would be a BIG move. Wright has loads of talent, but Nellie just does not play him many minutes. It would give you another great young big who a lot of scouts think has all star ability but just has not had the opportunity to shine.

Jamison to GS would be tough, because you would most likely have to involve Stephen Jackson or Jamal Crawford (who cant be traded with a package of players for 2 months). I like B. Wright but he is ultra thin and it is kinda scary lookin.

Also whoever brought up the Vince Carter idea, i like it. If we gave them 2010 exprings (Thomas, Daniels, pecherov), would that be enough, because the Knicks are loading up like crazy and New Jersey would probably like to have some 2010 expirings and get Carter off the books. But my ideal situation would have VC and not have to give up Young, because he could still develop while VC starts for a couple more years.

It would be tough. Would have been easier before the Harrington trade. Could have been Wright, Harrington and a pick. Brandon might be thin and funny looking, but he has game. that's all that matters right?

[AgentOvechkin08]

Considering you won't be trading Gil, I would definitely still look to move Jamison. If you can deal him to Golden State for Brandon Wright an expiring and a pick, that would be a BIG move. Wright has loads of talent, but Nellie just does not play him many minutes. It would give you another great young big who a lot of scouts think has all star ability but just has not had the opportunity to shine.

Jamison to GS would be tough, because you would most likely have to involve Stephen Jackson or Jamal Crawford (who cant be traded with a package of players for 2 months). I like B. Wright but he is ultra thin and it is kinda scary lookin.

Also whoever brought up the Vince Carter idea, i like it. If we gave them 2010 exprings (Thomas, Daniels, pecherov), would that be enough, because the Knicks are loading up like crazy and New Jersey would probably like to have some 2010 expirings and get Carter off the books. But my ideal situation would have VC and not have to give up Young, because he could still develop while VC starts for a couple more years.

It would be tough. Would have been easier before the Harrington trade. Could have been Wright, Harrington and a pick. Brandon might be thin and funny looking, but he has game. that's all that matters right?

Yea his game is really good, and has the potential to be great, and I would love to have him. I think that him coming off the bench for blatche or the other way around would be awesome. I mean if you thought McGee was long with a 7'6 wingspan at 7 feet tall, Wright is 6' 10 and has a 7' 5 wingspan. OMG

[nate33]

Considering you won't be trading Gil, I would definitely still look to move Jamison. If you can deal him to Golden State for Brandon Wright an expiring and a pick, that would be a BIG move. Wright has loads of talent, but Nellie just does not play him many minutes. It would give you another great young big who a lot of scouts think has all star ability but just has not had the opportunity to shine.

Jamison to GS would be tough, because you would most likely have to involve Stephen Jackson or Jamal Crawford (who cant be traded with a package of players for 2 months). I like B. Wright but he is ultra thin and it is kinda scary lookin.

Also whoever brought up the Vince Carter idea, i like it. If we gave them 2010 exprings (Thomas, Daniels, pecherov), would that be enough, because the Knicks are loading up like crazy and New Jersey would probably like to have some 2010 expirings and get Carter off the books. But my ideal situation would have VC and not have to give up Young, because he could still develop while VC starts for a couple more years.

It would be tough. Would have been easier before the Harrington trade. Could have been Wright, Harrington and a pick. Brandon might be thin and funny looking, but he has game. that's all that matters right?

I'd definitely consider trading Jamison for Wright. Wright has put up fabulous per minute numbers so far. The problem is that Golden State doesn't have any filler contracts.

[nate33]

Other players not brought up yet...

defensive backup PG:
Jarrett Jack who is a FA after this season
Kyle Lowry

Defensive 2/3:
Shane Battier - might become available if they decide to re-up Artest.
Ron Artest - FA after this year, Houston could let him go if it doesn't work out.
Corey Brewer - Wolves probably not ready to give up on him yet but it can't hurt to ask. Might not be any better than DMac at the moment.
Grant Hill - FA after this year. Time for him to come home?
Stephen Jackson

My favorite scenario would be to trade for Hinrich and sign Grant Hill, but if we could get Battier or Artest and sign Jarrett Jack on the cheap that's not bad either.

Some more good names here. I wouldn't go after Artest or Jackson because I don't think they have the mentality to be supportive role players. Also, the price will probably be too high. I also don't think Grant Hill has much left in the tank, particularly with this medical staff. Jack, Lowry and Battier are interesting names though. Brewer, not so much.

[Rafael122]

I don't even know where to put this, but regarding draft prospects, I saw Oklahoma's game the other night. Holy crap is Blake Griffin good.

He reminds me so much of Carlos Boozer. It's uncanny how they both have similar games. That's the prize in this year's draft IMO, should he come out.

[Benjammin]

Barring injury, I would think Griffin is coming out. I think he can have a bigger impact than Durant or Beasley, but not quite on the level of Oden and Rose as prospects coming out.

[WizarDynasty]

so you really think griffin is going to help improve our interior defense..something jamison was one the worst in league at? (maybe at 6'7 he can turn into a shot blocker like brand or maybe shaun marion--maybe he might have hops and wingspan like josh smith?) Maybe he might help change us from having the worst perimeter defense in the league to maybe average..or above average. I guess i need see how many shot blocks he average against inferior college players.
You, maybe griffin can turn into our number post option? I was told he was 6'7 without shoes and 6'8..maybe 6'9 with shoes and has the a wingspan of a small forward...about 7'0 wingspan. I don' t know maybe, i am wrong?
I guess he would be a major improvement over having Jamison has a number post options...(oh forgot jamison shoots under 50 percent...and shoots a low 3 pt percentage?
I assume that ever time he gets the ball in post, teams will be forced to double team him and open up our offense...I guess having a 6'7 post player in the post strikes alot fear in many opponents. I hope Griffin' being undersized for a powerforward in the nba can take players like chris bosh out on the perimeter..since he will probably have issues shooting over playoff powerforwards in the east...i guess guys like horford, bosh, garnett, brand, howard, wallace....i assume he will do ok against the other undersized powerforwards in the east coast like...beasley, tyrus, okafor, david lee, Yi jianlian--so he might help us dominate the lower quality powerforwards in the post since he would be our number one post option.

oh i forgot...he is michael jordan fan, his oklahoma jersey number is 23--he's a SG/SF...(his highlight on you tube are of him driving to basket and dunking like jordan...no drop steps or post moves) i guess if we get him, we moved caron butler to the two guard...and put deshaun on the bench...whoopie! anything to get deshaun on bench. But its amazing..he does take off and dunk like jordan...he kind of reminds how caron butler was when he first got here...really explosive and would take off in the lane and dunk on every body...before the knee injury. Yeah but griffin is a small forward...so i guess we could trade caron butler...or move caron to sg spot..and keep young coming off the bench. I guess we will either keep jamison starting at the 4..if blatche continues to play like he's been the last few years.

[Benjammin]

Wizardynasty, the likelihood of Blake Griffin measuring out at 6-7 is the same as you having a chance to know much about basketball, in other words slim and none, and slim just left town.

[BruceO]

He's listed as 6 10' 239 from last year and he's still growing. He's much stronger now to an unstoppable point. Too strong for college post players. I've been on board with you on alot of things regarding our player types. Infact what we were saying was being echoed by charles barkley the other day during orlando game. We lack interior size and we get posted up then the ball is kicked out and we are scrambling. I felt the scrambling was more the Big mens fault since they needed help.
Charles also talked about how it was the GM's fault.
Blake Griffin I think is one of the better prospects next yer who's worth it. He's an amare / Boozer clone if not better. He's putting up ridiculous numbers and is a hard worker. He's worked with on of Arenas trainers doing a workout that most players can't handle. Possibly word of how good Griffin is has made its way to Arenas ears. I believe if we draft first he will be our pick. We do not need rubio unless we feel we can get rid of arenas for good value. even then that will seem like a lateral move unless Rubio is that good which I don't believe, because not only does he need to be good, he has to be good enough to warrant getting rid of Gil. Griffin on the other hand is the biggest impact player right now averaging 26 points and close to 20 rebounds. He will give us much needed toughness and will be capable of developing a low post game. I put him in the type of mismatch range created by the likes of Boozer, Amare, Dwight, David Lee. I also put him at that rebound range and his rebounding will translate to over 10 rebounds per game easy. here is his profile

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Blake-Griffin-1268/

here are next years prospects with profiles that can be reached through links.

http://www.draftexpress.com/index.php

[BruceO]

That was an ugly orlando game. I Like turkoglu. He expires at the same time as etan and has an identical salary. Maybe we can find a way to get him when he expires if he's still young enough to play.
He has an ability to play the 1, 2 and 3 at 6 10. Thats amazing. Imagine plugging him into our lineup. Playing in tandem with Gilbert and Caron as a big SF or ultra big SG. Or playing with Nick young as the PG. That just creates mismatches all over.
No need to hire a pricey backup pg to replace AD, no need for Deshawn and a we also got a solid SF to play before/ after or with Caron.
Also we need a three point specialist with size like Kapono, Stojakovic, Radmanovic as a role player. It seems apparent that our roster needs to be redone. I think thats why I'm excited about the Eddie Jordan firing. Not because I dislike him, but because finally the status quo is changing. finally moves might be made.

[WizarDynasty]

Caron only plays SF because he is to slow laterally to guard shooting guards.
Same with Jamison, he plays powerforward because he is to slow to guard SF. This a reoccuring trend with Grunfeld. He demonstrates poor conceptual understanding in terms of wingspan and lateral acceleration of a player relative to his position. He thought Jamison could play SF and that all Jamison needed to do was put forth effort and he could magically guard SF. That is Ernie and Eddie's thinking....they complete ignore a players lateral acceleration and wingspan relative to their respective positions.
Deshaun was just a reactionary move because he screwed up so badly in accessing Caron bulters ability to defend SG's. (We let larry walk--but most nights arenas was guarding the SG--or Jeffries) He thought that CAron would be able to cover all of Jeffries duties defensively and it just go with teh concept that Grunfeld showed no appreciation for Jeffries (defensive talents--great wingspan for sf and great lateral acceleration for Sf)--we all remember when Jeffries had assignments ranging from guarding allen iverson to guarding lebron james and paul pierce--Kevin Garnett!! and the incompetent grunfeld thought that etan and AD were worth midlevel...not jeffries..yet in all of the wizs most important games--the most difficult assignment was given to jeffries...and now we see d.s. and caron get abused badly by these same players.
Grunfeld i think has finally begun to "get it" when it comes to wingspan for your post players and perimeter players with the drafting of young--excellent wingspan...dominic--excellent wingspan--but he has yet to figure out how to evaluate a players ability to quickly accelerate and daaccelerate in order to not be called for blocking fouls..especially at the guard positions. He tried with Dee Brown bt completely missed the fact that dee brown has a poor wingspan relative to the average point gaurd..and if you want to cover up gils poor lateral acceleration...you need to bring in a back up with superior lateral acceleration..and deacceleration....I think because grunfeld and eddie were such poor defensive players especially when it came to having lateral acceleration when they played...that they can only recognize talent in the areas they were talented in. NOw bringing in Eric Snow a ex player who knows what it takes defensively to stop a player like allen iverson from driving..and knows what a great defensive team looks like personal wise in terms of their movements. I don't know if Eric Snow has a proven offensive system to attack zone defenses like Eddie did since much of Eric Snows knowledge comes from man to man defenses and attacking man to man defenses.
But selecting a point guard who was actually good at shutting down the perimeter defensively when he was player is probably the first thing this team needs to do. They definitely need a coach who is on the cutting edge when it comes to attacking zone defenses--something eddie was good at..--but also have an eye towards selecting all around defensive players that have great lateral acceleration and wingspan relative to their position..and then the Basketball IQ...locker room presence...anticipation skills...evaluating these traits in a player takes an exceptional GM. The problem i have with Grunfeld..is that he doesn't build the team with players that have both above average lateral aceleration and above average wingspan relative to their position because he simply doesn't understand its the difference between being average 7th seed versus getting stops in the playoffs in the 4th quarter in an away game when the refs are not on your side. that's when having talented defensive players who get clean blocks without fouling actually matters...away games in teh playoffs in the 4th quarter. And if you have built your perimeter players with no concept of lateral acceleration and wingspan...
You are not going to shut down 6'10 rashard lewis...6'10 Hedo--with 6'6 players with poor wingspans for a sf or pf. So hopefully Grunfeld begins to study these aspects of defense and seleet someone who can identify players with these talents.."obviously tapscott is just as incompetent since he has been in on most of the major personel decisions...Randy Ayers can't identify these traits in players either because the wiz didn't bring one single diamond in the rough defensive player this offeseason.
So in summary..-dominic mcquire--is an expression of where grunfelds concept of perimeter defense is. So far he understands wingspan..but doesn't yet understand how to evaluate exceptional lateral acceleration..and deaccleration...the ability to acceleration quickly...then completely stop all of your momentum on a dime..(Grunfeld apparently thinks this ability can be learned but its actually an ability that is very hard to improve...just like improving a persons vertical jump--how many people here think that Jamison can add 10 inches to his vertical jump if tried very hard in the offseason--well that's what grunfeld thinks when he selects his players) and then accelerate laterally..again to full speed thus keeping your chest in front of the offensive players forcing charges..as we have seen with Caron bulter off to often...
(Grunfeld lacks the ability to recognizing players with exceptional lateral acceleration--because he never had any but Grunfeld is able to recognize a great shooter--because grunfeld was a great shooter when he played--same with eddie jordan---tapscotti is probably worst than was ernie from a physical standpoint.when he played basketball when he was younger--so you have the blind leading the blind--someone would have to give me some insignts in Ayers--but most players back in the 80's were not great at lateral acceleration because you were allowed to hand check--(except the best like...cough Dumars---which is why he is so far in front of the rest of the GMs..due to his personal experience of being great at shutting down the drive) --how many GM's can say that they have first hand knowledge of what it takes to shut down a great point guard--like isaih and know the physical traits that guard most possess in order to accomplish this..(dumars---check---was avery johnson great at shutting down an opponents drive..i guess i gotta check the film..Byron Scott i think was ok..not great---scott skiles--lol--hmmm--Doc Rivers--not really--I would conclude that Dumars was probably the greatest defensive point guard of his day--and completely understand how to select players with great lateral acceleration and wingspan at the back court positions...and you didn't need to have fast lateral acceleration like in todays game.) but also having big men with both wignspan and lateral acceleration to guard the "PICK and ROLL"
to make a long story short...eric snow was a great defender--like dumars--his demeanor thought may be to laid back--but i believe he would has the insight to make teh same great personnel moves as Dumars has and he also has played alot in the new ear zone defenses with larry brown.

[daSwami]

Caron only plays SF because he is to slow laterally to guard shooting guards.

My personal observation is that this is not true. I believe Butler's perceived defensive shortcomings have more to do with the Wizards' defensive schemes than with any lack of individual skill or athleticism. It appears as if Butler (and before him Hughes) has been encouraged to lag off his man (particularly when he's defending the weak side of the court) in favor of playing the passing lanes in hopes of gambling for steals. This philosophy, imho, is too high risk/low reward.

If anything, Butler plays SF because he's the best SF we have, not because he can't defend the 2 spot.

[WizarDynasty]

Caron only plays SF because he is to slow laterally to guard shooting guards.

My personal observation is that this is not true. I believe Butler's perceived defensive shortcomings have more to do with the Wizards' defensive schemes than with any lack of individual skill or athleticism. It appears as if Butler (and before him Hughes) has been encouraged to lag off his man (particularly when he's defending the weak side of the court) in favor of playing the passing lanes in hopes of gambling for steals. This philosophy, imho, is too high risk/low reward.

If anything, Butler plays SF because he's the best SF we have, not because he can't defend the 2 spot.

Butler is strong, but he usually gets overpowered by the playoff s/f and if he isn't over powered, they shoot over him. marion,Hedo, tayshaun, pierce, Lebron....sgs that he has to stop in the playoffs--rip hamilon, ray allen, delonte west, d. wade, pietrus---these are the matchups and question you have to ask yourself is..who the wins--which player at sg or sf would caron have the advantage on defending ? I don't see one match up sg or sf where caron butler would win the battle defensively.
lebron james guards caron on defense and wins--caron guards lebron on defense and loses (caron guard delonte west?)
hedo guards caron on defense and looses, caron guards hedo on defense--loses (caron guard pietrus)
tayshaun guards caron on defense--wins--caron guards tayshaun on defense--loses (caron guards rip--?)
pierce guards caron on defense--wins--caron guards pierce on defense lo\oses (caron guard allen?)
marion guards caron on defense--tie caron guards marion on defense--wins (def can't guard wade)
so the only advantage defensive for caron is against hedo...the rest of the matchups against s/f are unfavorable.
cAn caron contain ray allen, delonte west, rip hamilton---you have to say yes if you think caron butler can actually play sg because these are the game that really matter.
if he can play sg, that means he has a favorable matchup going against the easter conference playoff sgs on defense.
Now there would definitely be a mismatch if delonte west had to guard caron on defense..but that's not what would happen...lebron james would gaurd caron and has already shown he can shut him down defensively.
We already see that since Hedo can't guard caron--its an unfavorable matchup for orlando..orlando would normally put pietrus on caron and hedo guard who ever our shooting guard is...and since our sg is deshaun stevenson..they can easily get away with doing that.
We already know that moving deshaun to guard hedo still favors magic.
We already know that switching deshaun to guard lebron..still favors magin
switching deshaun to guard pierce still favors boston...
switching deshaun to guard tayshaun prince till favors detroit.
This is why grunfeld needs to go...he has failed to assembled players that can match up with the top five playoff teams at their respective positions and doesn't get the bench players needed to fill in when there is an unfavorable matchup. For instance Travis outlaw with his lenght would match up well with all of the tall smallforwards that are in the east coast---Jeffries match up well defensively with the tall smallforwards and would have been a way better bench player than A.D.

[daSwami]

Caron only plays SF because he is to slow laterally to guard shooting guards.

My personal observation is that this is not true. I believe Butler's perceived defensive shortcomings have more to do with the Wizards' defensive schemes than with any lack of individual skill or athleticism. It appears as if Butler (and before him Hughes) has been encouraged to lag off his man (particularly when he's defending the weak side of the court) in favor of playing the passing lanes in hopes of gambling for steals. This philosophy, imho, is too high risk/low reward.

If anything, Butler plays SF because he's the best SF we have, not because he can't defend the 2 spot.

edited to add: sorry, I was meaning to post this in response to dynasty's last post, not in response to myself. (Which isn't to say that I'm not given to talking to arguing aloud with myself on occasion.)

basketball is a team sport. You seem to be focusing myopically on hypothetical one-on-one match-ups and on arbitary musculo-skeletal criteria than on anything relating why this team plays such collectively poor defense year-in and year out. Forgive me if I don't buy into your wing-span and bow-legs theories, which may have some merit, but hardly address why this team gives up so damn many open jump shots.

[WizarDynasty]

edited to add: sorry, I was meaning to post this in response to dynasty's last post, not in response to myself. (Which isn't to say that I'm not given to talking to arguing aloud with myself on occasion.)

basketball is a team sport. You seem to be focusing myopically on hypothetical one-on-one match-ups and on arbitary musculo-skeletal criteria than on anything relating why this team plays such collectively poor defense year-in and year out. Forgive me if I don't buy into your wing-span and bow-legs theories, which may have some merit, but hardly address why this team gives up so damn many open jump shots.

ok i am going to do this favor and put it into real simple terms---lets just cut the musculoskeletal--vocab...

This is really basic knowledge and anyone that actually plays knows that its alot more difficult to make a shot against someone who is close to blocking your shot on teh perimeter. Now if that still doesn't clear things up for you, nothing really will. Teh wizards players from position 1-4 don't have good length when going up against playoffs teams when they try and contest a shot. If Dirk Nowiski is shooting a three and you raise your hand in his face...he is going to hit the shot because your arms are not long enough to impede his vision. TEam defense is not going to shut down Dirk...you need someone who is just as long as dirk because arms have to be force dirk to adjust his shot.
When javale mcgee is charging someone shooting a three point shot...do you think they take the normal shooting motion they would if they were being charged by caron butler? Hell no? the longer a perimeter player is--the more an offensive player had to adjust the ark on his shot...

ok..so that's a term you need to use...Long perimeter players defensive players force a shooter to adjust the arc on his shot...short perimeter players do not....has nothing to do with team...
I am stopping after this because i think you are smart enough to add the other pieces together if we want to move this conversation forward.
You have to have defenders that force a player to change their normal shooting motions on the perimeter. Wizards don't have long players guarding the perimeter to do this. Being long is something you can't teach.
And defense in nba is hugely based on matchups because the moment the team...double teams one player...another player is wide open. Most miss matches which cause your entire "team defense to collapse and weaken"--is due to arbitary musculo-skeletal of one the members in a matchup. Once the team makes an adjustment due to one their members weakness...jamison in on the post...automatic double...professional basketball teams have plays designed to gain an offensive advantage the momemt that you double team. Does that make sense.
Missmatches in the nba are based on one player having a superior "arbitary musculo-skeletal advantage over another"...does that make sense. the better you match up arbitary musculo-skeletal ...the less likely you have to weaknen your defense and not give up easy points scored.

[Donkey McDonkerton]

I am stopping after this

hallelujah

[AgentOvechkin08]

Watching Blake Griffin makes me drool...lol.

Man if you can imagine a frontline of him and mcgee for years to come...that would be awwwwwwwsome.