Asante Samuel: Whaaa Whaaa Whaaaa

[Basketball Jesus]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/p ... n_week_10/

BOLTON -- The Patriots' lone mandatory offseason minicamp starts today, and disgruntled cornerback Asante Samuel won't be present.

Reached yesterday after he didn't show up to the Patriots Charitable Foundation golf tournament at The International, Samuel reiterated his stance that he is unhappy with the progress of contract negotiations.

"I'm not coming to camp," he said. "I'm not showing up until the 10th week [of the season]. I feel unappreciated. The way they're treating me is just wrong."

Samuel was assigned the franchise tag in February, and since he has not signed the tender, which would guarantee him a one-year, $7.79 million salary, he is technically not under contract and cannot be fined for missing minicamp.

At this point is there anybody that sympathizes with Samuel?

[sunshinekids99]

Well for a guy with a "Get Paid" tatt I'd expect no less. Just trade this whiny bitch.

[HCYanks]

Trade his ass. His value's only going to go down anyway.

[Celtics_Champs]

**** asante. Trade him.

[Basketball Jesus]

I love how, prior to last season, he was considered somewhat of a disappointment, goes out and has one good season then boom, he thinks of himself as a top-10 corner.

He

[captain_cheapseats]

I think it's kinda funny how when a team cuts a vet, who has played his heart and soul out for a team, to save cap room, everyone says "well, it's a business, you can't make it personal." But then a guy like Assante decides to hold out, perfectly within the rules, and everyone acts like he ran over their dog. I thought it was just business?

P.S. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, since this board is too new for me to know how people feel when teams cast aside long time players. My point is simply that you can't say it's "just business" when a team pursues its financial well-being at the expense of players, but then act like players are jerks when they do the exact same at the expense of the team.

[HCYanks]

I think it's kinda funny how when a team cuts a vet, who has played his heart and soul out for a team, to save cap room, everyone says "well, it's a business, you can't make it personal." But then a guy like Assante decides to hold out, perfectly within the rules, and everyone acts like he ran over their dog. I thought it was just business?

P.S. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, since this board is too new for me to know how people feel when teams cast aside long time players. My point is simply that you can't say it's "just business" when a team pursues its financial well-being at the expense of players, but then act like players are jerks when they do the exact same at the expense of the team.

Samuel is clearly going after a contract he doesn't deserve and is acting like the Patriots are terrible bastards for not giving him it. Using the franchise tag on him is an overpayment in the first place because he's not good enough to warrant top-5 CB money. But since he won't take a more reasonable long-term extension, or take the nice chunk of change that he would get for playing this year (and i'm not convinced he actually would pass up that money), i'm all for trading him to a team that's stupid enough to give him his payday.

[Basketball Jesus]

I think it's kinda funny how when a team cuts a vet, who has played his heart and soul out for a team, to save cap room, everyone says "well, it's a business, you can't make it personal." But then a guy like Assante decides to hold out, perfectly within the rules, and everyone acts like he ran over their dog. I thought it was just business?

Isn't that really just both sides of the same coin, i.e. the team before the individual?

My point is simply that you can't say it's "just business" when a team pursues its financial well-being at the expense of players, but then act like players are jerks when they do the exact same at the expense of the team.

Of course not, but you also can't sympathize with somebody that demands the moon after one season of decent play when the previous four were a disappointment. And, like HC mentioned, the Pats franchise tagged him. He's receiving a guaranteed contract equal to the average of the top-5 players at his position. It's not like he's pissed because he's playing through his rookie contract; he was offered more money than he's realistically worth.

[Pierce 4 3]

[BS007]

How can this guy turn down nearly 8 million dollars? What an idiot! Oh well, he's way overrated to begin with.

[Basketball Jesus]

It

[Celtics_Champs]

What could we get for asante?

The jets are apparently interested. http://www.realgmfootball.com/src_wiret ... the_money/

[captain_cheapseats]

Samuel is clearly going after a contract he doesn't deserve and is acting like the Patriots are terrible bastards for not giving him it. Using the franchise tag on him is an overpayment in the first place because he's not good enough to warrant top-5 CB money. But since he won't take a more reasonable long-term extension, or take the nice chunk of change that he would get for playing this year (and i'm not convinced he actually would pass up that money), i'm all for trading him to a team that's stupid enough to give him his payday.

I think you are underrating him. Judging by the wiretap article, several NFL teams would agree he is worth the money.

Keep in mind we're talking about a guy who has been in the NFL for 4 years, and has (with one exception) improved his performance in every single statistical category, every single season:

Tackles: 34, 36, 54, 64
INTs: 2, 1, 3, 10
Passes Def.: 5, 11, 13, 14

There's a pretty clear trend here; this a young guy who has kept getting better each year he's been in the NFL, and is not some vet who suddenly blows up in a contract year. Also, he doesn't play a position conducive to improving through extra effort like a defensive lineman. It's not like a CB can be like "ok, this is a contract year, so now I'm going to stop getting tricked by double moves."

Also, CB is a position where immediate impact is rarely made, and guys tend to "break out" their 3rd or 4th season. By way of comparison, consider the first 4 seasons of the last good New England CB, Ty Law's, career:

Tackles: 48, 62, 77, 70
INTs: 3, 3, 3, 9
Passes Def.: 6, 6, 8, 23

Of course, CB is a tough position to analyze by stats, the idea is just to provide some objective basis for what I've seen while watching the games. Samuel has gotten better and better every year, and the 2nd half of last season, he was one of the top 5 CBs in the NFL.

EDIT: Come to think of it, can anyone think of a top-flight CB who stopped playing well right after getting a big contract (excluding injuries, of course)? I can think of lots of DLs, but I can't think of a single CB who played into a big contract, and then sucked the next season.

[captain_cheapseats]

I don't think that's fair. He's a young guy who has gotten better every year. I think the fact that he is holding out is clouding people's judgment of him.

...


So why do people think Samuel, drafted at the same time and following roughly the same path of steady improvement over 3 seasons, followed by a large break out in his fourth, is going to revert back to the way he was before?


EDIT: Sorry, C_C, I hit the wrong button, sadly editing instead of quoting your post. FWIW, I agree about the Ty Warren part. If you can remember the gist of it, feel free to re-edit. - BBJ

[Basketball Jesus]

I don't think that's fair. He's a young guy who has gotten better every year. I think the fact that he is holding out is clouding people's judgment of him.

That

[bru87tr]

we wont miss him. our team is beef'd.

I dont understand some players. do they think this makes them look good ? they hurt themselves leaving money on the table and DONT PLAY. not playing hurts them.

just dont understand it. what about team ? seems alot of players would rather make billions on top of the billions they already make instead of taking fair market value and play for a wining team.

asante needs to proove another year IMO.

[captain_cheapseats]

That

[Chach]

That being said, he still is only so talented. Champ Bailey he is not. He's a nominal #1 corner but I would hardly call him a shutdown corner because of the holes in his game. He's good and I wouldn't mind including him in the fold over the next five or six years.

So then the problem that arises is that he's not worth the money he wants. So he has two choices, take the fair offer from the Pats or hold out and try to work a trade. Because he's not getting more than what the Pats are offering, they don't play that game. And acting like a cry baby certainly isn't going to help the situation much, especially with the Pats being less likely to drop their price for him. All they need to do is franchise him again next year and we are in the exact same place. So it behooves him to make a deal happen and acting like a spoiled brat is not going to make it happen. mahalo
~Chach~

[Basketball Jesus]

You're right about Harrison, but as I recall Seymour got ripped every bit as much as Samuel, perhaps even more.

I could be wrong but, outside of the morons over at the Herald, nobody seriously criticized Seymour for holding out. If anything, the Pats front office were the ones being taken to task for not giving Seymour what he obviously deserved.

As for the bit about Samuel still having the same holes in his game that he had before, the answer is of course he does. He always will too. The difference I saw last year was that he seems to have finally learned to play the ball in the air. Combined with the strength he's always had, which IMO is that he almost never falls for the various "moves" used by receivers to get open, that made him a pretty darn good CB. There's no reasons to think those two strengths will disappear, and hence no real reason to think he will regress. Brady will never throw a good deep-ball, the exact same weakness he had when he was a marginal QB, but that doesn't mean there is any reason to expect he will revert to old form.

This is all true but the question isn

[Next Coming]

From an outsiders perspective the Patriots come out smelling like roses again and they are playing the board perfectly.

If the Patriots can get a 1st round pick for Deion Branch then they certainly can get a 1st for Asante Samuel who plays at a much more important position.

I'd be smiling if I was a Pats fan.