Where to find another James Posey?
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Where to find another James Posey?
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Where to find another James Posey?
Now I first have to say it's hard to argue with the success the Celtics have had this season. I'm in no way trying to put the team down. I however see a glaring need for this team and that is a big backup forward.
There are a lot of tough big forwards in this league, LBJ, Hedo, Deng, Marion, Maggette, and many more. Now I have no problem when Paul Pierce is covering them. But the issue becomes when the bench comes in. Tony Allen is just too small against these bigger guys. I've seen Doc try and use Big Baby against Maggette, with no success. Scals is just not good enough either.
So the Celtics have to go out and find one. I've looked at the teams with bad records to see who could be out there. Here is the list that I came up with.
New York Knicks- Jared Jefferies- I'm sure the Knicks would love to move him. I'm also not sure how durable he is and if he could even return to the defense he was once "known" for. Plus how much do we want to help the Knicks in 2010? A deal that could work would be Scalabrine, O'bryant, and Sam. Sam would be cut and back in 30 days.
Milwaukee Bucks- Charlie Villanueva- He does have great size. And has some offensive game. Problem I'm not sure how much he brings on the defensive side of the ball. A deal that could work is Scalabrine and BBD. Of course a pick would most likely need to be included by the Celtics as well.
Charlotte Bobcats- Jared Dudley- A local favorite that is a hustle guy. Shouldn't cost a whole lot, but is no where near the vet leadership you got from Posey last season. Dudley could come at the cost of BBD and Pruitt. I think a second round pick would need to be included from the Bobcats.
Minnesota Timberwolves- Rodney Carney- Another guy who has some offensive game. Not really sure how much defense he could bring to the team. Another issue is a young guy. Carney has a harder salary to move. It would take a O'Bryant and Pruitt or Walker to get the deal done and I'm not sure how much that benefits the Celtics.
Oklahoma City Thunder- Damien Wilkins- A guy who seems to need a new team. Has had success in the past. Is really having a horrible offensive season so far this year. Salary wise Scalabrine matches Damien. However the C's would have to include a pick or a Pruitt/BBD.
Los Angeles Clippers- Mardy Collins- Known coming out of college for his defense. Really has struggled offensively so far in the NBA. Collins can't be moved until the 21st of January. A deal of O'bryant or BBD for Collins works salary wise.
Personally I think the best deal for the Celtics would be the Knicks deal. Of course the Celtics would need to know Jefferies is healthy. This would then provide a defensive minded guy off the bench. That can at least play against these bigger forwards. Now he lacks the outside shooting of Posey. But I do believe his offense is better than what people give him credit for.
Anybody interested in any of these scenarios? Or did I miss anybody?
There are a lot of tough big forwards in this league, LBJ, Hedo, Deng, Marion, Maggette, and many more. Now I have no problem when Paul Pierce is covering them. But the issue becomes when the bench comes in. Tony Allen is just too small against these bigger guys. I've seen Doc try and use Big Baby against Maggette, with no success. Scals is just not good enough either.
So the Celtics have to go out and find one. I've looked at the teams with bad records to see who could be out there. Here is the list that I came up with.
New York Knicks- Jared Jefferies- I'm sure the Knicks would love to move him. I'm also not sure how durable he is and if he could even return to the defense he was once "known" for. Plus how much do we want to help the Knicks in 2010? A deal that could work would be Scalabrine, O'bryant, and Sam. Sam would be cut and back in 30 days.
Milwaukee Bucks- Charlie Villanueva- He does have great size. And has some offensive game. Problem I'm not sure how much he brings on the defensive side of the ball. A deal that could work is Scalabrine and BBD. Of course a pick would most likely need to be included by the Celtics as well.
Charlotte Bobcats- Jared Dudley- A local favorite that is a hustle guy. Shouldn't cost a whole lot, but is no where near the vet leadership you got from Posey last season. Dudley could come at the cost of BBD and Pruitt. I think a second round pick would need to be included from the Bobcats.
Minnesota Timberwolves- Rodney Carney- Another guy who has some offensive game. Not really sure how much defense he could bring to the team. Another issue is a young guy. Carney has a harder salary to move. It would take a O'Bryant and Pruitt or Walker to get the deal done and I'm not sure how much that benefits the Celtics.
Oklahoma City Thunder- Damien Wilkins- A guy who seems to need a new team. Has had success in the past. Is really having a horrible offensive season so far this year. Salary wise Scalabrine matches Damien. However the C's would have to include a pick or a Pruitt/BBD.
Los Angeles Clippers- Mardy Collins- Known coming out of college for his defense. Really has struggled offensively so far in the NBA. Collins can't be moved until the 21st of January. A deal of O'bryant or BBD for Collins works salary wise.
Personally I think the best deal for the Celtics would be the Knicks deal. Of course the Celtics would need to know Jefferies is healthy. This would then provide a defensive minded guy off the bench. That can at least play against these bigger forwards. Now he lacks the outside shooting of Posey. But I do believe his offense is better than what people give him credit for.
Anybody interested in any of these scenarios? Or did I miss anybody?

Re: Where to find another James Posey?
- greenbeans
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
Dudley would be PERFECT
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
sunshine:
Last year, Posey logged about 10 mpg at SF, and 12 mpg at PF.
As a backup SF, Ray Allen and Tony Allen are doing better than Posey did last year.
Check out my NET PER thread after 18 games that I just posted.
Tony and Ray are playing phenomenally, much better than Posey last year.
As a backup PF, Powe is actually better, and when mobility is needed, Scalabrine is not as big a dropoff as you might think.
The two biggest problems that I see for the Celtics are not backup SF,
which Ray Allen, Tony Allen and Brian Scalabrine have done great with.
I think backup C is a huge drop off in talent for the Celtics
(Glen Davis), and if someone thinks that they can argue that
Leon Powe has been playing backup C,
realize that Powe would be backing up Garnett if the Celtics
had a real backup C,
and Glen Davis would be waving a towel from the bench.
The other big need is a 5th guard on the active roster that can
contribute meaningfully.
Right now, Tony Allen and Ray Allen log time at backup SF,
and Rondo and House cover PG.
For days when one or two of those guys are off,
a 5th guard that can score and protect the ball (a bench scorer)
is needed more than a backup SF.
The Celtics, when healthy, are able to cover backup SF.
They can't avoid Glen Davis' contributions, because there is no one else to give that 20 minutes to.
And, although it may not seem apparent now,
come the playoffs, the Celtics are going to wish they had a 5th guard
that can put the ball threw the hoop, and hopefully dribble it as well.
Last year, Posey logged about 10 mpg at SF, and 12 mpg at PF.
As a backup SF, Ray Allen and Tony Allen are doing better than Posey did last year.
Check out my NET PER thread after 18 games that I just posted.
Tony and Ray are playing phenomenally, much better than Posey last year.
As a backup PF, Powe is actually better, and when mobility is needed, Scalabrine is not as big a dropoff as you might think.
The two biggest problems that I see for the Celtics are not backup SF,
which Ray Allen, Tony Allen and Brian Scalabrine have done great with.
I think backup C is a huge drop off in talent for the Celtics
(Glen Davis), and if someone thinks that they can argue that
Leon Powe has been playing backup C,
realize that Powe would be backing up Garnett if the Celtics
had a real backup C,
and Glen Davis would be waving a towel from the bench.
The other big need is a 5th guard on the active roster that can
contribute meaningfully.
Right now, Tony Allen and Ray Allen log time at backup SF,
and Rondo and House cover PG.
For days when one or two of those guys are off,
a 5th guard that can score and protect the ball (a bench scorer)
is needed more than a backup SF.
The Celtics, when healthy, are able to cover backup SF.
They can't avoid Glen Davis' contributions, because there is no one else to give that 20 minutes to.
And, although it may not seem apparent now,
come the playoffs, the Celtics are going to wish they had a 5th guard
that can put the ball threw the hoop, and hopefully dribble it as well.
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
- ParticleMan
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
How about in Utah, a guy named Bill Walker.
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
Bill Walker is a nutcase.
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
Is Renaldo Balkman a 3 or a 4? He's not getting much time in Denver and he's young/cheap.
Jeffries would be ok, but not worth losing cap flexibility.
Jeffries would be ok, but not worth losing cap flexibility.
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
I'm not sure there's a single match-up in the NBA where I'd prefer ay of the guys in the OP to TA. Maybe Deng, Marion and AK-47, but that's it. For every single other situation, I'd definitely rather have TA out there. So I guess I'm not sure how much of an effort we really need to make to get some new guy for 3 teams, none of which are in our division. And more to the point, if this were actually a concern, why couldn't Doc just leave Pierce in until the big SF hit the bench?
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
sunshine:
Here is the post that I referenced that backed up my reasoning.
Celtic NET PER AFTER 18 Games
NET PER is your PER minus the PER of the man that you are guarding.
+10.5 Ray Allen
+08.9 Tony Allen
+08.5 Kevin Garnett
+04.8 Paul Pierce
+03.6 Rajon Rondo
+ 01.3 Leon Powe
-00.7 Kendrick Perkins
-01.2 Eddie House
-09.7 Glen Davis (Huge dropoff from the top 8 players, backup C clearly biggest need)
-10.4 Brian Scalabrine
-13.3 Patrick O'Bryant (wishing, and hoping, and thinking, and dreaming)
-20.9 Gabe Pruitt (5th Guard (Bench Scorer) second biggest need)
-42.2 Bill Walker (not needed at SF if Pierce, Ray, Tony and Scal are healthy)
Obviously, the Celtics do need another SF in case Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, or Tony Allen are going to miss a game (and in some cases Scal), but that would not be a regular Rotation Player. It would be someone needed only when Pierce or one of the Allens are out.
Although Danny may at some point get that person, it is lower priority than
1. Backup C (making Davis the 3rd string C)
2. 5th Guard (replacing Pruitt)
3. Reserve SF (for when either Pierce, Ray or Tony Allen is out)
Here is the post that I referenced that backed up my reasoning.
Celtic NET PER AFTER 18 Games
NET PER is your PER minus the PER of the man that you are guarding.
+10.5 Ray Allen
+08.9 Tony Allen
+08.5 Kevin Garnett
+04.8 Paul Pierce
+03.6 Rajon Rondo
+ 01.3 Leon Powe
-00.7 Kendrick Perkins
-01.2 Eddie House
-09.7 Glen Davis (Huge dropoff from the top 8 players, backup C clearly biggest need)
-10.4 Brian Scalabrine
-13.3 Patrick O'Bryant (wishing, and hoping, and thinking, and dreaming)
-20.9 Gabe Pruitt (5th Guard (Bench Scorer) second biggest need)
-42.2 Bill Walker (not needed at SF if Pierce, Ray, Tony and Scal are healthy)
Obviously, the Celtics do need another SF in case Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, or Tony Allen are going to miss a game (and in some cases Scal), but that would not be a regular Rotation Player. It would be someone needed only when Pierce or one of the Allens are out.
Although Danny may at some point get that person, it is lower priority than
1. Backup C (making Davis the 3rd string C)
2. 5th Guard (replacing Pruitt)
3. Reserve SF (for when either Pierce, Ray or Tony Allen is out)
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
Really, TA only needs to be able to match up with bench players at the 3 for the most part, so LBJ and his ilk, shouldn't be that big of a problem.
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
I agree this is a big need, last night wallace killed us and tonight it was lewis. giddens or walker possibly could help if they progress fast enough but it would be nice to have a legit 6-8 guy who can defend. Bring back justin reed!
"Now, there's a steal by Bird..!"
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
I wouldn't want another Posey screwing up the offense by jacking up 6 3's per quarter, turning the Celtics into a jump shooting team. As far as backup small forwards Boston could acquire..... I don't know. Let's sign Darius Miles! ^_^
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
ParticleMan wrote:How about in Utah, a guy named Bill Walker.
Agreed,
The guy is exactly what we need off the bench. But, We really don't need him yet. We are 14-2. So, We let him get some PT in the D league. While we give his PT to guys like Scal and Baby to try and increase their trade value. Deal or no deal. I think Walker is in the rotation at some point this year.
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
- Dirty Water
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?

Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
Ghost of the Garden wrote::wave: <--Tony Allen
The problem is when both TA and Ray are in the game at the same time. They can be a defensive mismatch against a bigger SF. We are only talking like 5-10 minutes a night. But It would be nice to have someone other than Scal trying to play backup SF. Scal is a PF. Not a very good one. But, Definitely a better PF than a SF.
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
- rambo_ortega
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
I completely agree in adding that SF. In reality i want these following SF's in this order
damien wilkins - strong, long, athletic and a capable 3pt shooter/scorer
jared dudley - big and strong who can play both forward spots for us
jared jeffries - he is really long, 6'11 guy who can play from 2-5 and a known defender with respectable shooting. he comes more expensive though we'll be giving up scal
rodney carney - cheap young sf who is long, athletic and a capable scorer. although we would have to give up maybe pruitt and walker to get him coz minny needs a wing after losing brewer
damien wilkins - strong, long, athletic and a capable 3pt shooter/scorer
jared dudley - big and strong who can play both forward spots for us
jared jeffries - he is really long, 6'11 guy who can play from 2-5 and a known defender with respectable shooting. he comes more expensive though we'll be giving up scal
rodney carney - cheap young sf who is long, athletic and a capable scorer. although we would have to give up maybe pruitt and walker to get him coz minny needs a wing after losing brewer

Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
I agree that an SF is a bigger priority than another C or PG, if we are unsure of Walker's ability to contribute by the end of the season. I don't think we need a great SF, but a serviceable player when matchups and other circumstances call for.
Of names mentioned in this thread though - I'd be okay with Dudley, but don't think the Bobcats give him up for cheap. Even if they did, I'm not extremely happy with Dudley. Not a great long range shooter and not necessarily a good enough defensive player to really make up for that relative to what we're looking for. And no vet experience, so if Walker is looking good I view Dudley as worthless.
I'd love Balkman if a deal could be pulled off. High energy dirty work type player that can finish near the rim. Solid rebounder and has the potential to be an outstanding defender (easily better than Posey), and would be locked up cheap through next season as well. No outside shot though, so he'd sorta be a SF/PF version of Tony. That makes him less than ideal, but he's a guy I couldn't pass up on and could be used in place of TA when a matchup required it (or in place of Scal when we suddenly need extra front court depth). Denver needs a back-up C. If we were to trade Glen Davis, we would need a back-up C. If we were to trade Powe, Balkman could replace his role, but I'm not sold we want to give up Powe for a role player like Balkman. I could support a Baby/POB for Balkman/Samb deal, although by all objective accounts Samb isn't ready for minutes and he's unrestricted next offseason anyway....but he's got a ton of potential add Clifford Ray perhaps he can contribute by the end of the season? That trade would have to wait a bit with Samb included I think, anyway. And for the record, I like Baby, that deal wouldn't be a no brainer to me.
Other guys mentioned in this thread...I'd rather just sign DMiles after freeing a roster spot, or even Linton Johnson (who I must be wrong about because its getting pretty obvious that nobody thinks much of his game across the league).
Of names mentioned in this thread though - I'd be okay with Dudley, but don't think the Bobcats give him up for cheap. Even if they did, I'm not extremely happy with Dudley. Not a great long range shooter and not necessarily a good enough defensive player to really make up for that relative to what we're looking for. And no vet experience, so if Walker is looking good I view Dudley as worthless.
I'd love Balkman if a deal could be pulled off. High energy dirty work type player that can finish near the rim. Solid rebounder and has the potential to be an outstanding defender (easily better than Posey), and would be locked up cheap through next season as well. No outside shot though, so he'd sorta be a SF/PF version of Tony. That makes him less than ideal, but he's a guy I couldn't pass up on and could be used in place of TA when a matchup required it (or in place of Scal when we suddenly need extra front court depth). Denver needs a back-up C. If we were to trade Glen Davis, we would need a back-up C. If we were to trade Powe, Balkman could replace his role, but I'm not sold we want to give up Powe for a role player like Balkman. I could support a Baby/POB for Balkman/Samb deal, although by all objective accounts Samb isn't ready for minutes and he's unrestricted next offseason anyway....but he's got a ton of potential add Clifford Ray perhaps he can contribute by the end of the season? That trade would have to wait a bit with Samb included I think, anyway. And for the record, I like Baby, that deal wouldn't be a no brainer to me.
Other guys mentioned in this thread...I'd rather just sign DMiles after freeing a roster spot, or even Linton Johnson (who I must be wrong about because its getting pretty obvious that nobody thinks much of his game across the league).
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
- IEcelticfan
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
how much would we had to sign magette for? the mle? yeah he'd be a very good scoring option off the bench - but would he accept that role? - and more importantly, what kind of defensive player is he? i'd rather have TA and the team's continuity. i'm still hopin that DA goes after camby (clips already has kaman & zbo), if not pj or joe smith in the 2nd half to shore up our frontcourt.
another dream: is the Matrix gonna be a FA this offseason? what if he opens up his eyes and sees that his chances are narrowing once he got out of Phx and signs for cheap with the Celts 2-3 yrs down the line (presuming ray2 isnt resigned or has been traded)? cmon now, here's your chance to go after that ring with PP, KG, rondo, et al. he's another long, defensive-minded player.
ok, i'll wake up now.
another dream: is the Matrix gonna be a FA this offseason? what if he opens up his eyes and sees that his chances are narrowing once he got out of Phx and signs for cheap with the Celts 2-3 yrs down the line (presuming ray2 isnt resigned or has been traded)? cmon now, here's your chance to go after that ring with PP, KG, rondo, et al. he's another long, defensive-minded player.
ok, i'll wake up now.
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
My pick would be Travis Outlaw. We don`t have the pieces to get him but I think he would be great here. I do think a back up SF who can guard big SF`s and quick PF`s is a necessity.
Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
Travis Outlaw would be great. However like you said we just don't have the pieces to get that deal done. They need a pg and I'm sure Gabe Pruitt is not the guy they are dreaming about getting.
Jammer very good posts. I still think this team has some bad matchups when Paul Pierce needs to come off the court. They just don't have the size and Veal does not have the quickness.
As for backup center I'm still holding out hope that PJ Brown decides to suit up, Joe Smith gets a buyout, or Zo gets healthy.
Jammer very good posts. I still think this team has some bad matchups when Paul Pierce needs to come off the court. They just don't have the size and Veal does not have the quickness.
As for backup center I'm still holding out hope that PJ Brown decides to suit up, Joe Smith gets a buyout, or Zo gets healthy.

Re: Where to find another James Posey?
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Re: Where to find another James Posey?
I do think we have an issue - not with a Posey type but with a bigger (6'8") kind of defender. Shane Battier would be nice. I also agree that backup center is our most pressing issue because BBD is terrible and POB is worse then that!
My firm hope is that the fat boys - Scalabrine and BBD are not our endgame. Danny spoke about how he thought the C's needed to become more athletic after being tested by Atlanta and Cleveland. But now we have those two guys in our rotation? Ugly.
My firm hope is that the fat boys - Scalabrine and BBD are not our endgame. Danny spoke about how he thought the C's needed to become more athletic after being tested by Atlanta and Cleveland. But now we have those two guys in our rotation? Ugly.