Reality Check - Kerr and Porter Are Not the Problem

[asubennett]

Although I am every bit as frustrated as you with our teams performance this year, I feel strongly that the bulk of our problems are being heaped on the shoulders of Kerr and Porter unfairly.

Point #1 : Last season nearly as many people were unhappy with Dantoni as they are right now with Porter.

We were screaming about his short rotation.
We were screaming about his lack of defense implemented.
We were screaming about our teams mental toughness.
We were screaming about big lead after big lead lost.
We were screaming about our rebounding.
We were screaming about a LOT OF THINGS LAST SEASON JUST AS WE ARE THIS SEASON - Will elaborate on this more in a bit

Point #2 : The only real bad GM move Kerr has made is trade for Shaq.

-Lopez was a good pick. He is the type of team first / defensive minded player we need. I worry that our veterans apparent disrespect for Porter will stunt his development though.

-Dragic has not panned out yet but its been 20 games. Ask the Spurs if they were happy with Beno Udrich for 4 seasons. Now ask the Kings how he is playing. You can ask that same question about many European players drafted into the NBA.

Point #3 : Porter as a player was as tough and professional as they come. As a coach I would not expect anything less.

Point #4 : Kerr is a class act and I am ASU alum so I have a reason to hate him. A very smart player who always made the right decisions and was in the right spaces.

THIS SEASONS OBSERVATIONS:

1) Kerr brought Porter in to change the culture of this team and franchise. His JOB was to change our team for all of the reasons that we grew tired of Dantoni last season. Short rotation, no defense, mental toughness, big leads lost.

2) The players were very optimistic about Porters approach. STAT said "our last coach never talked about defense" so this will be good. He said " I want to be like Ron Artest" He said "I want to be the best player in the NBA" Everyone sounded hyped up about playing more than 7. About taking the ball out of Nash's hands every time down court.

3) All of the above happened but a strange phenomenon is occurring. THE PLAYERS ARE UNABLE TO RESPOND -

We don't have players that can play defense. We don't have players that can box out and rebound. We don't have disciplined, fundamentally sound players outside of Nash and Diaw

Last Season that was OK because D'ant's system masked those flaws and highlighted the gleam of our raw offensive speed, athleticism and finishing skills. - VERY FUN TO WATCH ALL SEASON - MADDENING TO WATCH FAIL TO THE BORING SPURS SEASON AFTER SEASON

Nash - Obvious offensive talent, obvious defensive liabilities.
Bell - Good Shooter, Avg Defender, Terrible Ball Handler Finisher
Barnes - Avg Shooter, Avg Defender (Although seems great on our team), Avg Ball Handler
Amare - Good Shooter, Poor Defender, Poor Ball Handler, Great finisher
Shaq - Terrible Shooter, Poor Defender, Avg Ball Handler, Good Finisher
Barbosa- Good Shooter, Poor Defender, Avg ball Handler, Good Finisher
Diaw - Good Shooter, Good Defender, Good Ball Handler, Avg Finisher (Could he be our best all around player?)
Hill - Good Shooter, Good Defender, Good Ball Handler, Avg Finisher

Rather than Blame Porter I blame the players. You can blame Kerr for changing our culture, you can Blame Porter for changing our offense and having no impact on our defense. I blame our roster and our players.

Its time for a shake up. We need it. Porter needs it. Kerr needs it. I want to be a defensive team. I want to efficient on offense.

Porters offense is getting us great shots (not flashy shots) but great shots evidenced by our High FG%. Porters offense is not creating the turnovers- that is our players. So if the players do not want to take responsibility for their play ship thier asses out and bring in guys who will get on board with Porter.

Lets go Suns. Wake up tonight against the Jazz and build on that or else blow it up.

[rsavaj]

Let's just say I disagree with you on a lot of points. I'd make a rebuttal right now, but I have 5000 words worth of term papers to write

[toucansma]

Well I agree its always going to come down to the players. It is Porter that is maximizing our talents. Most of the reason we are even in games at this point is Steve Nash doing everything he can (he has to force so much, turnovers are crazy). Porter came in and for some reason decided to get rid of everything Mike did well with the team. Why massively change the offense? I can see adding some halfcourt sets to help during the playoffs, but the playoffs is not pure halfcourt. That does not require calling set plays everytime down the floor or changing spacing down low.

You are also mistaken that everyone was sick of D'Antoni. I along with a contingent, wanted him back 100%. My concern was getting a proper backup pg and another backup SF/SG to help with Marion gone.

Dragic I am not flipping out because he is rookie. I am more disappointed that we do not have a backup since relying on a rookie for a championship "caliber" team. I would be happier if they actually took Hill or Boris and made them the backup pg at this point. I do not understand why Porter does that.

My problem with Porter is that he just does not seem to get it. It is not just about flashy shots, but about simple shots. How many dunks, uncontested layups, and wide open shots did 7 SSOL seem to create. He does not have that knack or aura (at the moment) that the players want to go to war with him. He has taken a team that was good last year and made them average at best. Instead of making them feel good and have fun, he has taken all of that away with the new culture. He needs to let up and make them enjoy coming to work.

Either way I still root for the Suns no matter how maddening or bad they get. Go Suns!!!!!

[asubennett]

I dont give a damn about our players fun factor. They are playing a children's game and being paid millions of dollars for it.

All I care about is winning a 'ship and it was clear we were not going to make that happen with SSOL. We have had glaring defensive problems for 5 seasons now and I am tired of it.

Celtics - great defense
Spurs - great defense
Bulls - great defense
Pistons - great defense
Lakers - played solid defense when they needed to during their run
Heat - played great defense that one season.

It is time for the players to give Porter a chance and if they dont they need to go.

[Togo]

So what you are saying is....it is Kerr and Porter's fault?!? You have me perplexed!

[TXSun]

too long to read, so just let me know who you think is at fault here. thanks.

[Phx4Life08]

I don't mean any disrespect but i don't understand the logic behind your post. Please clarify one aspect. You admitt that "We don't have players that can play defense. We don't have players that can box out and rebound. We don't have disciplined, fundamentally sound players outside of Nash and Diaw." So obviously you are saying we don't have the personel to run the type of system Porter and Kerr are building. This is were i don't understand how you can't give them at least part of the blame. If you had a corvet then sold the parts and replaced some with pieces from a tractor would you be mad at the tractor for not working properly? No, you would be amazed at the stupidity of the mechanic who thought they could use tractor parts in a corvet. That is the problem here. Our FO isn't using the pieces we have in the right capacity. Thus our coaches and FO should have evaluated the weakness of each player/our whole roster and realized that without a change in personel this new system would never work. I agree with you that Nash and Amare are defensive liabilities. So we had two logical options. a) build a defensive minded team by adding defensive minded players through trade/FA or b) Utilize the parts we have to compliment their strengths and mask their weaknesses like Dantoni did. Instead we Kerrvball chose option c) put our corvet parts into a tractor system and hope to god the thing doesnt blow up. Sry if im venting a little, i am obviously very passionate about this team.

I enjoyed reading your post you made some interesting comments. For example the majority of suns fans issues with Dantoni. However we wanted a coach who did the things you listed in your part 1. Not a coach that would try to retool our offense by breaking something that didnt need to be fixed.

[asubennett]

too long to read, so just let me know who you think is at fault here. thanks.

Players and your welcome lazy.

[Frank Lee]

Perhaps the underlying Genius of Kerr is to expose the defeciencies of Stat in order to force his hand...put up or shut up...put up or pack up. I would imagine he pegged him for what he is yrs ago... an incredibly gifted one dimensional offensive player with an enormous ego... It would be the only way the could ship him out and then not have to worry about re-inking him in a bidding war. Shades of the bad taste JJ left. What better way to trade him ?...per his own request.





nah

[asubennett]

I don't mean any disrespect but i don't understand the logic behind your post. Please clarify one aspect. You admitt that "We don't have players that can play defense. We don't have players that can box out and rebound. We don't have disciplined, fundamentally sound players outside of Nash and Diaw." So obviously you are saying we don't have the personel to run the type of system Porter and Kerr are building. This is were i don't understand how you can't give them at least part of the blame. If you had a corvet then sold the parts and replaced some with pieces from a tractor would you be mad at the tractor for not working properly? No, you would be amazed at the stupidity of the mechanic who thought they could use tractor parts in a corvet. That is the problem here. Our FO isn't using the pieces we have in the right capacity. Thus our coaches and FO should have evaluated the weakness of each player/our whole roster and realized that without a change in personel this new system would never work. I agree with you that Nash and Amare are defensive liabilities. So we had two logical options. a) build a defensive minded team by adding defensive minded players through trade/FA or b) Utilize the parts we have to compliment their strengths and mask their weaknesses like Dantoni did. Instead we Kerrvball chose option c) put our corvet parts into a tractor system and hope to god the thing doesnt blow up. Sry if im venting a little, i am obviously very passionate about this team.

I enjoyed reading your post you made some interesting comments. For example the majority of suns fans issues with Dantoni. However we wanted a coach who did the things you listed in your part 1. Not a coach that would try to retool our offense by breaking something that didnt need to be fixed.

Its passion that keeps us all posting here. I was a 15 year old kid back in '93 when Paxson broke my heart and hopes game 6 sitting in the stands. Tickets were a birthday present that neither of my parents could have afforded but somehow did. I get the passion part.

Now in response to your post. You are right you dont build a tractor with ferrari parts. Problem I have with that analogy is this:

Every player outside of Nash and Shaq has the athleticism to be both brilliant on offense and serviceable to very good on defense. IT all starts with "WANT TO" and our players do not want to.

So either they start wanting to or they get shipped out. That is my honest opinion.

Amare is devastating on offense but he is equally devastating to our own team on defense. Problem is Joe Schmo grabbing a fundamental offensive board and getting an easy put back lay up does not make the highlight reel. But an Amare dunk over three people does.

Fortunately for us his public perception and very tempting "what if" factor.... what if he starts playing defense. what if he starts caring about his teammates. What if he focuses..... All of that will fetch us some great talent in return. Let him be some other teams enigma if he doesnt want to get on board with a team.

[KJ7]

It's just way too overly simplistic to say "I blame the players". The reality is everyone needs to share some blame otherwise we'll never move forward.

You can't just give the coach a "get out of jail free" card by saying that it's the players who need to take more responsibility.

Rather than Blame Porter I blame the players. You can blame Kerr for changing our culture, you can Blame Porter for changing our offense and having no impact on our defense. I blame our roster and our players.

Porter knew what he was inheriting when he got here. It was his job to integrate everyone into a system where we addressed our deficiencies without destroying our strengths. Do you honestly think he has done that? I don't!

If Porter was interviewed and he said "well I can't do anything with this bunch of players we are going to have to turn everyone over" do you honestly think he would've been given the job? Instead he put his case forward and mustve been at least a little persuasive to get the job. He sure wasn't saying "yeah, I think we can stumble into the play-offs and have an early exit" did he?

He came here knowing full well what the roster was and knowing that he had to make it work. No point blaming the roster now! Not like we were close to making any moves. It was obvious to everyone that we weren't making any drastic moves anytime soon.

Work with it or don't take the job!

Its time for a shake up. We need it. Porter needs it. Kerr needs it. I want to be a defensive team. I want to efficient on offense.

Porters offense is getting us great shots (not flashy shots) but great shots evidenced by our High FG%. Porters offense is not creating the turnovers- that is our players. So if the players do not want to take responsibility for their play ship thier asses out and bring in guys who will get on board with Porter.

So his offense is getting us great shots but it's not his fault about the TO's and our poor D.

See how ridiculous that sounds? Everything good about our team is Porter's doing, and everything bad is the players doing.

That's just clearly not reality. The reality is that everyone needs to take responsibility and Porter is not exempt from this (neither is Kerr).

[asubennett]

It's just way too overly simplistic to say "I blame the players". The reality is everyone needs to share some blame otherwise we'll never move forward.

You can't just give the coach a "get out of jail free" card by saying that it's the players who need to take more responsibility.

Rather than Blame Porter I blame the players. You can blame Kerr for changing our culture, you can Blame Porter for changing our offense and having no impact on our defense. I blame our roster and our players.

Porter knew what he was inheriting when he got here. It was his job to integrate everyone into a system where we addressed our deficiencies without destroying our strengths. Do you honestly think he has done that? I don't!

If Porter was interviewed and he said "well I can't do anything with this bunch of players we are going to have to turn everyone over" do you honestly think he would've been given the job? Instead he put his case forward and mustve been at least a little persuasive to get the job. He sure wasn't saying "yeah, I think we can stumble into the play-offs and have an early exit" did he?

He came here knowing full well what the roster was and knowing that he had to make it work. No point blaming the roster now! Not like we were close to making any moves. It was obvious to everyone that we weren't making any drastic moves anytime soon.

Work with it or don't take the job!

Its time for a shake up. We need it. Porter needs it. Kerr needs it. I want to be a defensive team. I want to efficient on offense.

Porters offense is getting us great shots (not flashy shots) but great shots evidenced by our High FG%. Porters offense is not creating the turnovers- that is our players. So if the players do not want to take responsibility for their play ship thier asses out and bring in guys who will get on board with Porter.

So his offense is getting us great shots but it's not his fault about the TO's and our poor D.

See how ridiculous that sounds? Everything good about our team is Porter's doing, and everything bad is the players doing.

That's just clearly not reality. The reality is that everyone needs to take responsibility and Porter is not exempt from this (neither is Kerr).

I dont know if Porter is doing good or bad and neither can anyone else 20 games into the season because the only that IS clear is the players have not bought into Porters system.

So in a sense you are right - Either the players or the coach has to go if the players dont ever buy into what the coach is selling. Becasue our players have not been able to win with previous methods I vote for letting Porter stay until our players either buy in or we get new players.

Tonight is a perfect example of players dictating their own futures. Amare grabbed 4 rebounds the other night and then tonight just decides to grab 20 rebounds. That is crazy. He shoud be ripping down 12 every night. with more games nearing 20 than not. Clearly he knows how and hast talent do so, but Porter can make him do it no matter how much he asks.

[KJ7]

Well we can only go off results and performance and at the moment he is doing a poor job IMO.

The thing is you see things way too simplistically. You think it's just all player effort whether a player has 20pts or 15 assists or 10 rebounds ... It clearly has more to do with it then *just* that. Yes it's a factor but so are tactics. There's a reason why some players avg'ed crazy stats under D'Antoni and went elsewhere and didn't do much. That's what you're refusing to acknowledge.

What's easier to do?

1) Turnover all our players some of which are on max contracts

OR

2) Get rid of a coach who hasn't been able to sell his system to a bunch of veterans

I know which is easier IMO. The reality is this team has until 2010. We aren't making any drastic moves before then. So if they don't buy Porter's system then get rid of him and bring in someone who will be more persuasive because like it or not we have another 1 3/4 seasons of watching this team. We aren't just turning everyone over because we got a coach in who can't integrate his system into our team.

[mkot]

So what's the coach's job then? Just sit there and then expect the player to fight for him every night? It's hard to play hard when the system isn't legit and the coach isn't coaching anything. I mean, he coaches NOTHING, he can't even figure out how to make a sub during a quarter. Sure, they are getting paid to work. They SHOULD play hard and as a team, but you've had a job as long as I, and you know that getting paid isn't enough to make you care about the job. This isn't to defend players under-performing, but you need to respect your organization, your boss and your coach in order to do your best on a consistent basis. If the coach doesn't know what the F he's doing, shows no fire/passion on the sideline (he wasn't even look upset to the loss to the Mavs the other night!) and refer the practice court as an "science room", it's hard for the player to motivate themselves to give it all every night. They're just going through the motions, joylessly.

And it's not like they aren't playing hard either. Raja plays as hard, he's just not getting the spacing/wide-open look he enjoyed in the SSOL system, and the fact that he had lost a step. Nash plays hard too, it's just that in Porter's "system" his role diminished into a bring the ball up PG. It's frustrating that we have the best shooter in the game but Porter's "system" doesn't give him any open look or green light to shoot it. Boris has been playing his best ball since the 04-05 season. Barnes is ok. LB get a pass because his family issue (he scored 25+ point tonight tho). Shaq is playing great except that he can't play 2 games in 4 nights. Really the only guy that's not playing hard recently is Amare. It's impossible for a guy as big and athletic as he is can't get at least 10 rebound. He's simply not trying. If Porter is smart, he should call him out on his BS, give him some tough love (like what MikeD did sometimes with him). But he won't. Because he has nothing to show to back himself up. Managing players is part of a coach's job too, he failed too.

I blame the mess we are at in this order:

Sarver > Kerr > Porter

[Phx4Life08]

I don't mean any disrespect but i don't understand the logic behind your post. Please clarify one aspect. You admitt that "We don't have players that can play defense. We don't have players that can box out and rebound. We don't have disciplined, fundamentally sound players outside of Nash and Diaw." So obviously you are saying we don't have the personel to run the type of system Porter and Kerr are building. This is were i don't understand how you can't give them at least part of the blame. If you had a corvet then sold the parts and replaced some with pieces from a tractor would you be mad at the tractor for not working properly? No, you would be amazed at the stupidity of the mechanic who thought they could use tractor parts in a corvet. That is the problem here. Our FO isn't using the pieces we have in the right capacity. Thus our coaches and FO should have evaluated the weakness of each player/our whole roster and realized that without a change in personel this new system would never work. I agree with you that Nash and Amare are defensive liabilities. So we had two logical options. a) build a defensive minded team by adding defensive minded players through trade/FA or b) Utilize the parts we have to compliment their strengths and mask their weaknesses like Dantoni did. Instead we Kerrvball chose option c) put our corvet parts into a tractor system and hope to god the thing doesnt blow up. Sry if im venting a little, i am obviously very passionate about this team.

I enjoyed reading your post you made some interesting comments. For example the majority of suns fans issues with Dantoni. However we wanted a coach who did the things you listed in your part 1. Not a coach that would try to retool our offense by breaking something that didnt need to be fixed.

Its passion that keeps us all posting here. I was a 15 year old kid back in '93 when Paxson broke my heart and hopes game 6 sitting in the stands. Tickets were a birthday present that neither of my parents could have afforded but somehow did. I get the passion part.

Now in response to your post. You are right you dont build a tractor with ferrari parts. Problem I have with that analogy is this:

Every player outside of Nash and Shaq has the athleticism to be both brilliant on offense and serviceable to very good on defense. IT all starts with "WANT TO" and our players do not want to.

So either they start wanting to or they get shipped out. That is my honest opinion.

Amare is devastating on offense but he is equally devastating to our own team on defense. Problem is Joe Schmo grabbing a fundamental offensive board and getting an easy put back lay up does not make the highlight reel. But an Amare dunk over three people does.

Fortunately for us his public perception and very tempting "what if" factor.... what if he starts playing defense. what if he starts caring about his teammates. What if he focuses..... All of that will fetch us some great talent in return. Let him be some other teams enigma if he doesnt want to get on board with a team.

Your right on about that "want to" attidude. Guys like Amare (as he showed tonight with his 20 rebounds), and LB really have the potential to become better defenders. For them its just about putting in the effort and taking the time to expand that aspect of their games.

[Frank Lee]

Players are expendable
Coaches are expendable
GMs are expendable (except when he is part owner)

The owner is the only one with control of his employment.


If we are going to be a defensive team, then by god, get some defensive players.

This is one time where Sh*t rolls uphill.

[JohnVancouver]

[quote="asubennett"] ...
We were screaming about big lead after big lead lost.

--- Funny to see the Knicks doing the same thing this year. They're letting big leads slip away just like we'd been doing the last couple of years.

[-SDU-]

TY to the opening post!

[BurningHeart]

...
We were screaming about big lead after big lead lost.

--- Funny to see the Knicks doing the same thing this year. They're letting big leads slip away just like we'd been doing the last couple of years.

The Suns have been giving up big leads WAY before D'Antoni came close to coaching the Suns.

EDIT: Like this one, for example. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basket ... s_suns_ap/

[AlciG]

...
We were screaming about big lead after big lead lost.

--- Funny to see the Knicks doing the same thing this year. They're letting big leads slip away just like we'd been doing the last couple of years.

At least they have leads to give up this year... that's a huge improvement for them compared to the last few years