GT: Charlotte @ Miami 7:30pm

[Flash3]

After pulling a sickie from work to watch this game...... I &**&^ well dislike those three gimps that pretend to be refs...... C'mon....... Did the NBA go to a place where 'special' people live and select 3 people that didn't have saliva dribbling down their chins and weren't crossed eyed and placed them in refs uniform.

D-Whistle.... The dude is a charity case, bail out after bail out. Unfortunately for us, he can really play..

Edit: apologies to people that live in homes where special people live, calling you a NBA ref is uncalled for, insulting and I'm sorry

[Felton for Pres]

You guys were doing so well about being consistant in the Felton bashing only to regress last night. For the record, Felton should be bashed. ~18% isn't even remotely tolerable but at least most (not all) of his shots were open and in the context of the offense. Why when DJ misses a gimme layup is the only comment "Wow. That's usually money for DJ." Uh, hello, that's usually money for a 5yr old!!! That miss was just as critical as JRich missing those free throws but he seemingly gets a pass. DJ also shot ~28% last night wish is only slightly better than putrid and had at least as many or more rushed shots than Ray. Felts had just shy of a 3:1 assist/to vs 1:1 for DJ.

I am not here to defend Felton for a subpar game. But given that he had to chase Mr. Untouchable around on defense all night, I think a subpar offensive game is expected. However, if he's tired, don't shoot. Its that simple.

Where is the DJ bashing? Anyone? Constistancy folks, that's all I ask.

[BigSlam]

1. Swish guarded Wade for much of the night, not Felts.
2. DJ at least looked like he belonged out there.
3. Felts stoned Okafor on many, many occasions and instead put up his own ill advised shots.
4. Felton is a 4th year player, DJ is a 21 game rookie.
5. Felts = -10 and DJ = -1

[Felton for Pres]

1. Swish guarded Wade for much of the night, not Felts.
2. DJ at least looked like he belonged out there.
3. Felts stoned Okafor on many, many occasions and instead put up his own ill advised shots.
4. Felton is a 4th year player, DJ is a 21 game rookie.
5. Felts = -10 and DJ = -1

1. Not sure about that but don't have any data to prove otherwise.
2. What exactly did DJ do that made you think he belonged? Was it the not playing defense part or the shooting 28% part?
3. Totally disagree again. Felts had 8 assists and the shots (other than 1 I remember) were not ill advised. Nobody got Mek the ball, including DJ. Blame should be shared on this point.
4. So being a rookie is an excuse for missing a gimme? I thought being a lottery pick meant something. You guys get on Felts for missing late game drives, at least his are in traffic.
5. Fair point, but certainly a function of being on the court with DWhistle more.

At some point I'll just accept the fact that objectivity is missing when it comes to Felton. A non-DJ example would be JRich missing two key FTs and generating no more than a sigh. And zero mention of Felton hitting his late FTs, despite his bad shooting night.

[Walt Cronkite]

3. Felts stoned Okafor on many, many occasions and instead put up his own ill advised shots.

This is the one for me. We want Felton to be a pass first, long term answer for us... LB type pg, but he ICES (0 fga in the 4th) the guy that got us back in the game when he was WIDE OPEN to take his own shot (which was obvious to everyone but himself) not "on" last night.

RAYMOND FELTON-YOU ARE NOT A SHOOTER. YOU ARE A PG. YOUR COURT VISION AND ATHLETICISM ARE SUPPOSED TO BE YOUR GREATEST ASSETS, NOT YOUR SUSPECT JUMPER OR FINISHING AT THE RIM SKILLS. PASS THE BALL TO THE HOT HAND, THAT'S YOUR JOB.

I don't want to read any "Felton had to score because Wallace was out." No he didn't. He needed to fulfill his role, not play hero. We have a plethora of wings we can go to that can cover for Wallace when he's out. Ammo did a great job, Dudley too. Felton needs to run the offense and he didn't do that last night. He regressed and the bashing came full force... just like it did when Okafor had a bad game against Cleveland, not that many would realize he's been AWESOME ON OFFENSE LATELY because no one's talking about it, because we want to minimalize it's significance in our communal memories because it's more fun to say he can't catch, or is soft, or is not worth his money, etc...

[spectre_]

^ Actually...didn't DJ play the entire 4th as PG?

[Felton for Pres]

Certainly most of the 4th, I don't know about all.

DJ took 14 shots to Felton's 11. Where is the "pass first" outrage towards him?

Like I said, inconsistent.

[spectre_]

Well, it really is Felton's fault...if he wants to be LB's quarterback that is. I didn't see the 3 consecutive "icings" being talked about here (and I made a point to watch "after"; never saw Mek really open after that), but as good a night as Mek was having we should have forced it into him at least 2 or 3 times there at the end.

Everyone should have...but I bet if asked Felton would take the blame.

[BigSlam]

1. Not sure about that but don't have any data to prove otherwise.
2. What exactly did DJ do that made you think he belonged? Was it the not playing defense part or the shooting 28% part?
3. Totally disagree again. Felts had 8 assists and the shots (other than 1 I remember) were not ill advised. Nobody got Mek the ball, including DJ. Blame should be shared on this point.
4. So being a rookie is an excuse for missing a gimme? I thought being a lottery pick meant something. You guys get on Felts for missing late game drives, at least his are in traffic.
5. Fair point, but certainly a function of being on the court with DWhistle more.

At some point I'll just accept the fact that objectivity is missing when it comes to Felton. A non-DJ example would be JRich missing two key FTs and generating no more than a sigh. And zero mention of Felton hitting his late FTs, despite his bad shooting night.

1. Swish "guarded" him for much of the 1st half and the 3rd, then Felts had him for some of the 3rd and the 4th (from what I remember!!)
2. He hit some clutch shots (a couple of 3's that really stood out), he looked to drive and attack in the 4th rather than just jack up J's, he turned the ball over twice in 26 mins - but one of them was when Ammo zigged instead of zagged. There is HUGE difference between DJ shooting the ball and Felts. When DJ shoots the ball it's a chance to go it. When Felts shoots the ball it's anyone's guess.
3. When you shoot the ball as badly as Felts does, you have a guy who is white hot and open and rather than getting him the ball you take your own shots, it's ill advised.
4. I would say that bing a kid playing in his 21st NBA game means we cut him some slack. If DJ misses that shot it's a suprise because he usually makes it. If Felts misses that shot it's just another day at the office. And you want to pull the "lottery card"? Well then, Felts was drafted 4 spots higher than DJ - so what's Felton's excuse?
5. Are you saying that Felton was on the court with Wade THAT much more than DJ was on the court with Wade which resulted in 9pt difference???

It's not that objectivity is missing. It's just that Felton's MO is pretty standard and it continues again and again. He's created an expectation. He has 1 or 2 REALLY great games together but then a month of bad games. We have continually made excuses for him but at some stage the excuses have to stop. Either he's great, he's good, he's average, he's below average or he's just plain bad and it's not because of coaches, team mates, position, what he had for breakfast, if he's getting the calls or not, if he is hurt or what ever else we come up with.

Swish missing two FT's might only get a sigh because he does SO much more. He helps us out SO much more. He doesn't hurt us nearly as much as others do. Does that make him being nervous at the line when it counts not matter? Not at all, but am I not about to crucify him on the bad when the good he does for us FAR out weighs any bad.

BTW - If all we can hang out hats on Felton's game last night was two made free throws then there is a lot mroe wrong with this picture than I thought.

[Felton for Pres]

I never said I was trying to defend Felton. In fact, I've said just the opposite. He doesn't deserve it after last night. I just find it borderline comical that the pass-first guy we drafted has been shoot first, shoot second and then pass and no one cares. Come on, he didn't look to drive to the rack except on the one he choked. Felton has been better at getting to the lane and finding open guys and that isn't even debatable. That doesn't mean his IS better at getting to the lane, but he's been doing much more and DJ 3pt attempts are a clear example of that.

As for JRich doing SO much more, what exactly is that? He's an excellent scorer, no question. Defense? Eh, never been a strong suit. Rebounding? Nope, should be though. Passing, not really. Felton may be a horrible shooter but he brings passing, defense and hustle every single game. But I guess that isn't sexy enough and therefore he should be singled out.

[BigSlam]

I didn't see the 3 consecutive "icings" being talked about here (and I made a point to watch "after"; never saw Mek really open after that).

There were three times in particular that Henry isolated when EO50 was wide open on the base, Felts had the ball and instead of making the pass, put up a shot. In one case, he didn't even look his way, even though EO50 had set the screen and rolled - so Felts HAD to know he was there (or maybe he just doesn't have the court awareness to see it?)

[BigSlam]

I just find it borderline comical that the pass-first guy we drafted has been shoot first, shoot second and then pass and no one cares.

Felton is averaging only 2 more assists per game but plays 7 more mins a game than DJ.

Felton has been better at getting to the lane and finding open guys and that isn't even debatable. That doesn't mean his IS better at getting to the lane, but he's been doing much more and DJ 3pt attempts are a clear example of that.

Felton might be able to get there, but he has NEVER been able to finish once there - short of the occasional circus shot that happens to fall. And while we are at at - they BOTH average 3.2 ft attempts per game showing they both take it to the rack. The big difference? Felton only hits 78% when he is there and DJ hits on 91%.

Feltons 3pt attempts per game = 2.1
DJ's 3pt attempts per game = 3.8
Feltons 3pt % = 29.6
DJ's 3pt % = 41.8

Even though there really isn't that big a difference in attempts, is there any wonder DJ takes 3's? At least he makes them. Our other point guard can't drop it in the ocean.

As for JRich doing SO much more, what exactly is that? He's an excellent scorer, no question. Defense? Eh, never been a strong suit. Rebounding? Nope, should be though. Passing, not really. Felton may be a horrible shooter but he brings passing, defense and hustle every single game. But I guess that isn't sexy enough and therefore he should be singled out

Righhhhhhhhhtttttttttt. Felts is more valuable and important to us than Swish is.

Swish digs us out of holes. Felton puts us there.

[spectre_]

I didn't see the 3 consecutive "icings" being talked about here (and I made a point to watch "after"; never saw Mek really open after that).

There were three times in particular that Henry isolated when EO50 was wide open on the base, Felts had the ball and instead of making the pass, put up a shot. In one case, he didn't even look his way, even though EO50 had set the screen and rolled - so Felts HAD to know he was there (or maybe he just doesn't have the court awareness to see it?)

In the 4th quarter?

Felton took 4 jumpshots in the 4th quarter. One was a chucked 3 at the end of the shot clock (6:00), another with the shot clock winding down (2:36, 4 seconds left), a 2pter he missed (1:57) and a 2 pter he made (1:45).

Are you talking about the last 3?

Far be it from me to argue with Henry Williams!

I don't think anyone looked for Mek in the 4th quarter, but I agree Felton should take the blame for that. DJ should too (think he took 6 shots in the 4th), but he's learning.

What blows my mind is that both PGs shoot as much as they do under LB...I'd never have guessed it. I also wonder why he didn't raise Cain about not feeding Mek; I doubt that he did since as far as I remember he didn't get it passed to him one single time.

[BigSlam]

LB said after the game that he thought everyone played really well.

[Felton for Pres]

Righhhhhhhhhtttttttttt. Felts is more valuable and important to us than Swish is.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't make any statement about who was more valuable or important. I was merely pointing out that there is more to the game than scoring.

Spectre is on point noting that the shot numbers for both PGs is high, particularly for an LB coached team.

[BigSlam]

[Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't make any statement about who was more valuable or important. I was merely pointing out that there is more to the game than scoring.

Sorry - that wasn't my intention, but I can see how you read it that way.

Agreed that there is more to scoring, but if you put the ball in Swish's hands and made him the point, I bet he'd average 6 assists a game too! And he's always been a strong rebounder for his position. But this is not about Felts Vs Swish (obviously).

Look, the Felton debate is going into it's 4th year. The fact that there is STILL debate about it after all this time should underline and full point the issue. I don't dislike the kid, I don't love him, I'm just frustrated as hell by him.

[Walt Cronkite]

Look, the Felton debate is going into it's 4th year. The fact that there is STILL debate about it after all this time should underline and full point the issue. I don't dislike the kid, I don't love him, I'm just frustrated as hell by him.

DING! DING! DING!

[fatlever]

i'm pretty sure that if wade broke into dudley's house tonight, loaded a virus on his laptop, spit in his milk, took a dump on his carpet, cleaned his ass with dudley's toothbrush and then crept into dudley's bedroom and punched dudley square in the face while dudley was sleeping, a referee would jump out of the closet and whistle a blocking foul on dudley.

[Paydro70]

A couple of points.
1) Felton passes more than Augustin by a decent margin... Felton is 17th in the NBA in assist rate (27.9%), DJ 34th (23.4%). They turn it over about the same amount, and use about the same number of possessions, so it's really not contestable right now that Felton is doing slightly better at distributing than Augustin.
2) Augustin is completely blowing Felton away at scoring. Felton is 168th in the NBA in eFG% (43.2%), Augustin 100th (49.8%). It gets much worse when you add in free throws; not only does Augustin get to the line considerably (not slightly) more (.328 fta/fga versus .262), but he shoots so much better from the stripe that TS% is kind of embarrassing. Augustin ranks 65th in the NBA (56.5%), equal with Tim Duncan and Andris Biedrins, Felton 170th (47.9%), equal with Baron Davis and Randy Foye.

I think it's reasonable to conclude from those numbers that Felton should be even more of a pass-first point guard, and that it is by all means acceptable for DJ to shoot much more than Felton does. Hell, after Emeka, he's the most effective scorer on the team.

[SteveMorrison15]

i'm pretty sure that if wade broke into dudley's house tonight, loaded a virus on his laptop, spit in his milk, took a dump on his carpet, cleaned his ass with dudley's toothbrush and then crept into dudley's bedroom and punched dudley square in the face while dudley was sleeping, a referee would jump out of the closet and whistle a blocking foul on dudley.

Whaaaaa? hahahah