Wittman Fired!! For real this time!!

[yojimbo]

Exactly. When MM was on Memphis, they spread the floor better. The way the Wolves clog the lane, it's harder for MM to get the room to operate. Once Al, et al learn to recognize when to clear out, he should get better opportunities to drive the lane.

[shrink]

Most free agents consider playing time when deciding where they want to sign.

Again, "consider playing time" is different than what I said, or what happened.

Billups and his agent demanded that he be guaranteed to be the starter next season, or he'd walk. Ex-All Star Terrell Brandon, who we'd spent 1/4 of our salary on, claimed he was coming back next season. I don't know what else there is to know about that ultimatum.

If you're the GM, do you:

a. bow to the ultimatum

b. lie to Billups

c. tell him the truth, that everyone has to earn their minutes?

Free agents get to make ultimatums, that's the great part about being a free agent. Fact is that the Wolves didn't sign him because they didn't want to give him Terrell Brandon's starting spot. I absolutely could understand that.... if Terrell Brandon was ever going to play again. I can't help thinking somebody should have known it was at least a possibility that Brandon would never play again.

Where do you come up with that line? I don't think anyone in management, teammate, or general half-aware Wolves fan didn't "know it was at least a possibility that Brandon would never play again."

Free agents, like anyone, can make whatever demands they want, but the question here is what the other side does. Management had three choices, a, b, c, that I Iisted. They were surely aware of the possibility that Brandon would never play again. But does management choose to follow a course where they give starting spots away regardless of play, the other players on the team, or the way that leaders lead a team? I think its destructive to an entire team to give away starting spots just because someone demands one. What do you say to a young player who's busting his ass on and off the court to achieve his dream of starting in the NBA? "Sorry, whatever you do, it doesn't matter -- we're giving the position to Billups?"

Every player on a team needs to earn his playing time. If I was McHale/Taylor, I'd tell Billups that, and its a little offensive he's trying to edge out his teammates in a backroom for money.

[Worm Guts]

Most free agents consider playing time when deciding where they want to sign.

Again, "consider playing time" is different than what I said, or what happened.

Billups and his agent demanded that he be guaranteed to be the starter next season, or he'd walk. Ex-All Star Terrell Brandon, who we'd spent 1/4 of our salary on, claimed he was coming back next season. I don't know what else there is to know about that ultimatum.

If you're the GM, do you:

a. bow to the ultimatum

b. lie to Billups

c. tell him the truth, that everyone has to earn their minutes?

Free agents get to make ultimatums, that's the great part about being a free agent. Fact is that the Wolves didn't sign him because they didn't want to give him Terrell Brandon's starting spot. I absolutely could understand that.... if Terrell Brandon was ever going to play again. I can't help thinking somebody should have known it was at least a possibility that Brandon would never play again.

Where do you come up with that line? I don't think anyone in management, teammate, or general half-aware Wolves fan didn't "know it was at least a possibility that Brandon would never play again."

Free agents, like anyone, can make whatever demands they want, but the question here is what the other side does. Management had three choices, a, b, c, that I Iisted. They were surely aware of the possibility that Brandon would never play again. But does management choose to follow a course where they give starting spots away regardless of play, the other players on the team, or the way that leaders lead a team? I think its destructive to an entire team to give away starting spots just because someone demands one. What do you say to a young player who's busting his ass on and off the court to achieve his dream of starting in the NBA? "Sorry, whatever you do, it doesn't matter -- we're giving the position to Billups?"

Every player on a team needs to earn his playing time. If I was McHale/Taylor, I'd tell Billups that, and its a little offensive he's trying to edge out his teammates in a backroom for money.

Detroit obviously had no problem with guaranteeing Billups a starting spot and it didn't cause any locker room strife. There was no one on the Wolves roster who was going to start over Billups except for Brandon. If the Wolves thought Brandon wouldn't come back, they should have just told Billups that he would be the starter, because he would have been.
I don't think the average fan knew at that point Brandon would never play again, Billups obviously didn't know. If management did, it makes the mistake of letting Billups walk even more glaring.

[C.lupus]

Different teammates, different offense, different coaches, a bunch of things are different.

Exactly. When MM was on Memphis, they spread the floor better. The way the Wolves clog the lane, it's harder for MM to get the room to operate. Once Al, et al learn to recognize when to clear out, he should get better opportunities to drive the lane.

Right. That was what I was getting at with my loaded question. Miller has proven under other systems that he can get his shots even with his lack of ability to break down the defender. The problem here is systemic, not Miller. The coach needs to draw up some plays designed to get him more shots and the players need to execute.

[Worm Guts]

Different teammates, different offense, different coaches, a bunch of things are different.

Exactly. When MM was on Memphis, they spread the floor better. The way the Wolves clog the lane, it's harder for MM to get the room to operate. Once Al, et al learn to recognize when to clear out, he should get better opportunities to drive the lane.

Right. That was what I was getting at with my loaded question. Miller has proven under other systems that he can get his shots even with his lack of ability to break down the defender. The problem here is systemic, not Miller. The coach needs to draw up some plays designed to get him more shots and the players need to execute.

At the same time, maybe Miller was just a really good fit for the system in Memphis and isn't going to be as effective once he's out of that system. I don't necessarily think we should run our offense to get Miller numbers.

[TMo519]

Detroit obviously had no problem with guaranteeing Billups a starting spot and it didn't cause any locker room strife. There was no one on the Wolves roster who was going to start over Billups except for Brandon. If the Wolves thought Brandon wouldn't come back, they should have just told Billups that he would be the starter, because he would have been.
I don't think the average fan knew at that point Brandon would never play again, Billups obviously didn't know. If management did, it makes the mistake of letting Billups walk even more glaring.

I don't remember who Detroit had at the time, but I'm pretty sure they were in need of a point guard, thus of course they were willing to give Chauncey a starting spot. I just can't believe the Wolves would let him walk thinking they would never see Terrell Brandon play again.

[shrink]

Detroit obviously had no problem with guaranteeing Billups a starting spot and it didn't cause any locker room strife.

This is not "obvious," and I don't think there is any way to know. It isn't obvious that Billups demands to MIN would be the same as his demands to DET.

There was no one on the Wolves roster who was going to start over Billups except for Brandon. If the Wolves thought Brandon wouldn't come back, they should have just told Billups that he would be the starter, because he would have been.

They thought Brandon might come back, and they thought he might not. Nobody knew at that point, so the promise couldn't be made.

I don't think the average fan knew at that point Brandon would never play again, Billups obviously didn't know. If management did, it makes the mistake of letting Billups walk even more glaring.

You keep changing your words. Your accusation was:

I can't help thinking somebody should have known it was at least a possibility that Brandon would never play again.

I think everyone knew it was a POSSIBLITY. But maybe we see eye-to-eye on another matter.


In general, I think several of the McHale detractors (mostly in the community and on other boards -- not so much here), ignore the timing of information. With perfect clarity, they can look back and say, "Hey, look how Marbury went psycho. McHale had Ray Allen in his hand, and traded for that jerk. McHale is such an idiot!" They ignore information of the time, like Cassell's trade value at the time of the trade being in the toilet, because he was thought to be an overpaid cancer, who was old, and was continually injured as well, and that he'd just made a lottery team out of a group a that was put together with so much talented some experts predicted they would win the NBA Play-Offs. In both cases, when time passes and Cassell rejuvenates his career (for a year) and doesn't proove cancerous to the Clips (though they were a lottery team), or Marbury proves as crazy as Ray Allen appears sane, then they can look back and say, "Aha! Look, McHale makes such obvious mistakes!"

For me, I'm more of an "expected value" guy. At the time of the trade, Marbury may have looked a little more dangerous than Ray Allen (maybe not), but he also may have looked like a better fit for KG and the Wolves. You make your decision based on all the information you have at the time, knowing you don't HAVE all the information, and you make a projection. The future may work out, and it may not, based on several factors that may be outside your control. Wally Szczerbiak (#3 scorer in Wolves history) gets injured. Rip Hamilton does not. Does that make the decision-making process at the time bad?

In my opinion, it does not. You choose the course of action that you feel has the greater probability for success. The future is never guaranteed.

[Worm Guts]

This is not "obvious," and I don't think there is any way to know. It isn't obvious that Billups demands to MIN would be the same as his demands to DET.

You're right, they probably didn't have to make the promise because he knew would start because he was the best point guard on the team. Either way, I think it goes along with playing time as a standard concern among free agents.

They thought Brandon might come back, and they thought he might not. Nobody knew at that point, so the promise couldn't be made.

If it's a maybe that Brandon might come back, don't you have to whatever it takes to sign Billups instead of risking going into to the season with no legitimate point guard?

You keep changing your words.

I think everyone knew it was a POSSIBLITY. But maybe we see eye-to-eye on another matter.

I'm not sure I knew it was a possiblity at that time. I didn't realize it was possibility until he wasn't playing the following season, and I was following the Wolves closely at that point.

In general, I think several of the McHale detractors (mostly in the community and on other boards -- not so much here), ignore the timing of information. With perfect clarity, they can look back and say, "Hey, look how Marbury went psycho. McHale had Ray Allen in his hand, and traded for that jerk. McHale is such an idiot!" They ignore information of the time, like Cassell's trade value at the time of the trade being in the toilet, because he was thought to be an overpaid cancer, who was old, and was continually injured as well, and that he'd just made a lottery team out of a group a that was put together with so much talented some experts predicted they would win the NBA Play-Offs. In both cases, when time passes and Cassell rejuvenates his career (for a year) and doesn't proove cancerous to the Clips (though they were a lottery team), or Marbury proves as crazy as Ray Allen appears sane, then they can look back and say, "Aha! Look, McHale makes such obvious mistakes!"

For me, I'm more of an "expected value" guy. At the time of the trade, Marbury may have looked a little more dangerous than Ray Allen (maybe not), but he also may have looked like a better fit for KG and the Wolves. You make your decision based on all the information you have at the time, knowing you don't HAVE all the information, and you make a projection. The future may work out, and it may not, based on several factors that may be outside your control. Wally Szczerbiak (#3 scorer in Wolves history) gets injured. Rip Hamilton does not. Does that make the decision-making process at the time bad?

In my opinion, it does not. You choose the course of action that you feel has the greater probability for success. The future is never guaranteed.

I agree with the last paragraph but at some point, if you haven't reached a certain level of success there has to be some accountability. I was willing to cut McHale some slack during his first 5,6,7 because the team had drastically improved from when he started but the team has dissapointed for the 5th straight season this year and the only people left to blame are McHale and Taylor.