The RealGM Wizards Board Draft Thread 2008/2009

[Rafael122]

So basically, its Griffin or bust. Brilliant.

After I said I was sold on Curry, now I'm not. He looked really slow against West Virginia, and he's not athletic enough to get past NBA defenders. Honestly, it looks like Morris Almond redux. Both can score, but both offer nothing more. Curry should not be a lottery pick.

I reckon if we fall back enough, Ernie will trade it. There's just nothing out there this year that makes you want to go "I need to get the overall pick!"

[Kanyewest]

I wonder who the Wizards will pick this year that will cause Wizard fans to proclaim the world is ending.

[Pollinator]

Write-up of the recent face-off between Ricky Rubio and Brandon Jennings in a game in Barcelona here at slamonline.com. What I could get from it is basically that Jennings seems to be getting better after a rough start in Europe (had 12 points and 2 assists in 23 minutes officially), Rubio is still getting back to 100% after ligament surgery in his hand, but both of those guys played like lottery caliber talent, and Rubio has already shown in the Olympics he can hold his own against NBA players.

Jennings is going to be very interesting, a tremendous talent that will have a year of pro ball under his belt by the time he gets up to the podium to shake hands with the commish on draft day. As for Rubio it says he may wait until 2010 to declare, but obviously since we suck so much this year we'll keep our fingers crossed that he changes his mind on that.

[doclinkin]

After I said I was sold on Curry, now I'm not. He looked really slow against West Virginia, and he's not athletic enough to get past NBA defenders. Honestly, it looks like Morris Almond redux. Both can score, but both offer nothing more.

Dunno man. The WV game Huggs designed a solid game plan to kill Curry's game, and he shot poorly the whole night because of it, until the last few minutes of the game when S'Curry racked 13 of the last 15 points. And the rest of his line: 10 assists, 4 steals, 2 blocks. End result: a 'W' against a solid program, good coach with the game plan stacked specifically to stop him.

And that's the thing for me, games where he is defended well he has done enough of everything else to pull out a win, and at endgame when the situation is critical he raises his game and hits the shots anyway. And checking his past records it's not like opponent guards are going off and torching his teams, they are at or below average in games against him, even in March. He's playing point guard this year, but last year he had games with 7, 8, 10 boards. Last year he averaged over 5 boards per 40, this year it's 7 dimes per 40. Last year it wasn't his job to set the table, he played off the ball, this year he carries the whole team.

The NBA quality I see most is the mental win-directed aspect. He does as much as he has to to win the game, on a team where there ain't nobody else. And when his shot alone ain't enough, he does the little things. That's the thing you can't train. Situation recognition. That's the thing that translates at the next level and makes teammates better. Quiet, calm confidence, efficiency. Something our team needs as much as front court intimidation or a perimeter stopper. Game smarts. Win-directed.

And as for offense -- In the NCAA's he carries the load because he has to. In the NBA, teams aren't going to be keying on the lil' rookie, he'll be able to play the quiet killer, set the table, do just enough, then hit any open shot available.

I understand we have Gilbert, I recognize and realize this ain't the biggest need position. I can see easily why he'd be overlooked and deigned not Lotto quality. I agree he ain't a franchise pick. I'm also saying. it's a strong feeling, this kid is gonna be torturing and frustrating opposing teams in the league for years to come, no matter what role he ends up finding.

100% certain of this: He'll play on a championship team at some point in his career, even as a sniper-sub back-up point. (Same way I knew for certain CWebb never would. Same way Nick Young gives me deep doubts). In the NBA, at the lowest end of his potential, picture him as a more efficient, less streaky, smarter (ie, quicker to adjust and find his role) more PG-oriented Juan Dixon. Then ask yourself how many elite teams would like to have that as a final piece. Like JDix's 35 points against the CHI-Bulls that saved our bacon, available in the 4th quarter/whenever you need it. Timing is key. It's not the keystone role, it's just that key critical player that shows up on the best teams. Not the best athlete, just a stone cold winner. Born to it. Not every draft has a franchise player. But most every draft has a champion-quality role player. He's this year's version of that bench sniper killer archetype that other teams drain your blood with.

I'll be curious to see how he plays against Duke, Jan 7.

[nate33]

It'll be interesting to see what EG does if we end up with the 3rd or 4th pick. It seems to me that Blake Griffin is the only superstar caliber talent that also plays a position of need. Maybe Rubio qualifies if one thinks that Arenas can play SG full time (I personally prefer Arenas at PG). But if we're picking when Mullins and Thabeet are next on the board, it might be the right time to consider a trade. There will be a bunch of lotto teams in desperate need of a center. If we could trade down 5 or 6 spots and still end up with a guy like Curry, DeRozan or Harden, it might work out well. It all depends on what other teams are willing to give us in order to move up in the draft.

Would Charlotte trade Wallace for Etan in order to move up from 7th to 3rd?

[mhd]

It'll be interesting to see what EG does if we end up with the 3rd or 4th pick. It seems to me that Blake Griffin is the only superstar caliber talent that also plays a position of need. Maybe Rubio qualifies if one thinks that Arenas can play SG full time (I personally prefer Arenas at PG). But if we're picking when Mullins and Thabeet are next on the board, it might be the right time to consider a trade. There will be a bunch of lotto teams in desperate need of a center. If we could trade down 5 or 6 spots and still end up with a guy like Curry, DeRozan or Harden, it might work out well. It all depends on what other teams are willing to give us in order to move up in the draft.

Would Charlotte trade Wallace for Etan in order to move up from 7th to 3rd?

100% on point Nate. Assuming we are not at a position to land Blake, I'd follow the Minnesota model of last year in draft strategy. They got rid of terrible contracts in Jaric for a very good player in Mike Miller and only dropped down a couple of slots.

[Severn Hoos]

OK, I'll fess up - I haven't seen ASU play yet this season. I did see Harden last year, and he looked good - but again, would I spend a Top 3 pick on a 6'4 SG? Not sure. But I'll be keeping an eye on him as Conference play starts to see how he fares - especially against Ben Howland's defense.

Today's early games: Tyler Smith was OK (17,6, and 4), but his team lost - and the Christmas kid from Temple was on fire. Aldrich looks good early, this is the first time I've seen him live. Active on the boards, and even passes out of the double- (or triple-) team well. Don't think I'd pick him if I'm the Wiz, but he's more intriguing than I first thought.

[nate33]

OK, I'll fess up - I haven't seen ASU play yet this season. I did see Harden last year, and he looked good - but again, would I spend a Top 3 pick on a 6'4 SG? Not sure. But I'll be keeping an eye on him as Conference play starts to see how he fares - especially against Ben Howland's defense.

Today's early games: Tyler Smith was OK (17,6, and 4), but his team lost - and the Christmas kid from Temple was on fire. Aldrich looks good early, this is the first time I've seen him live. Active on the boards, and even passes out of the double- (or triple-) team well. Don't think I'd pick him if I'm the Wiz, but he's more intriguing than I first thought.

According to nbadraft.net, Harden recently measured 6'-4.25" in bare feet. That's easily 6-5 by NBA standards. He just turned 19 in August so he might grow another quarter or half inch before he's done. I like that he seems to be an all-around player rather than a pure scorer. It sounds like he'd be a good compliment to Arenas. He's not a freakish athlete though. Expect innumerable diatribes from wizardynasty if we draft him.

[Ruzious]

Harden could go as high as 2nd in the draft, imo. He definitely goes before Mullins. I guess Rubio is a wild card - don't know if he's going to make himself eligible for the draft, and I'm not nearly as sold on him as others are. I'm hoping Thabeet has a big year - hoping either he pushes Harden down to us, or he's trade bait for trading down. I'm not sure if there's anyone else that might emerge out of nowhere to go top 5 - there could be.

[BruceO]

oklahoma playing right now with griffin

[WizarDynasty]

OK, I'll fess up - I haven't seen ASU play yet this season. I did see Harden last year, and he looked good - but again, would I spend a Top 3 pick on a 6'4 SG? Not sure. But I'll be keeping an eye on him as Conference play starts to see how he fares - especially against Ben Howland's defense.

Today's early games: Tyler Smith was OK (17,6, and 4), but his team lost - and the Christmas kid from Temple was on fire. Aldrich looks good early, this is the first time I've seen him live. Active on the boards, and even passes out of the double- (or triple-) team well. Don't think I'd pick him if I'm the Wiz, but he's more intriguing than I first thought.

According to nbadraft.net, Harden recently measured 6'-4.25" in bare feet. That's easily 6-5 by NBA standards. He just turned 19 in August so he might grow another quarter or half inch before he's done. I like that he seems to be an all-around player rather than a pure scorer. It sounds like he'd be a good compliment to Arenas. He's not a freakish athlete though. Expect innumerable diatribes from wizardynasty if we draft him.

Soon we will make him 6'6, a guy who based on video had trouble even dunking the ball with authority and we think he is a top 3 lotto pick. And we are tanking an entire season for this lmao. all goes back to Grunfeld putting poor man to man defenders at every starting position since he has been here and this is what we have to look forward too. It aint getting any better folks with Grunfeld leading us.

[pancakes3]

please stop discounting players soley based on physical shortcomings. there is so much more to basketball than just footspeed and wingspan. if you want to crunch numbers, crunch numbers based off of production like eFG, rb%, or PER instead of meaningless physical attributes. More Moneyball and less Freakonomics (more analyzing and less half baked correlations).

[BruceO]

please stop discounting players soley based on physical shortcomings. there is so much more to basketball than just footspeed and wingspan. if you want to crunch numbers, crunch numbers based off of production like eFG, rb%, or PER instead of meaningless physical attributes. More Moneyball and less Freakonomics (more analyzing and less half baked correlations).

Numbers matter to an extent when making the jump from college to NBA. It's the reason those things are listed on top of scouting reports. I have Harden on my list as a prospective SG. Alongside him theres Demar Derozen, Stephen Curry, Jrue Holiday, Tyreke Evans, Chase Budinger and Dionte Christmas who's more unknown. Out of these guys
Derozen has an NBA body but he doesn't produce or affect games and could very well be hype. He's not doing as well as his predecessors Nick and OJ mayo. But he's a rookie and he's raw. He has to show more even though he's ranked high.
Stephen curry alot of people like his ability to shoot. He reminds me of Monta ellis but he's not as fast. He'll have to play the point at 6 3'. or be a combo guard like Iverson or Monta. At the 2 guard he's going to be punished the same where he punishes the other Guard. I look at history. Look what happened to a skinny guard who could score called JJ reddick. Nothing happened. Not saying Stephen curry is going to go the same route but can you imagine scenarios where the Kobe's, the Nick Youngs, the vince carters and Joe Johnson's go up against him posting him up and shooting over him. He can't play the 2. Maybe the one. We got gilbert there though and we just got Mike James as a rental and crittenton who we had our eye on for 2 years. Unless Stephen curry i's to play behind gil and along side him. I'd only do that if he's that good. As a pg I do rank him highly.
Jrue Holiday I'm meh about. his numbers are not eye popping and I don't see anything special enough to warrant a top 7 pick. I actually prefer Tyreke Evans of memphis who I didn't realize until recently was a SG's size. He's ranked 5 among freshmen right behind Jrue but I think B.J Mullens, Demar Derozan being ahead of him according to DX is a sham.
Harden is Ok. Infact he's projected highly. I compared his game against the competition Chase budinger went against and they are not that different. Both are slow paced players but that might not be bad if they are in the mold of a Brandon Roy for Harden and a Bigger Rip Hamilton for Chase budinger.

Overall the only people possibly top five worthy at this point are Blake Griffin, Hasheem Thabeet, Ricky Rubio, Harden possibly and whatever other unknown is out there. If we don't get our man we should make deals to trade down and get multiple players later in the draft.

[BruceO]

actually having watched more stephen curry footage and checked out his production numbers and the way he moves I actually think he's a pretty good pg. Definately all star caliber. There's nothing that can stop him from being a devin harris, a monta ellis, a barbosa or even more. If anything I'd like to draft him to piss Lebron off cause LBJ went to watch his games and apparently likes him. It's going to be interesting seeing which pg goes first among the 22 or so who might make it out of 60. He has a bigger upside than Brandon Jennings although i put jennings up there. Tyreke evans who I mentioned Id have to watch closer but top five for right now he seems like a reach. So my new top five talent is Blake Grifin, Rick Rubio, Stephen Curry, Thabeet ( even though I have to examine how much he has improved) and Harden. Bj mullens, Derozen, Jrue Holiday I gotta watch more. but I don't think they are worth top ten. Earl clark, Budinger, Dionte christmas and Greivis vasquez look like good value picks depending on where the fall and depending on how they perform from now on

[mhd]

Buddiner on CSN right now against Gonzaga.

[WizarDynasty]

I would just like to add that a true allstar is a player that usually wins his matchups on both sides of the court nightly. Duncan, Garnett, Kidd, Kobe, D.Howard. they dominate on both sides of the ball. They force the guy they are guarding to have a bad game and at the same time..dominate offensively. Arenas is half an allstar yet we pay him as if he is a complete allsar. I don't see arenas as a true allstar because he can't shut down another point guard...which is what would make the points that he scores..more valuable. If you stop the player you are guarding from performing at high level and at teh same time...perform offensively at a high level, then you are an allstar...otherwise, you are still a role player.
Curry would be an offensive role player on a playoff squad and never be able to shut down another play off point guard on the defensive side. All he could do is try to match or outscore the guy he is guarding and hope that one of his team mates can reduce the scoring ability in their matchup. Again curry will never be able to stop another playoff point guard from scoring. All he could pray to do is hope that each night he can make more of his shots..and hope that guy he is guarding is having an off night because curry lacks the defensive abilities to force another playoff point guard ot have a bad night.
There is a difference between an allstar that forces the guy he is guarding to have a bad night versus just praying that he has bad night shooting. Curry is a specialist coming off the bench on a playoff squad just like his father and just like juan dixon should be for a brief offensive spark because he isn't forcing him man to have a bad game while he is on the court. This is why we need to get rid of jamison, and caron, and even arenas because they are not players you build a franchise around. they are good role players..to fill the scoring need but they can't force teh guy they are guarding to have a bad night..they just pray and wish..instead of using their superior man on man defensive abilities to force the guy they are guarding to have a bad night.

[BruceO]

so you wouldn't take Nash? Curry btw is supposed to be a somewhat good defender. The one game I watched I wasn't impressed but he lit up late and this was against a defensive specialist. The way he hits shots reminds me of Arenas. Who btw I'd take anyday allstar or not. He's a game changer. You gotta go back and watch footage of gil because we forget how good he actually was. I was on youtube watching his scoring outbursts and he is unstoppable. He's more likely to expose the other player than they are to expose him. Even though he's not a great defender he has the potential to be so. Also the people he can't stop no one generally can. They have more to worry about than he does. How quickly we forget a wizards player rising up and shooting the ball from half court. Curry looks like he has that sort of range. I'm not talking about building a team around team, But I'm saying now that we have this piece we are a step closer towards having a championship team. If not him, then who is a true all star PG? only one I can think of is Chauncey.
I see your point though. I do believe we are not going anywhere till we have a proper defensive team, hence my clamouring to get rid of Jamison. Hence my clamouring to try and negate Lebron as much as possible with a Battier, an artest or a Carmelo. When I mentioned bringing artest here, wiz fans were telling me he has no character. I just want lebron negated as much as possible and then we can make it up with the rest of the roster. I definately don't want Arenas going anywhere. His salary is not a crime considering Monta Ellis makes 11m and theres several players making that much and even more ( Marbury 20m) He's not swallowing our Salary space. IMO whats needed is Haywood, Arenas, A Big PF who's an all star defensively and offensively and a wing who will put pressure on other wings and a wing who can defend other wings.

[go'stags]

So your saying we should draft a Duncan, Garnett, Kidd, Kobe, or Howard type of player?

Hmm...thats actually kind of genius...you might be on to something. Someone alert EG!!

[BruceO]

you know from that gonzaga arizona game the only one who jumped out at me is Austin Daye. I looked up his profile and I think he's going to be good once he gets an NBA body. At 6 10 he can be a wing mismatch. Here's his writeup http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Austin-Daye-1316/. Jordan Hill is listed as a prospect too but I don't know what position he will play in the NBA and he's too slow for his size.I didn't see enough from chase budinger. David Ebanks came up too (not from this game) http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Devin-Ebanks-1112/ as another prospect that I'll keep an eye on. Al farouq aminu is playing on CSN. I want to watch his handle and his post moves http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Al- ... minu-1293/

[pancakes3]

so curry's too skinny to guard a 2guard, and harden's too fat? why bother searching when we have Crittendon waiting in the wings?

I can't think of a player that can "shut down" an opposing player in the league. Duncan gives up 30+ regularly to Amare, KG gave up 25/12 to Dwight Howard last season, and Dwight let Bosh average 33/8 in 4 games. Yes, those players are great defensive talents, but if you're looking for "lock down" players like Mutumbo & co. those type of players are far and few in between, and rarely "max contract cornerstones" but rather role players in their own right. Like I said in the other thread, Gil isn't a poor defender, and can stand to get better, but he's not a wet paper towel on defense either.

As for curry, yeah, there are doubts about his size and ability to guard opposing guards, but aren't the same worries true for Devin harris, Iverson, and other undersized scoring dynamos? Scoring the ball efficiently is a premium talent in the league and a .400 three-ball shooter is as much a role player as a lock down defender. Ask Steve kerr.