Suns WILL win more games

Jdiddy701 · Post #1 » by **Jdiddy701** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:39 pm

Mistake me if i'm wrong, but EJ always points out during Suns game that Suns have a winning record when Raja scored 20+ points a game. To tell you the truth, I believe they were undefeated when Raja scored 20+. Raja is gone, and JRICH can score 20+ points with ease. Does this make this team more lethal? And I don't expect this team to lose as much anymore.

Also, some Suns fans were saying the deal wasn't as good for the Suns, because Raja's D. Am I the only one who realized his D faded away through the years? Thanks guys.

Suns_fan_2007 · Post #2 » by **Suns_fan_2007** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:12 pm

I love Raja, but do also realize he's getting older, while J.Rich is in his prime... so yea, it was a great great trade for us!!

asubennett · Post #3 » by **asubennett** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:17 pm

EJ mentioned last night how it is so difficult to defend when you never know who is going to score.

With J-Rich being a 20pt threat every night we effectively have 7 players who can go for 20+ on any given night.

Nash
Rich
Hill
Amare
Shaq
Barnes
Barbosa

And in respone to the critics on losing Raja's defense. One guy trying hard on defense doesnt work. Raja could attempt to lock down a star 2 all he wants but bottom line is without consistent help defense it is next to impossible.

This team, if it continues to gell and play inside out like last night could scare a lot of teams in the post season.

If we stay in the 7 or 8 seed that is a terrible draw for a 1 or 2 seed like LA or Denver.

Post #4 » by **TASTIC** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:21 pm

Sigh...scoring's NEVER been our problem...

A roc 23 · Post #5 » by **A roc 23** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:18 pm

Alright I might be alone on this but I thought J-Rich's defense has looked great in the first 2 games.

Am I alone?

I paid special attention to what he did on defense and he was never getting beat, working hard, contesting every shot and fronting very well when on the bigger Tim Thomas.

As for the OP, I think that stat is very telling. It's really exciting to see the Suns with a lineup that can easily score 100 points by themselves again. I think it's important to get Barnes and Barbosa going a little more though. Hill and Nash don't need to play 38 minutes.

asubennett · Post #6 » by **asubennett** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:20 pm

TASTIC wrote:Sigh...scoring's NEVER been our problem...

We were a bad defensive team with Raja, Marion and Kurt.

We are a bad defensive team without all three.

We were a good offensive team with Raja, Marion and Kurt.

This team has the potential to be the most offensive team we have had. FG% is my evidence.

This team has the potential to be the best rebounding team we have had in some time.

Post #7 » by **rsavaj** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:45 pm

asubennett wrote:
TASTIC wrote:Sigh...scoring's NEVER been our problem...

We were a bad defensive team with Raja, Marion and Kurt.

This team has the potential to be the most offensive team we have had. FG% is my evidence.

Actually, we were a GREAT defensive team with prime Raja/Marion/Diaw/healthy KT. Ranked fourth in the league, FOURTH, until KT went down in February in 05/06. Not coincidentally, Amare wasn't a part of that squad. Your first point is simply untrue.

And I'm a little iffy on that second prediction too, but it may happen

asubennett · Post #8 » by **asubennett** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:59 pm

rsavaj wrote:
asubennett wrote:
TASTIC wrote:Sigh...scoring's NEVER been our problem...

We were a bad defensive team with Raja, Marion and Kurt.

This team has the potential to be the most offensive team we have had. FG% is my evidence.

Actually, we were a GREAT defensive team with prime Raja/Marion/Diaw/healthy KT. Ranked fourth in the league, FOURTH, until KT went down in February in 05/06. Not coincidentally, Amare wasn't a part of that squad. Your first point is simply untrue.

And I'm a little iffy on that second prediction too, but it may happen

Defense is more than just defensive efficiency. What was our rebounding margin? What was our turnover creation vs turnover management?

I have never seen a Suns team with a GREAT or GOOD defense. Ever. That is why we are the oldest franchise in the NBA to have never won a ring.

Post #9 » by **rsavaj** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:29 pm

asubennett wrote:.

All of that is factored into defensive efficiency. Get killed on the glass? The other team will score more points. Turn over the ball a lot? The other team will score more points.

Defensive efficiency factors all of that in. That 05/06 team was a great defensive unit

b-ball forever · Post #10 » by **b-ball forever** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:40 pm

Yeah, the 05-06 team was very good defensive team despite the fast pace.
KT and Diaw made a very nice post-defense combo, even if they weren't the greatest blockers. Then there was Raja and Marion who were 2 of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA at the time, and did a very good job covering for Nash's defensive deficienies.
Jones and House off the bench weren't too shaby either.

Our 06-07 team pretty solid on D too.

Post #11 » by **KJ7** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:40 pm

I think the point we're making is you can go defensive if you've got good defensders. But regardless of who is coaching this team they're only going to be able to improve our defense so much.

Now if we had kept Marion, Diaw, Bell and Kurt in particular and we got a defensive coach that potential for playing defense all of a sudden becomes *much* greater. You can bring Larry Brown in at this stage and he's gonna scratch his head at trying to get this team to play as good defense as the best defensive teams.

asubennett · Post #12 » by **asubennett** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:45 pm

rsavaj wrote:
asubennett wrote:.

All of that is factored into defensive efficiency. Get killed on the glass? The other team will score more points. Turn over the ball a lot? The other team will score more points.

Defensive efficiency factors all of that in. That 05/06 team was a great defensive unit

So by your logic above pt. differential would be a good barometer of defensive efficiency?

So if you allowed a team to shoot 50% for a season but you happened to shoot 60% you are now scoring more points and therefore are a better defensive team? Sorry dude, the Suns were never a good defensive team.

Ninjafish · Post #13 » by **Ninjafish** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:02 pm

Jdiddy701 wrote:Mistake me if i'm wrong, but EJ always points out during Suns game that Suns have a winning record when Raja scored 20+ points a game. To tell you the truth, I believe they were undefeated when Raja scored 20+. Raja is gone, and JRICH can score 20+ points with ease. Does this make this team more lethal?

Except now we also lose whatever points Boris would've got. And we may be worse defensively.

skEwb · Post #14 » by **skEwb** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:02 pm

Ninjafish wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:Mistake me if i'm wrong, but EJ always points out during Suns game that Suns have a winning record when Raja scored 20+ points a game. To tell you the truth, I believe they were undefeated when Raja scored 20+. Raja is gone, and JRICH can score 20+ points with ease. Does this make this team more lethal?

Except now we also lose whatever points Boris would've got. And we may be worse defensively.

Nothing J.Rich can't make up for, seems like he is single handedly outscoring Raja and Boris. Raja was on a cold streak and Boris was slow and predictable whereas J.Rich brings toughness, quickness and scoring.

Ninjafish · Post #15 » by **Ninjafish** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:37 am

skEwb wrote:
Ninjafish wrote:
Jdiddy701 wrote:Mistake me if i'm wrong, but EJ always points out during Suns game that Suns have a winning record when Raja scored 20+ points a game. To tell you the truth, I believe they were undefeated when Raja scored 20+. Raja is gone, and JRICH can score 20+ points with ease. Does this make this team more lethal?

Except now we also lose whatever points Boris would've got. And we may be worse defensively.

Nothing J.Rich can't make up for, seems like he is single handedly outscoring Raja and Boris. Raja was on a cold streak and Boris was slow and predictable whereas J.Rich brings toughness, quickness and scoring.

He can make up for it on average because Raja doesn't normally score 20. But if Raja was hot and scoring over 20 and Boris gets his usual points, he can't make up for that by scoring 20. So that EJ stat goes out the window.

Maybe the new stat will be if JRich scores 30+, we're undefeated. I could see that.

I agree that JRich brings the quickness and energy that Bell and Diaw lacked. (Bell brought toughness too and the scoring is about the same as Bell + Diaw w/ same number of shots) But can he bring the chemistry that those two had with Nash and the defense? It's way too early to say now.

chrice · Post #16 » by **chrice** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:00 am

I like the move. I wish we could have kept Bell, because he was a big part of our success. But I like the move. As much as the Suns need defense, the Suns needed an all around guy who can slash/finish to create And 1 opportunities. He adds another dimension to our offense, because he can score on any part of the floor.