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farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term

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farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#1 » by dockingsched » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:14 am

how does everyone view jordan farnar's future with the lakers?

short term: i don't think farmar is going to end up taking the starting position like many, including myself, were saying after the first few games of the yr. after a hot start, his short comings have been really exposed. he's not quick enough to stay in front of most pg's, he's not strong enough to battle the bigger pg's. his shot has been shaky since the all-star break last yr. his decision making hasn't really improved all that much. hes kinda become the poster child for whats wrong with this team's attitude towards defense. his answer to someone burning him to the hoop is to go right back at him.

long term: farmar can get an extension this upcoming off-season, but unless there is a drastic change in his play, i wouldn't be surprised to see the lakers let him become a restricted FA. i don't know, i just don't have a clear vision of his future with the lakers. right now the lakers don't have any other options, so he's got a backup role pretty much wrapped up this yr and probably next.

i don't know, what does everyone else think? i've kinda soured on jordan after being a big fan back in his ucla days.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#2 » by Slava » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:17 am

I see him as the first piece moved if we make changes in the transfer window. His attitude and respect towards the coaches has been questioned and his recent demotion to 3rd string PG is a clear reason for the need for a move. Along with Rad and LO, he should be on the shop list by now.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#3 » by MikeyMike » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:22 am

I don't know.

Farmar is operating on the word potential. He's still young and has shown he has the capacity to improve.

It really depends on the deal.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#4 » by dockingsched » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:27 am

the thing is its like he's regressed. we all remember his great start last yr and him just hitting the wall. well, aside from the first few games of the season, its like the wall is getting bigger and bigger. if you look at his shooting numbers, they're all down, even his FT shooting. his defense has never been worse, or may be its just the added focus on it. point is, its not getting any better. i've seen no improvement at all this season on d, and we're more than a quarter into the yr. he's not really creating for anyone. the only thing i think you can depend on farmar for is a bucket when the clock us running out.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#5 » by MAMBAEMD » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:29 am

I agree that he has been dissapointing so far although he does show flashes of brilliance here and there specially offensively.
He just strikes me as someone who does not get the NBA game yet. He has a lot to learn specially defensively. I'm not sure how much coaching he has gotten at the pro level about defense. I'm sure he got plently at UCLA under Howland.
He is stubborn and seems to have an attitude, which is good and bad.

I'm not sure I'd give up on him just yet, unless we get a solid defense PG in return.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#6 » by dockingsched » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:31 am

i hope the lakers bring in a young pg this off-season. seems like farmar has gotten a sense of entitlement ever since critt was traded.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#7 » by milesfides » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:25 am

It's tough to be objective after Farmar's worse game of the season.

I think he'll be traded this season. Or he should be. He's still signed through 2010, which will make him easier to trade this year than next - he's not attractive as an expiring contract; he's attractive for his talent and rookie contract.

He's an eventual starter in this league. But he's a square peg. His playmaking skills have all but vanished in his current role - which is a limited one. The flaws in our second unit have forced Phil to rein in the bench mob running game. Without that context, Farmar is proving to be a bad fit with this team.

Undoubtedly, if Farmar were traded to a rebuilding team with a point guard vacancy, he'd quickly expand his game and become a solid starting PG. He's too talented, athletic, and hard-working. Mo Williams developing on the Bucks comes to mind. If Farmar were given that type of freedom and opportunity, within 2-3 years, his game will take off.

On the other hand, our team cannot wait with Farmar. We don't have the luxury. Winning is urgent now, and that which is not essential is expendable. Honestly, these days, I could care less about wins or losses, good game, bad game. I'm evaluating individual players to see if they can be relied upon in the playoffs. In that sense, Farmar, for all his talent and potential, is expendable due to his lack of a consistent role and steady contribution. Thus, we might try replacing him with a better fit, if not an equal talent.

Guys like Duhon were overlooked because he doesn't have Farmar's talent, but he sure has been doing his job as a PG for the knicks, hasn't he? Kirk Hinrich and Earl Watson also come to mind.

Our team needs a defensive-minded playmaker in the halfcourt, and that's absolutely the opposite of who Farmar is as a player.

I feel fine about Farmar leaving for a better situation. For a young player like him trying to start a career, winning championships probably isn't everything, and rightfully so. Leave the rhetoric for guys who have tens of millions already in the bank and only a legacy to chase.

The worst way to handle this would be to try to force Farmar to change his game until the bitter end when everybody will be pissed off. Sometimes the Lakers F.O. is so self-defeating, and so hapless that a bad move can come around full circle, and with tremendous luck, become a boon. But they shouldn't take the chance with Farmar.

Move him while his value is still high, while his contract is not an issue, while our season is still young. And wish him the best of luck, and just accept that two great parts don't necessarily make a great match, like pizza and milk, or mark wahlberg and zooey deschanel.

That's my take on the short and long of it.

And I'll also predict that soon enough, Farmar will regain some of his productivity. He's too good of a player to remain in this funk for too long. He'll find ways to contribute, maybe even go on a hot streak, but I'd still consider the big picture and move him.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#8 » by Verbal » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:07 pm

Hinrich jumps out at me as an option for sure.


I didn't think Farmar was going to be a great fit with us so I suggested to trade Farmar in the Marbury trade to begin with (in that 6-7 page Marbury thread).

Looking at things now, on paper, we're doing well - but not well enough.

I see that Eddy is still cold chillin at MickeyDeez and I'm glad Steph hasn't lost his head.

If he does get bought out, our 6th man issues will be resolved along w/ the PG issue.


The "Least Coast" is always looking for point guards, Farmar won't go homeless.

Just make sure to package one of our overpaid SFs to go wit em.


I'm not sure how pizza and milk fit, but pizza and ice cream go along just fine.

Speaking of which, it's feeding time.

Be back in a few. :wave:
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#9 » by lakersfanatic » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:42 pm

As usual.. at the start he was doing well and now.. what happened? I mean he has the built for speed.. why are guys blowing passs him... I mean Nate scoring so much isn't just his fault, but fisher is veteran player so it's expected.. but farmar?...

his stock has definitely gone down as with vlad. Maybe phil is trying to take a crack at them so that they'll try harder.... or else.. trade rumors continue on hehe
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#10 » by Verbal » Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:50 pm

Farmar plays better when he gets more touches and especially so when he's handling the ball more...

Unfortunately for him we already have a stud scorers and Phil's got a Triangle Offense for him to run.

Verdict: Not a perfect fit for our team.


But a turnaround is not out of the question.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#11 » by Tommy Trojan » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:55 pm

j-far wrote:I see him as the first piece moved if we make changes in the transfer window. His attitude and respect towards the coaches has been questioned and his recent demotion to 3rd string PG is a clear reason for the need for a move. Along with Rad and LO, he should be on the shop list by now.


I also have read few articles where he would have attitude problems with the coaches/players.
That only creats a dysfunction within the group/team.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#12 » by TylersLakers » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:01 pm

Like Miles said; If he could be shipping to a rebuilding team with a vacancy at guard, he'll become a good player in a couple years.

That said, he's disappointed me in his first couple seasons with the Lakers. I remember after he was drafted, he did an interview on AM 570. They asked him how he was going to make his mark, and he said he was going to have to do it defensively. I haven't seen it, whether that's heart or just physically he's not capable to do it, he could definitely bring less of a Smush Parker-attitude on the court.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#13 » by That Nicka » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:07 pm

I think everyone is over-reacting a little.... He's not playing great but he has his slumps like everyone else... Many of our players are finding it hard to find their groove and Phil's roatations arent making it much easier.... I think Farmar stays with the team unless we can get someone like Hinrich for a bargain
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#14 » by lakeshow248 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:45 pm

It seems to me nothing will be done trade wise before the Christmas day matchup. However, a deal when Hinrich gets healthy is worth looking at from a Farmar and say one of the two--Luke and Vlad. Other than that the Lakers' want Odom's contract to dissapear next season and save the Money IMO.

On the flip side the Bulls' would also like to dump Kirk's salary with him becoming an expensive back up to D Rose.

And yes Farmar shot has looked horrible lately but so has Luke, Sasha, Ariza. That being said Farmar will never be in the top 15 point guards in the NBA.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#15 » by realfung » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:49 pm

Farma will be witht he Lakers as long as Phi Jackson is here.

He is good for the triangle.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#16 » by Sedale Threatt » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:49 pm

Slumps are one thing, as is struggling to fill a particular role that might not suit your skills, or still being a young kid searching to find his niche at the game's highest level. All that is understandable and, for the most part, excusable.

But you can ALWAYS play defense, and that's the area where Jordan disappoints me most. The lack of effort and awareness he plays with at that end is mind boggling. (And that's coming from somebody who was forced to watch Smush Parker for two seasons.) He simply doesn't know where he's at or what he's doing most of the time. Indeed, I'd go so far as to say he's one of the very worst defensive guards in the league right now.

Maybe he does play better, or at least harder, with more playing time and/or touches. But how many guys on our roster fit that bill? At some point, these guys must buy into the fact that we're trying to win a championship, regardless of who is doing what. If you can't, your presence on the roster is totally counterproductive to the only thing we're trying to accomplish here.

So right now, until Jordan starts playing like defense is even slightly important to him, I will continue to rate him as a negative towards our ultimate goal.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#17 » by Erik Eleven » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:18 pm

As many others and I have pointed out before, Farmar has never been well suited for this offense. Was he the most talented player left at that point in the draft? Arguably. Was he the right fit for this team's needs? No. Did he have an outside chance to become that player? Maybe. Was drafting him partially a safe move with the backup plan of grooming him and making him a tradable asset? I think so. He's not good enough a fit for this contending team and this is, in my opinion, why:

He's a severely undersized shooting guard, more so than a well suited triangle PG. On another team (NY, GSW, Kings) etc, Farmar could thrive and flourish being himself much more so than he can here, I think. That's why other teams covet him and that's why we must trade him — before he plateaus in his progress, while he still has enormous upside. I think he's a starting caliber PG in the NBA, just not on this team.

I'm certain that he has a higher value to almost all other teams than he does for us. For our team needs, he's too short and too slow laterally to have an impact on opposing PGs defensively. Too small to be effective as a shooting guard, offensively. If he truly played the ball that he plays best, he'd be too ball dominant to be a good fit for the Lakers triangle offense. Personally, I think he should be packaged and traded before the deadline.

What this team needs the most is a point guard that can start ahead of Fisher. I love what Derek brings every night, but he's not good enough a starting PG in order for the Lakers to win the championship against teams like the Celtics and the Hornets. I love Fisher's leadership and poise and despite his age and mileage, he is almost good enough in all aspects, but I think we need a better fitted starting PG in order to win it all this year. Almost good enough will take us where it took us last year, which was a completely amazing feat by this team. Still, close but no rings.

Jordan alone isn't going to bring us that starting PG. I'd think we have to package him with at least one more player. As a low profile trade, I'd certainly offer Farmar and Chris Mihm for Steve Blake, who has all the qualities we need in terms of perimeter defense and veteran playmaking skills and decision making with the ball. The PG we need must primarily be a top notch perimeter defender. He must also be good with the ball and good off the ball. One more time — I think Steve Blake is still the most under rated PG in the league in terms of what this triangle offense needs. The trade works financially under the CBA rules.

Outside of that, if we're going for the higher echelon of PGs we could package him with Odom's expiring, but who outside of Billups and Deron Williams (both pipe at this point, Mitch) would be deemed a good enough return? I guess we could package him with Radman to an offensively challenged team and get a defensive minded player at the two positions we need it most; PG and SF.

I'm game with going after Earl Watson, Tyronne Lue etc, but it's not going to make that great a difference. Unless we can get Blake who is still under the radar, I think we need to be much bolder than that. I'd take Earl Watson over Farmar, though.

A player I would love to get back is Crittenton. The question is, is he ready to start competing for a championship right now? Probably not. Would he be able to start ahead of Fisher? Don't think so. However, there is a chance. I think he has a boatload of potential that could be ready to be tapped. Would I trade Crittenton straight up for Farmar? Yes. I'd take the chance. I think he has the potential to become a poor man's CP3 in a bigger body but with less flair. At the very least, a poor man's Billups with more flair.

Regardless, I would think Mitch will make a move before the TD. Too many teams are falling apart for it not to happen. We should have a chance to capitalize on it.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#18 » by Tommy Trojan » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:33 pm

Erik Eleven wrote:What this team needs the most is a point guard that can start ahead of Fisher. I love what Derek brings every night, but he's not good enough a starting PG in order for the Lakers to win the championship against teams like the Celtics and the Hornets. I love Fisher's leadership and poise and despite his age and mileage, he is almost good enough in all aspects, but I think we need a better fitted starting PG in order to win it all this year. Almost good enough will take us where it took us last year, which was a completely amazing feat by this team. Still, close but no rings.


This is where I disagree with you. There is no point guard available that I would consider playing him over Fisher. Fisher can handle his own and he arguable is our best guard defender. As Rick Fox and others on Laker's Live have pointed out. I agree we need to ship Farmar and maybe Vlad with him and get a solid PG that can back up Fisher. The reason we lost last year weak PG it was mostly up front where we got dominated in almost every category.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#19 » by ring09 » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:36 pm

Think about 6 yrs. ago and 1 yr. ago when the Mavs were deciding what to do with Nash and Harris. They made monumental mistakes on both of those decisions. I believe the Mav front office might have been thinking very similar to what Miles wrote in his post. Give him some time, Jordan could easily turn out like Nash or Harris.
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Re: farmar's future with the lakers - short and long term 

Post#20 » by Erik Eleven » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:40 pm

Fisher has looked better defensively in the last few games, especially in the clutch yesterday. He's also a top three 3pt% shooter in the league, so it might be that I should give the long serving veteran the benefit of the doubt. I just don't see him slowing down Rondo in the finals, that's all. I see Blake doing a better job defensively on pretty much any PG in the league. There must be stats to help clear this up, somewhere. Still, all possibilities to trade Farmar and X for Blake must be exhausted.

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