If we keep winning, will the Clippers trade Kaman?

madmaxmedia · Post #1 » by **madmaxmedia** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:50 pm

I had to truncate my title a bit, it should actually be 'If we keep winning, will the Clipper be MORE LIKELY to trade Kaman?"

I ask this because in my non-expert opinion, Kaman is not the best fit for an offense led by Baron Davis. I don't think we should trade Kaman just to trade him (i.e. he is still a positive contribution to the team), and the only reason I think it might be worth trading him is because centers are a valuable commodity and we should get equal or better talent in return.

I think we are currently thin at big man with Kaman out, so would ideally move Kaman for a forward. As a hypothetical scenario, how do you think the Clippers would have fared if we had basically swapped Kaman for say Al Harrington? I know he's no longer available and I don't know about the salaries- I picked him as an example because he's talented forward but not too talented and was on the trade block.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/sport ... nicks.html

I think getting ZBo makes a big difference here, because I think ZBo is ultimately a better low post threat than Kaman (though not by much.) So trading for someone like Harrington who is much more mobile and can still score inside may be a better fit on the current Clipper team.

Previously I had thought may a Jason Richardson trade would be good, obviously JRich has now already been moved. But Eric Gordon is starting to come around (though it's still early), so maybe trading for a F would be a better fit.

mj_shoefanatic · Post #2 » by **mj_shoefanatic** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:26 pm

I seriously wish we had considered acquiring Gerald Wallace + filler for Kaman + filler(R.Davis) :lol:

Jeezo1 · Post #3 » by **Jeezo1** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:30 pm

I still feel that the ideal trading partner for us is the Bobcats. They need a center really bad so that they can move Okafor to the four. If we can trade Kaman for Wallace and Felton, we'd be stupid not to do that deal.

corgiBear8 · Post #4 » by **corgiBear8** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:39 pm

I'd rather have Wallace and Augustin if we have to part with Kaman.

mj_shoefanatic · Post #5 » by **mj_shoefanatic** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:48 pm

No way M.Jordan gives up on Augustin who is sponsered by his personal brand. If we make a move for Felton then Hart needs to be involved in that trade IMO.

PlinkingPanda · Post #6 » by **PlinkingPanda** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:54 pm

I think we should have to wait to see how things work first with our entire roster. Kaman could be damn good off the bench and could possibly pass out of double teams to players like Ricky and Novak for an open jumper.

mj_shoefanatic · Post #7 » by **mj_shoefanatic** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:10 pm

Bricky Davis aint hitting no jumper but I bet G-DuB would.

PlinkingPanda · Post #8 » by **PlinkingPanda** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:22 pm

You guys can dislike him all you want, but I still have some faith in him. The only thing we were concerned with was his attitude when he signed with us. That hasn't been an issue at all so far this season. We all know he has talent(even if you refuse to believe it), but his knee tendinitis is obviously the reason why he's been sucking. It's kinda hard to jump and run when your knee isn't 100% right? The guy shoots a career 44% from the field, and suddenly drops down to 27% for us this season. I don't think I remember him driving to the basket once when he played this season.

If you want to hate anyone, hate Dunleavy(even more) for playing him while he was injured, and blame the medical staff for not doing their job and detecting this sooner. If he sat all this time to recover and our bench continued to struggle contributing, I'm sure you all would be anxious to have Ricky come back. We know the man can score and that's what we need off the bench.

JJ LoDuca · Post #9 » by **JJ LoDuca** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:41 pm

I hear you, Fishy, and I somewhat agree. I was most nervous about Pretty's attitude once he came here, but like you said there have been no problems so far. My main issue with him is his lack of production, and I think I'll wait until after his return to pass judgement on that in case it really was his knee holding him back. But if he's still shooting around 30% after his return-- its torch and pitchfork time. For now, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

As for Kaman, I definitely see how the chemistry between Marcus and Zach leaves Kaman as the odd man out, and therefore makes him more tradeable. However, bringing in a top-10 center off the bench isn't a luxury that many teams (or any teams) have, and I think its way too early to give him up. For anything.

mj_shoefanatic · Post #10 » by **mj_shoefanatic** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:14 pm

Top 10 alongside who else? Taylor, Novak, Skinner, etc..? :lol:

We need a wing player who can score off the bench b/c our bigs(i.e. PD, Skinner) are pretty adequate at that position. Funny how well Bricky played in the preseason then once the reg season came he stunk it up. I'm not willing to wait on him to show progress with his trifling arse. Give us G-Dub, Felton and May for Kaman, Hart and Bricky. PLAYOFFS HERE WE COME!

Post #11 » by **thanumba2clippersfan** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:51 pm

We should wait and see what we have once Kaman and Ricky come back. Once I had heard that Ricky was having problems with his knee I figured that's why he has been struggling. Like most of you have already said most teams don't have good Centers and we currently have two on our roster. Hopefully Kaman and Ricky return sooner rather than later.

madmaxmedia · Post #12 » by **madmaxmedia** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:31 am

JJ LoDuca wrote:As for Kaman, I definitely see how the chemistry between Marcus and Zach leaves Kaman as the odd man out, and therefore makes him more tradeable. However, bringing in a top-10 center off the bench isn't a luxury that many teams (or any teams) have, and I think its way too early to give him up. For anything.

Ah, but here's the thing- are the Clippers better off having a top-10 center coming off the bench, or trading for equal value or greater at another position?

I'm not giving up on Kaman, he is a very good player, and you are right that we should see how things work out when he is healthy. Plus who knows ZBo may go and rob a bank or something. But I'm not advocating trading Kaman because I want him gone, I'm advocating trading Kaman because of what we could potentially get in return.

mj_shoefanatic · Post #13 » by **mj_shoefanatic** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:48 am

^ Very well put MMM

mattfish · Post #14 » by **mattfish** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:55 am

I like Kaman, but I really don't think he's a good fit for this season's Clippers. From the games I've been to, all I see is Kaman clogging up the key when Baron is trying to run a fast break or setting bad picks that get in Barons way. Also, his inability to finish at the bucket is really showing these days when Baron drops it to him under the basket. Even when rebounding, Kaman is usually standing under the basket instead of boxing out.

Last season, all the media kept attributing Kaman's success due to his new adhd neuro-psychological treatments, but I'm pretty sure his success was mostly because the offense was terrible and slow, and everything ran through him since EB was out.

We're moving the ball a lot more and ZBO can actually pass the ball and finish at the basket, so I don't think Kaman is going to last much longer unless Camby gets hurt in the near future...

madmaxmedia · Post #15 » by **madmaxmedia** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:03 am

mattfish wrote:I like Kaman, but I really don't think he's a good fit for this season's Clippers. From the games I've been to, all I see is Kaman clogging up the key when Baron is trying to run a fast break or setting bad picks that get in Barons way. Also, his inability to finish at the bucket is really showing these days when Baron drops it to him under the basket. Even when rebounding, Kaman is usually standing under the basket instead of boxing out.

It's weird, Kaman's FG% was fine last year. But I cringe when he misses those easy opportunities right at the basket. I guess it feels like it doesn't really matter whether it is easy shot or hard one, he will make about half of them either way-

All that being said, he is a quality NBA center. So it would only be worth entertaining a trade if there was quality coming back.

Clint Eastwood · Post #16 » by **Clint Eastwood** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:25 am

how about gooden, noah, and a first this year for kaman?

gooden is a serviceable frontcourt 4/5 on an expiring deal. noah is a cheap young big, who someday hopes to be a camby. he would be a developing cheap young big. a first to sweeten.

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.ph ... id=4877733

madmaxmedia · Post #17 » by **madmaxmedia** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:06 am

That is the kind of trade that doesn't make sense for the Clippers- there's no point to trade Kaman for could be and should be type players. We don't really have a need to look for expiring contracts either.

Clint Eastwood · Post #18 » by **Clint Eastwood** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:45 pm

madmaxmedia wrote:That is the kind of trade that doesn't make sense for the Clippers- there's no point to trade Kaman for could be and should be type players. We don't really have a need to look for expiring contracts either.

really? why? kaman isnt going to fetch you an upgrade over davis, camby or randolph. gordon looks like the real deal, and thornton is your young stud small forward. kaman is a nice player, but injury prone on a pretty big deal for a reserve. if you are going to replace him (which i think you should just keep him) why wouldnt you want a future replacement for camby, who is gone in 2 years? and a nice peice in gooden for this year as a PF/C off the bench. and we give you a potential lottery pick this year, or at least a mid first rounder. to me, if you make a decision to trade kaman, this kind of return would be ideal.

theFRANCHISE · Post #19 » by **theFRANCHISE** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:52 pm

Honestly I think KAMAN should stay and just have him come off the bench in a 6th man role. Unless, the clippers can get some good scoring SG or SF to boost their bench, then I say do it. I think his injuries early can be attributed to him playing in the Olympics this past summer.

madmaxmedia · Post #20 » by **madmaxmedia** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:04 pm

The first is something to consider. But besides that, we don't need eventual replacements for Camby, or someone who could develop and become a contributor, etc. Kaman is a very solid contributor RIGHT NOW. And the Clippers are not in the position to worry about replacing Camby down the road.

If the Clippers were better than they are right now and wanted to move Kaman for whatever reason, then I think your proposal would make sense. But that's not the case, and I don't think the Clippers would want to move Kaman for a package of pieces. Jason Richardson was previously rumored, that's a 1-for-1 (with salary filler) that I think would make more sense for this Clipper team.

Clint Eastwood wrote:really? why? kaman isnt going to fetch you an upgrade over davis, camby or randolph. gordon looks like the real deal, and thornton is your young stud small forward. kaman is a nice player, but injury prone on a pretty big deal for a reserve. if you are going to replace him (which i think you should just keep him) why wouldnt you want a future replacement for camby, who is gone in 2 years? and a nice peice in gooden for this year as a PF/C off the bench. and we give you a potential lottery pick this year, or at least a mid first rounder. to me, if you make a decision to trade kaman, this kind of return would be ideal.