Marbury To Attend Knicks-Lakers Game As Fan?

[Sedale Threatt]

Erik,

The way I take D'Antoni's statement is that, for him to be effective, he needs to have the ball in his hands almost exclusively.

The only problem with that is, he's basically a bigger, less explosive version of Allen Iverson -- a shoot-first guard who, despite his impressive assist totals, has never come close to running the offense as a pure PG would, which is exactly what D'Antoni's system needs.

The assists almost come by accident, because he is unquestionably a talented player. But he wants to score, first and foremost, and he's not particularly efficient at it.

Look at his %s. Even in his best years he was a crappy 3-point shooter, and a streaky shooter in general. His main skill is getting to the basket, for his own benefit, and I'm having a difficult time figuring out how that's going to help us considering we already have another player in Kobe who dominates the ball.

Because, mark these words, Stephon is simply not built to be a selfless creator who survives on defense and entry passes and spot-up shots. It's just not in his DNA.

[milesfides]

When did I say that Marbury had no fault in any of this? That's a straw man argument.

Like I said, he was immature. But you can't blame him solely for New Jersey's struggles and Phoenix's loss to San Antonio in the playoffs.

You're saying he's a "professional bridge builder." I argued that your comment is lazy, prejudiced, and unsubstantiated, and I gave my evidence. You haven't responded to any of that, but construed a straw man argument claiming that I don't hold Marbury guilty of anything.

I have specified throughout this thread the extent of his failures and deficiencies.

He was immature for wanting to leave Minnesota, but he manned up in a television interview, “I want to call K. G. and tell him I’m sorry for anything that ever happened and anything that’s ever been done or said between us.” (nytimes.com)

How's that for an attitude problem? For accountability?

I have acknowledged his deficiencies, but I'd like to hear the concrete evidence of all the prejudiced, unsubstantiated character attacks.

I mean, he's been pegged a "Coach Killer" in the media. That's ridiculous. Flip and Scott were fired years after Marbury left, and Marbury had a great relationship with Scott Skiles who simply was canned along with Marbury in the whole Sarver-D'Antoni takeover. And Isiah Thomas is his own problem.

From the New York Daily News:

"Marbury eventually realized that, sometimes admitting he blew it in early-morning calls to Saunders, who always lent a sympathetic ear to his former playmaker, no matter how late the call. Saunders provided guidance, a shoulder to cry on. It was the least he could do."

"I always found Steph very professional and very coachable."

"When you're going through tough times and you're a talented individual, I just think you need to get to a place, whether it's here or somewhere else, where he gets a smile back on his face. Once he gets his smile back, he's going to be productive. People can say what they want, but in reality, Steph is sensitive. Like anyone, you want to be wanted and love, especially where you're playing." (Flip Saunders, Jan 14. 2008).

Yes, Marbury is in a bad situation right now, but he's essentially been kicked to the curb since the very beginning of the season. Donnie Walsch and D'Antoni were actively shopping him in the media by telling reporters how Marbury was in such "great shape" and Walsch openly talked about how he didn't want to buy players out. They didn't give him a chance, but that's not surprising, because again, D'Antoni was the guy who immediately traded Marbury after he gained control in the Suns.

To dismiss that context and put it all on Stephon Marbury, who, once again, worked hard in the offseason and was excited about the season, is...what can I say? Close-minded and prejudiced.

Regarding Kobe, sorry if I incorrectly recalled your perspective on Kobe. I thought you've always respected his basketball skills, but thoroughly despise his personality based on what was reported in the media. It comes as a mild surprise to me that you don't think Kobe chased Shaq out of town or is a rapist, because I honestly thought you argued otherwise, but I'll take your word for it. I remember arguing about this notion of "pre-judging" with you, but I suppose it must have been with somebody else.

And if the reported source is correct, I'm very happy the Lakers are thinking about him, since Boston is as well.

It might be nice to actually see our team upgrade to catch up with Boston's upgrades. Because, like I said, we're trying to figure things out right now, searching, with major holes on our roster, while Boston is playing for more than championships, they're chasing and making history right now.

[Erik Eleven]

There are all shades of grey when it comes to this and it would be detrimental to healthy discussion for both extremes not to recognize that. Let's discuss Marbury and how well he could potentially fill our needs, should we land him.

[Jajwanda]

What he fulfills is that he can do everything that Farmar can and has better quickness to play man-to-man if he forces himself to do so. He's also a more reliable dribble drive penetrating guard than Farmar.

For his first month or so I would seriously consider placing him at the head of a backup "run" unit. His passing to Vujajic, Ariza, Odom, and Powell could light it up giving us serious speed and surprising a few teams.

I truly believe that Kobe and Phil can hold him accountable and it seems that he is liked.

[TonyMontana]

Good post Mang.

I think Marbury was and is the escape goat when it came to certain teams.
He was never credited (Contracts) and he was always blamed (Trades) when in reality you couldnt ask for more from a player.
I liked your post about DAntoni, he did trade Marbury when he took over the Suns, and is it obvious that he was going to do the same when he got to N.Y.
I can respect some of the bad things that Marbury has done in his career, and some was things that would make me think he's not worth it, but like I said and like Miles said, the Lakers arent and they wont be competitive with the Cs and a few other teams in this league.
Yes we are doing just fine FOR NOW, but are we on the same level as other teams?
I would give the guy a shot, if I dont have to give up a lot or if he signs then why not.
Ainge is already taking about signing him, here's what Paul Pierce had to say about Marbury.
Paul Pierce was asked what the Knicks should do with Steph and he answered honestly.

Here’s what he told the NY Daily News

“He makes the biggest contract, and he’s one of the oldest players on the team,” Pierce said yesterday. “That doesn’t really fit into a rebuilding plan, just to be honest.”

“I’d try to trade him or buy him out at this point,” added Pierce, who still believes Marbury can be a starting point guard in the NBA. “I just think he needs a fresh start somewhere else. Marbury needs to be on a veteran team where he fits into what they’re trying to do a little bit more.”


Ya we wont take a chance on him, but the Cs are hovering over him like a vulture.
Were sitting here worrying about our locker room when we have guys like Sasha making plays for us and Vlad sitting on the pine while sucking away millions of dollars to sit there, and our only answer to Vald is LUKE............ Ya lets not take a chance on Marbury, let the Cs do and see how it turns out.
Here's a promise, if they do sign Marbury, I will promise you guys they will be unbeatable for years to come............ Its no wonder everybody laughs at us, if we didnt have Kobe, Pau we would be on the same level as the Thundercats...... Maybe even lower.

[Erik Eleven]

So, if we don't sign Marbury, we suddenly have no shot at anyone else?

There is no doubt that he can ball. Nobody is saying that he can't. Marbury's fit on the Lakers might be questionable for those of us who are critical of him, but could he contribute for stretches on the court on this roster? Of course he can. He's not paid $21M for nothing, well, at least not after he's released from the Knicks.

To me, this comes down to one thing and one thing only — his personality. None of us know him, so we can only guess what he is really like. My guess is that he's an extremely talented stupid guy with a warped self perception that has a hard time playing off the ball and functioning off the court.

I hope the Lakers talk to him thoroughly to see where his head is, and what sort of commitment and sacrifices he seems willing to make in the name of team needs. Can he be taken for his word? That is what should dictate if we go after him or not.

He can help us on the court but it's also possible that he can wreck the good chemistry we have. Let's not be ridiculous and pretend as if he is some kind of mother Teresa. Let's also not pretend as if he can't play basketball at all. If there seems to be no reason to not believe what his claimed intentions are, we should sign him. If there is doubt, don't. I can't make that assessment because I don't know him, nor will I have a chance to talk to him anytime soon. Mitch, on the other hand, has a myriad of ways to find out for sure what's going on in his head.

I'm out.

[ReaListik]

Like Erik said, none of us know the guy personally and we don't know what he'd be like on either the Lakers or Celtics. Though if he's going to screw up a locker room I'd prefer him do that to the Celtics. My point was that it doesn't seem like the guy learns from his mistakes that he's made. I trust Mike D'Antoni because knows a thing or two about getting a group of players together who are great people as well as great players, and he knows how important it is to get that kind of group together.

At the end of the day I'll give full support to whatever the organization decides to do with Marbury.

[Slava]

I don't really think its a question of effectiveness but rather I see the FO not willing to bring in a veteran who will demand equal status to Kobe Bryant as a leader. We seem to have a very young and gullible bunch of guys in the locker room and looking at the leaders on our team right now, its basically Fisher and LO other than Kobe, a couple of guys who have shown their subordination to Kobe right since they were part of the team. Fisher has been Kobe's sidekick right from when he was drafted and he's had Kobe's back during all the Shaq fiasco too.

I feel that the team is in a fine state of balance right now and even the slightest attempt to tip the scales could make it all come crashing down. This is one reason why I think even Odom is not being actively shopped. Phil and team Buss have chosen Kobe as the leader and they want him to do the job his way and they are willing to sacrifice a few flaws with the oncourt performances to not have any distractions with the chemistry.

[TonyMontana]

Guys listen, if we can sign him MLE what do we have to lose?
The guy is very obviously pissed off at the entire Knicks org. and he is running to the end of his career.
He is an ex teammate of Ariza, he is friends with both Kobe and L.O.
DAntoni, Is and will never be a coach on the same level as Phil.
He never liked Marbury and he never will. This guy is a wild bull coming out of a holding cell and once let lose he will tear some ish up.
I doubt that his ego is going to be big since he is being very humble and quiet as you can see the way he is addressing the media.
He knows he cant be above Kobe cause at this time nobody is above Kobe, if anything I think he will be an amazing team player, to win and to be remembered at the end of his career as a palyer that final found a team and teammates to appreciate who he is and what he did.
If not then skip him we'll let him go.

[milesfides]

I don't think anybody is calling Marbury a Mother Teresa. I brought up his charity work and his starbury sneaker to provide some sort of balance to all the negative character attacks in the media.

Like I outlined above, his being a team cancer and a coach killer are unwarranted.

Marbury isn't Miss Congeniality. So what? How does that affect his basketball skills, how does that affect how he can help the team?

Look at the scowl on Kendrick Perkins' face. Nice guy? Or just enough edge to bring grit and toughness to the team?

Kevin Garnett gets into his teammates' faces. He makes them cry. Nice guy? Or a tough leader pushing them to become better?

Chris Paul and David West apparently HATE EACH OTHER on the court, as reported by sports illustrated. These guys scream and yell at each other and bitch about every mistake that the other player does. They do that in order to hold each other accountable.

That's what I find missing on this team. Kobe's always been more of a leader by example, and I think the constant pressure on him to act perfectly on and off the court has essentially defanged or neutered his leadership capacity.

Fisher is an encouraging leader. End of story. Keep your chin up, kid.

We don't have anybody on our team that holds everybody accountable, to challenge each other by getting into each other's faces.

Some of you guys are afraid of what Marbury's personality will do to our team. I'm excited by it.

Destructive? Team cancer? What did he do, aside from demand his teammates to play harder and better, as he did with Van Horn and Luscious Harris and his New Jersey teammates?

This guy averaged 8 assists every year. What kind of selfish, team cancer is that? I would love it if Fish and Farmar could be that kind of selfish. People talk about chemistry - please give me 8 assists any day for chemistry.

This guy has always worked hard, always in shape, always competing.

That there's an edge to him, a swagger, a toughness - I welcome it on our soft team. We can Kumbaya all the way to second place again, or we can push, bite, challenge each other to play greater, to never be complacent, to strive for excellence and demand it from each other.

And that's how I see Marbury. And as much as Marbury respects Kobe off the floor, I'm sure he'll give him a piece of his mind when Kobe tries to do too much, or get into Radamn's ear about playing some damn defense, and generally be that guy that strikes fear into the hearts of opponents as well as his teammates.

I'll say again, I welcome his personality. Thorns and all. Especially the thorns.

[MAMBAEMD]

I appreciate the passion this topic has stirred amongst the many well respected posters. All make good points.
I really don't think he will cause a "chemistry" problem with the Lakers. The Lakers have very solid, strong personalities/leaders that would not allow any chemistry issues to destroy the team. Guys like DFIsh, Kobe, and even Gasol are rock solid veterans and would not allow Marbury or anyone else destroy what has been established in the Laker locker room over the years.
The reason I'm not convinced Marbury would help us that much is that we need a defensive presence at the PG position. Perimeter defense is our Achilles heel. Pick & Roll D and the ability of the PGs o stay in front of the opposing guards has killed us this year.
I have no doubt Marbury would bring toughness and some scoring punch, but what does he have to offer on defense?
To me that is a big question mark.

[Erik Eleven]

We sure need thorns. But I don't know him enough to make the distinction if it's thorns or simply grave stupidity. I'll leave that to the GM staff, and I'll support their decision. It's not like they haven't talked about it and analyzed it in depth.

[kenspiracy]

Im with Miles on this one. Marbury hasn't really played with talent like the Lakers. And right now his legs are fresh and he is motivated now more then ever.

I live in NY and I have watched Marbury play. And I can assure you he would be an upgrade defensively over both Fisher and Farmar. He is a good finisher, a solid jumpshooter, and very good at creating plays for others. Another thing Marbury brings to the table is talking on offense and defense. Which is great for the team spirit when we face teams like SA and Boston. And creates focus snand stbility.

If I am Mitch I am seriously considering Marbury. Not to mention he adds toughness.

[Sedale Threatt]

Again, I'm absolutely dumbfounded at the notion that Stephon Marbury is going to improve our focus and stability, or that he's somehow the missing piece towards navigating the incredibly arduous journey ahead despite never having come close to experiencing it himself.

But I suppose we shall see how it all plays out. What would a Lakers season be without a little drama? Sorry, but Jordan's quest for role clarification doesn't quite do it for me.

I do know that the notion of signing Marbury to prevent Boston from getting him might not be an issue. There's an item on SI.com speculating that if the Knicks do indeed buy him out they'll likely include some sort of stipulation that he not sign with any other Atlantic Division teams, which includes the Celtics. So that probably won't be a factor.

[CX44]

If Marbury signed for the vet minimmum and became a problem the Lakers could waive him and no harm done except to either Fisher or farmar's psyche. Marbury has never played wtih a strong willed player like Kobe. Not sure Kobe wants to bring on another headache midway through the season.

[DubaLakers]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/ ... side_seat/

He wasn't happy with the seats the Lakers offered. Jeannie buss probably offered him a section 300 seat. That tells me the Lakers aren't interested right there.

[Jajwanda]

To be entirely honest with you the solution needs to be two-fold. A Tyronn Lue can help significantly on the quicker PGs with no problem overall.

On the other hand a guy like Sasha can play PG against the bigger PGs or guards the SGs while Kobe guards the PGs. Don't give me the excuse that Kobe's legs will wear out. Ray Allen guards PGs fairly often for the Celtics.