This small ball crap is driving me crazy

cfan79 · Post #1 » by **cfan79** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:46 pm

We need to bring in a big guy as soon as possible. I know its not possible, but its seems like lately Perk, Rondo and Powe are the only one's rebounding out there. Powe and Baby/Scala should not play Center and Power Forward at the same time.

Fencer reregistered · Post #2 » by **Fencer reregistered** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:12 pm

In which particular game(s) were you displeased with the Celtics' overall rebounding?

The last game in which they got neither more rebounds nor more offensive rebounds than the opponent was Philly on Nov. 28, and they won that one by 24 points.

cfan79 · Post #3 » by **cfan79** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:17 pm

I'm alright with small ball against a team like the Knicks, but it seems like its a common occurance in all the games thus far. Too many times Perk or Powe is under the boards by themselves or with Baby or Rondo.

Post #4 » by **ParticleMan** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:33 pm

yeah, we've only won the last 18 times out. time for a change, man! clearly we should have had at least 19 wins over the last 18 games.

cfan79 · Post #5 » by **cfan79** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:35 pm

ParticleMan wrote:yeah, we've only won the last 18 times out. time for a change, man! clearly we should have had at least 19 wins over the last 18 games.

We've won in spite of the bench. The C's long winning streak truly shows how great their starting five is this season.

Kefa461 · Post #6 » by **Kefa461** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:39 pm

Barking at the wind....... 8-)

Ed Pinkney · Post #7 » by **Ed Pinkney** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:00 pm

How many teams play big these days? Not many so it isn't something to worry too much about.

Dave_From_NB · Post #8 » by **Dave_From_NB** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:10 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:In which particular game(s) were you displeased with the Celtics' overall rebounding?

The last game in which they got neither more rebounds nor more offensive rebounds than the opponent was Philly on Nov. 28, and they won that one by 24 points.

He's referring to the bench guys when he is talking about Powe/Davis/Scal, although it's mixed up a bit with Perk and Rondo in the discussion. Small Ball I think is being referred to what the bench is.

Powe and Davis managed 1 defensive rebound between them against Chicago.

The entire bench totalled zero rebounds first half against Chicago.

Powe and Scal managed 2 defensive rebounds between them again NYK.

Thank goodness we have that rebounding machine, Eddie House, to pick up the rebounds when Perk and KG are taking a break.

(Edited, to 2 defensive RB's against NYK)

cfan79 · Post #9 » by **cfan79** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:31 pm

Dave_From_NB wrote:
He's referring to the bench guys when he is talking about Powe/Davis/Scal, although it's mixed up a bit with Perk and Rondo in the discussion. Small Ball I think is being referred to what the bench is.

Powe and Davis managed 1 defensive rebound between them against Chicago.

The entire bench totalled zero rebounds first half against Chicago.

Powe and Scal managed 1 defensive rebound between them again NYK.

Thank goodness we have that rebounding machine, Eddie House, to pick up the rebounds when Perk and KG are taking a break.

Whoa I didn't realize how right I was until you pointed the rebound totals out. Thanks for the info.

Post #10 » by **ParticleMan** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:49 pm

it's all well and good to say that we need more height, which we do, but there are 2 problems:
1. to get something, you have to give up something. if we sign someone or trade for someone, who do we get rid of? and what can we get in return?
2. just because someone is tall doesn't mean they are better. otherwise POB would be starting over perk.

i agree davis is not a great rebounder, but powe is pretty ferocious. scal of course sucks, but he's not usually even in the rotation. obviously it'd be great to get tim duncan, but be realistic. i don't see a lot of options better than what we have (and don't start with the PJ Brown crap-- he sucked while he was here). i'm just hoping POB can gain a clue in time to help us in the playoffs.

Dave_From_NB · Post #11 » by **Dave_From_NB** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:52 pm

ParticleMan wrote:it's all well and good to say that we need more height, which we do, but there are 2 problems:
1. to get something, you have to give up something. if we sign someone or trade for someone, who do we get rid of? and what can we get in return?
2. just because someone is tall doesn't mean they are better. otherwise POB would be starting over perk.

i agree davis is not a great rebounder, but powe is pretty ferocious. scal of course sucks, but he's not usually even in the rotation. obviously it'd be great to get tim duncan, but be realistic. i don't see a lot of options better than what we have (and don't start with the PJ Brown crap-- he sucked while he was here). i'm just hoping POB can gain a clue in time to help us in the playoffs.

Powe is a ferocious offensive rebounder, defensive not so much. Per 36 minutes, Powe grabs 4.8 defensive rebounds, compared to 7.2 for Perk, 8.3 for KG, and 4.9 for PP. Actually, Rondo almost boards as many DRB as Powe, at 4.5. In fact Davis, who I also agree isn't a good rebounder, is at 4.3. Just for trivia sake since I know he doesn't play many minutes so it isn't a good indicator, POB is at 10.2 DRB per 36 minutes.

I do agree though, that there is no easy answer unless POB gets it soon. That Scal got backup Big minutes last night with Davis out, I think must be a pretty good indication that POB has a ways to go to be of help.

billfromBoston · Post #12 » by **billfromBoston** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:10 am

What is the off/def rebounding breakdown for Powe and Davis from last season? I have a hard time drawing trend conclusions from a single season in which both players average less than 17 mpg....if it has been consistent throughout each of the last two years i'd be more inclined to accept it as a trend...

...I'd also like to point out that offensive rebounds are typically of a higher value than defensive rebounds, so if the "small ball" lineup isn't giving up a ton of offensive rebounds collectively, then I am having trouble finding issue with this element of their game.

TA42 · Post #13 » by **TA42** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:11 am

We definitely need some bigs for the second unit...been seeing a bit too much of Scal lately and Big Baby seems to be struggling with his role.

captain_cheapseats · Post #14 » by **captain_cheapseats** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:18 am

ParticleMan wrote:it's all well and good to say that we need more height, which we do, but there are 2 problems:
1. to get something, you have to give up something. if we sign someone or trade for someone, who do we get rid of? and what can we get in return?
2. just because someone is tall doesn't mean they are better. otherwise POB would be starting over perk.

i agree davis is not a great rebounder, but powe is pretty ferocious. scal of course sucks, but he's not usually even in the rotation. obviously it'd be great to get tim duncan, but be realistic. i don't see a lot of options better than what we have (and don't start with the PJ Brown crap-- he sucked while he was here). i'm just hoping POB can gain a clue in time to help us in the playoffs.

I pretty much agree with everything above. I wouldn't mind a small deal swapping Baby and filler for an equal player with more length (?idk, Birdman maybe?), but think making a big move or bringing in a crappy vet just for the sake of getting taller would be a mistake.

Bad-Thoma · Post #15 » by **Bad-Thoma** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:45 am

What's our record again? Last I heard we were doing all right...

Eh, to get sucked in, getting a Motumbo-esque vet would be nice (at least in theory), but there's not a lot out there that is realistic and there is really no need to panic at this point. If Motumbo will come to Boston, so be it, or if an upgrade worth bothering with shakes out around the trade deadline so be it.

Dave_From_NB · Post #16 » by **Dave_From_NB** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:32 pm

billfromBoston wrote:What is the off/def rebounding breakdown for Powe and Davis from last season? I have a hard time drawing trend conclusions from a single season in which both players average less than 17 mpg....if it has been consistent throughout each of the last two years i'd be more inclined to accept it as a trend...

...I'd also like to point out that offensive rebounds are typically of a higher value than defensive rebounds, so if the "small ball" lineup isn't giving up a ton of offensive rebounds collectively, then I am having trouble finding issue with this element of their game.

Powe is down 1.1 DRB from last year, Davis the same.

Someone with better sources than me could maybe take a crack at it with more accuracy. The Chicago game, the Chicago bench grabbed 8 O rebounds, Noah had 4 himself. The NYK game, the Knicks didn't grab many O rebounds all game. Although at the half our bench were generally around -10, and you're not giving up O rebounds when the other team is scoring on you...