Hey..the Kings are playing tonight!

RIPskaterdude · Post #1 » by **RIPskaterdude** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:07 am

And currently are winning...

Hawes shooting terrible again

SacKingZZZ · Post #2 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:18 am

Yeah, Hawes is struggling. I can see why Toronto is having a tough time this year, they desperately need a guard that can get them some points. I understand the interest in Salmons if true.

RIPskaterdude · Post #3 » by **RIPskaterdude** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:35 am

Another game, another loss.

BMiller52 · Post #4 » by **BMiller52** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:25 am

Salmons makes my eyes bleed.

Post #5 » by **KF10** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:10 am

Who thinks that Hawes is playing out of position at the PF spot? Well, he can play some minutes like 10-15ish minutes but not starter minutes IMO. Since Hawes started, he struggled. I really think the management needs to think about this one.

RIPskaterdude · Post #6 » by **RIPskaterdude** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:10 am

BMiller52 wrote:The entire Kings team makes my eyes bleed.

fixed.

SacKingZZZ · Post #7 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:46 am

kingsfan10 wrote:Who thinks that Hawes is playing out of position at the PF spot? Well, he can play some minutes like 10-15ish minutes but not starter minutes IMO. Since Hawes started, he struggled. I really think the management needs to think about this one.

If you are going to play Brad and Spencer together it has to be for a reason. That reason is because we are going to run plays through them at the high post and it simply is not being done, wasn't being done when Reggie was coaching either even though he said that was the type of team we were. Anyway I really would like to see Jason and Spencer starting these games, it's time, at least once and awhile they need to give it a shot.

I think his struggles have a lot more to do with his inside play and him adjusting to it. Don't forget we are not using Spencer in the same way AT ALL. How many times have you seen him coming off a screen and firing off a jumpshot lately? It's what they said they were going to do and I am glad they are finally doing it. Natt said they know Spencer can shoot, they want to see him mix it up inside and this a totally necessary part of his development. A lot of his misses are coming off of missed tip ins, sometimes 2-3 at a time and I think it looks a lot worse than it is, yes, they are easy shots but Spencer is beating himself up over tip ins! He needs to understand it's not going to go in every time, in fact, he should concetrate more on the getting the board and reseting the offense IMO.

It's kind of strange, maybe even positive, but his D, shotblocking, and his rebounding (i.e. big man skills) are way ahead of his offense at this point. These were all the parts of his game people criticized and now that he is showing he does indeed have these skills when he puts it all together that could mean we have a HUGE part of our future.

Post #8 » by **KF10** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:12 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:
If you are going to play Brad and Spencer together it has to be for a reason. That reason is because we are going to run plays through them at the high post and it simply is not being done, wasn't being done when Reggie was coaching either even though he said that was the type of team we were. Anyway I really would like to see Jason and Spencer starting these games, it's time, at least once and awhile they need to give it a shot.

I think his struggles have a lot more to do with his inside play and him adjusting to it. Don't forget we are not using Spencer in the same way AT ALL. How many times have you seen him coming off a screen and firing off a jumpshot lately? It's what they said they were going to do and I am glad they are finally doing it. Natt said they know Spencer can shoot, they want to see him mix it up inside and this a totally necessary part of his development. A lot of his misses are coming off of missed tip ins, sometimes 2-3 at a time and I think it looks a lot worse than it is, yes, they are easy shots but Spencer is beating himself up over tip ins! He needs to understand it's not going to go in every time, in fact, he should concetrate more on the getting the board and reseting the offense IMO.

It's kind of strange, maybe even positive, but his D, shotblocking, and his rebounding (i.e. big man skills) are way ahead of his offense at this point. These were all the parts of his game people criticized and now that he is showing he does indeed have these skills when he puts it all together that could mean we have a HUGE part of our future.

Good post. I do see a different style within Hawes. More post play for him. But unfortunately, it is not falling for him. He seems to be confuse of what to do. Like he is saying to himself "Should I do a half spin, a pump fake, an up and under and then a hook shot?" Well recently, I see him limiting himself to a hook shot. Which IMO is really good. I know Hawes has a wealth of post moves in his head but he needs a go to move. Like the hook shot that I mentioned.

And knowing that he isn't that built against the stronger PF/C in the NBA i.e Bynums, Shaq, Oden, Howards and etc. (Even though, he did played Bynum well at one match up iirc) To be successful in the post, he needs to have more muscle mass. I'm glad that he shed all his fat away from last year and did kinda put some strength in him but he needs to continue to put on more. Which I believe he will. He will be a beast in the post IMO.

I do kinda agree with the defense>offense for Hawes. Hawes dramatically improved on the defensive side. His defensive instincts and awareness just increased...tons. I give Hawes props for improving his major "weakness". But his offense has been better as well. He really improved his three point game (even though, I don't want a post player like Hawes shooting a 3..) which is cool. Overall, his offense has been really fluid and smooth. (Well, except when he started PF for us).

To be honest, I rather see Hawes starting at center. At that position, (well, first of all, that is natural position.) he seems more comfortable and more relaxed. The game comes to him a bit better. But the problem is Brad Miller is our starting center. That is why I kinda want Miller traded. (Even though, I hate to see him leave IMO) Jason Thompson should starts at the PF position and Hawes at the center. We need these guys getting their legs wet more. Our season is kinda over since last month, so I kinda expect the youngsters to play a bit more. But I still believe that winning games is important and we need the best combination of players to accomplish that.

Overall, I could have been wrong about Hawes playing out of position (the PF position). He is just adjusting to the post play. But as is right now, he should get his act together and produce. (Hey! He is on my fantasy roster. He is under-producing for me.

)

Post #9 » by **ICMTM** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:58 pm

I refused to go to this game.

Cruel_Ruin · Post #10 » by **Cruel_Ruin** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:37 pm

I think Hawes has trouble finishing his hooks when there is a legitimate post defender guarding him. The contact that he gets when there are actual opponents bodying him up throws his finishing moves off. I get the feeling that Hawes practiced his hooks all summer, but he needs to be able to finish with a 6'10 bruiser leaning on him like in actual game situations.

Post #11 » by **pillwenney** » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:57 pm

SacKingZZZ wrote:

If you are going to play Brad and Spencer together it has to be for a reason. That reason is because we are going to run plays through them at the high post and it simply is not being done, wasn't being done when Reggie was coaching either even though he said that was the type of team we were. Anyway I really would like to see Jason and Spencer starting these games, it's time, at least once and awhile they need to give it a shot.

I think his struggles have a lot more to do with his inside play and him adjusting to it. Don't forget we are not using Spencer in the same way AT ALL. How many times have you seen him coming off a screen and firing off a jumpshot lately? It's what they said they were going to do and I am glad they are finally doing it. Natt said they know Spencer can shoot, they want to see him mix it up inside and this a totally necessary part of his development. A lot of his misses are coming off of missed tip ins, sometimes 2-3 at a time and I think it looks a lot worse than it is, yes, they are easy shots but Spencer is beating himself up over tip ins! He needs to understand it's not going to go in every time, in fact, he should concetrate more on the getting the board and reseting the offense IMO.

It's kind of strange, maybe even positive, but his D, shotblocking, and his rebounding (i.e. big man skills) are way ahead of his offense at this point. These were all the parts of his game people criticized and now that he is showing he does indeed have these skills when he puts it all together that could mean we have a HUGE part of our future.

WOAH! Woah, woah woah....explain.

SacKingZZZ · Post #12 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:47 am

mitchweber wrote:
WOAH! Woah, woah woah....explain.

Explain what? Natt said they know Spencer can shoot the ball but they want to see him work in the post and get a level of comfort down there. Both Jason and Spencer are working quite a bit in the post, if you watch the preshow before the games you always see Spencer or Jason working with Shareef.

BTW has anyone else noticed the spin moves from Jason and Spencer? Both have done pretty good with it so far, clearly they are picking up some things from Reef.

SacKingZZZ · Post #13 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:57 am

kingsfan10 wrote:

Good post. I do see a different style within Hawes. More post play for him. But unfortunately, it is not falling for him. He seems to be confuse of what to do. Like he is saying to himself "Should I do a half spin, a pump fake, an up and under and then a hook shot?" Well recently, I see him limiting himself to a hook shot. Which IMO is really good. I know Hawes has a wealth of post moves in his head but he needs a go to move. Like the hook shot that I mentioned.

And knowing that he isn't that built against the stronger PF/C in the NBA i.e Bynums, Shaq, Oden, Howards and etc. (Even though, he did played Bynum well at one match up iirc) To be successful in the post, he needs to have more muscle mass. I'm glad that he shed all his fat away from last year and did kinda put some strength in him but he needs to continue to put on more. Which I believe he will. He will be a beast in the post IMO.

I do kinda agree with the defense>offense for Hawes. Hawes dramatically improved on the defensive side. His defensive instincts and awareness just increased...tons. I give Hawes props for improving his major "weakness". But his offense has been better as well. He really improved his three point game (even though, I don't want a post player like Hawes shooting a 3..) which is cool. Overall, his offense has been really fluid and smooth. (Well, except when he started PF for us).

To be honest, I rather see Hawes starting at center. At that position, (well, first of all, that is natural position.) he seems more comfortable and more relaxed. The game comes to him a bit better. But the problem is Brad Miller is our starting center. That is why I kinda want Miller traded. (Even though, I hate to see him leave IMO) Jason Thompson should starts at the PF position and Hawes at the center. We need these guys getting their legs wet more. Our season is kinda over since last month, so I kinda expect the youngsters to play a bit more. But I still believe that winning games is important and we need the best combination of players to accomplish that.

Overall, I could have been wrong about Hawes playing out of position (the PF position). He is just adjusting to the post play. But as is right now, he should get his act together and produce. (Hey! He is on my fantasy roster. He is under-producing for me. )

I think that is exactly what's happening. Even Jerry Reynolds mentioned it during one of the broadcasts a few games ago. As for Spencer playing PF, I don't think it's him being out of position more than him kind of also being the 4th or 5th option at times. Both he and Jason get the ball and they automatically look like they figure they won't be getting the ball back anytime soon so they have to do something with it right then and there. There really is no other reason to play Brad and Spencer together unless they are going to use their shooting and passing skills. We have John out there and he is fine going iso (which is a reason why I think he doesn't fit long term BTW), then we have Beno dribbling into traffic, Garcia waving guys off, etc. There just isn't a plan of attack, they are trying to put Spencer in the role of Mikki Moore, which if that's what you want just play Mikki Moore!

Winning is important but I believe when something isn't working you at least try something different. I think it's pretty safe to say whatever they're doing isn't working even if you rank winning above development time.

Post #14 » by **pillwenney** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:45 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:
mitchweber wrote:
WOAH! Woah, woah woah....explain.

Explain what? Natt said they know Spencer can shoot the ball but they want to see him work in the post and get a level of comfort down there. Both Jason and Spencer are working quite a bit in the post, if you watch the preshow before the games you always see Spencer or Jason working with Shareef.

BTW has anyone else noticed the spin moves from Jason and Spencer? Both have done pretty good with it so far, clearly they are picking up some things from Reef.

Never mind. I'm an idiot. I just completely misread something.

Post #15 » by **KF10** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:01 am

SacKingZZZ wrote:
I think that is exactly what's happening. Even Jerry Reynolds mentioned it during one of the broadcasts a few games ago. As for Spencer playing PF, I don't think it's him being out of position more than him kind of also being the 4th or 5th option at times. Both he and Jason get the ball and they automatically look like they figure they won't be getting the ball back anytime soon so they have to do something with it right then and there. There really is no other reason to play Brad and Spencer together unless they are going to use their shooting and passing skills. We have John out there and he is fine going iso (which is a reason why I think he doesn't fit long term BTW), then we have Beno dribbling into traffic, Garcia waving guys off, etc. There just isn't a plan of attack, they are trying to put Spencer in the role of Mikki Moore, which if that's what you want just play Mikki Moore!

Winning is important but I believe when something isn't working you at least try something different. I think it's pretty safe to say whatever they're doing isn't working even if you rank winning above development time.

While placing Hawes at the PF position, I do believe that we are just under-utilizing his skills. Hawes is a way skillful player just to imitate Moore's role. Which he can't really do anyways. (Effective-wise). If we are degrading Hawes into that role. I rather have Hawes coming from the bench backing up Miller. (Which he was great). Moore isn't really special at the PF position but Moore plays the PF position more effective than Hawes IMO. It doesn't means Hawes can't play the PF but given his physical and style aspect of his game, it doesn't really translate to success...yet. Like I said, I want Hawes to be more "built".. More muscle mass. Until than, we should have Hawes more in the center position moreso the PF position.

Well, we are currently like 7-23? Or something like that. IMO the record doesn't reflects how bad we are. It's like we play competitive throughout the game, but we just run out of gas at the end..or the other team are more talented and they pull out for the win at the end. With Natt, it seems like we are giving effort in a constant basis but we are just not translating it into success. I think the absence of Martin affects tremendously to the team. When we had a healthy ball club, Martin and Miller just makes the offense fluid and potent with their back door to the rim, cuts, slashes, and etc. That is why I'm not really panicking just yet. If we had Martin healthy all season long, I'm pretty sure it is safe to say that the Kings team would have been much better. But then again, when do teams get healthy at a constant basis? Not so many.

SacKingZZZ · Post #16 » by **SacKingZZZ** » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:07 am

kingsfan10 wrote:
While placing Hawes at the PF position, I do believe that we are just under-utilizing his skills. Hawes is a way skillful player just to imitate Moore's role. Which he can't really do anyways. (Effective-wise). If we are degrading Hawes into that role. I rather have Hawes coming from the bench backing up Miller. (Which he was great). Moore isn't really special at the PF position but Moore plays the PF position more effective than Hawes IMO. It doesn't means Hawes can't play the PF but given his physical and style aspect of his game, it doesn't really translate to success...yet. Like I said, I want Hawes to be more "built".. More muscle mass. Until than, we should have Hawes more in the center position moreso the PF position.

Well, we are currently like 7-23? Or something like that. IMO the record doesn't reflects how bad we are. It's like we play competitive throughout the game, but we just run out of gas at the end..or the other team are more talented and they pull out for the win at the end. With Natt, it seems like we are giving effort in a constant basis but we are just not translating it into success. I think the absence of Martin affects tremendously to the team. When we had a healthy ball club, Martin and Miller just makes the offense fluid and potent with their back door to the rim, cuts, slashes, and etc. That is why I'm not really panicking just yet. If we had Martin healthy all season long, I'm pretty sure it is safe to say that the Kings team would have been much better. But then again, when do teams get healthy at a constant basis? Not so many.

I still think he should be around 245-250 at the most, he needs to be as mobile as possible since I think his game is and will always be a finesse one. Apparently he only weighs about 233 right now, Donte Greene weighs more than him from what I remember hearing.

I don't know how much better we'd be. When Martin comes back the rotation is going to be even more strained than it is now.