I like Sarver. Flame Away!

[Miklo]

Waving a big foaming finger at the front sit doesn't mean you're passionate. He does seem to have a passion for it I will give you that. But he IS a penny pincher.

Owning a sports franchise is not like owning a deli, a bank or a company that manufactures microchips. When you buy a team you buy an entity that has a deep and historic connection to the community and to its fan base around the world. People put an inordinate amount of passion and emotion into rooting for the franchise and financially support the team with the expectation that there’s going to be a certain level of financial reciprocity on the part of the owner.

You make good points and you definitely have a well-structured argument about the business of sports. I in fact study business, finance specifically with a focus on sports management. And you're partially correct. Owning a sports franchise is different from any other business. But its also very much the same, and you have to distinguish the parallels and contrasts.

A sports franchise certainly is a business that has community ties and is largely based on making the fans/"clients" happy. To support that point you made, look at how Charlotte drove the Hornets out. That, however, is something that Sarver has tried to address from multiple angles. Look at the Arizona/Arizona State ties that he has tried to bring in (even though Kerr is public enemy #1 lately), players included. Look at ticket sales. Many people misunderstand the ownership of franchises. You have to be a little crazy to buy a franchise with the purpose of losing money just to win. That is not shrewd, that is a stupid business decision, period. Every business has the underlying purpose of being successful and making money. You can't just come out and say that even though we have made some AMAZING moves (most recently Hill (shoutout NF33IH )), the sale of this draft pick or the trade of X for a purpose that you as a poster on RGM don't agree with means that management doesn't know what they are doing. I happen to know VERY MUCH in detail all of Sarver's business experience, since I have worked in community banks. In everything he has done he has created ties to communities. Look at San Diego, where he started a chain of community banks that give SBA loans to develop small businesses in the community.

We do say that some of his moves clearly exemplify the agency problem, where it advances his interests at the cost of the fan base. But gambles have to be taken in the NBA and if you ask any GM/owner why they made certain moves, whatever reason they give is legitimate (rebuilding vs. putting pieces in place to win now, etc). We as Suns fans have been very blessed to have a team that can compete for many of the past few years, and a team that while having no rings, has a rich history. But what we don't think about when we complain about management is, look at 20 of the teams in this league who have much worse management, much worse records, and even stupider moves.

[mkot]

The Deng pick killed me, I never said and I will NEVER forgive anyone, and I mean anyone, involved in that. I'm a diehard Duke fan as much as a Suns fan, you think I was okay with management trading that pick?

Sorry if I misread your post but you put it specifically on Mike and that's where I disagreed. I blame BC for that trade. You don't trade the pick before the draft.

D'Antoni bashing nutso...so this entire forum must have been killin ya for the last 4 months.

Not really. If anything, I've been enjoying reading people blasting Porter, Kerr, and Sarver. Haha...

I can't speak to everyone's specific opinions, but 75% of us over the last few months all seem to have the same basic ideas. D'Antoni developed LB, Amare, Boris, JJ1 and JJ2. Wouldn't anyone? Res ipsa loquitor, their talent speaks for itself. Anyone who doesn't develop a monster like Amare, a speed demon like LB, a versatile hard worker like Boris, a pure beast like JoeJ or someone with the shooting touch of JaJo would be fired and killed immediately.

Some people seem to have short memory. JoeJ was a timid player before the year MikeD coach the Suns. He came in and gave him the confidence and put him into a position where he's most comfortable with and had a break out year where he earned that big contract. LB came in as a backup PG, he played the 1 the first year under Mike and he was miserable. Then he realized it was a mistake to play him at the point so he made him a scoring 2 and he had a break out year. Boris was the end of bench scrub before he got traded here. He came from being a scrub on a bad team to a full-time starter on a championship team in a year under MikeD. James Jones played a little bit in Indiana, his shot is inconsistent but MikeD got the most out of the guy. He gave him chance after chance even when he really didn't earn it. Amare wasn't regard as a deadly pick and roll player until MikeD put him in that situation with Nash. He help the development of Nash too. We always wonder who made the system running, well, we know now. Nash can't do it on his own. Give MikeD credit where credit is due. It's not that hard to recognize and appreciate what MikeD had done to this franchise.

Its these other guys who the FO drafted and DA never gave a chance in Hades. You wonder why SarvKerr sold subsequent picks?

Selling picks is always on Sarver, it's cash to his bank account. He can keep spinning it and making lame excuses, but at the end, it's still on him. I don't even blame Kerr on it, he got the order from the boss, and he did the right thing for him. I blame him for his lack of negotiating skills to at least get that pick protected. But Sarver ok'ed the deal.

You can bash someone while still agreeing with some of what they did, or blaming someone else for some things. I blame D'Antoni for what everyone else does - not playing the bench, which directly led to injury-ridden playoff failures.

He didn't have a bench.

If you want to blame Coach D for not holding his players accountable for playing defense, I will drink your kool aid. He came here and put the best 5 players on the court. His first year he had only five. We won 62 games and a JJ injury potentially cost us a championship. After the JJ trade, the Bell acquisition and LB's growth he felt he had 7 starters which all deserved starter minutes, really hard to argue. He generally played 7 guys starter minutes and 1 other guy 10 to 15 minutes a night which averages out to just over 30 minutes per player. Not too many minutes IMO and generally what is done by other coaches around the league.

Seriously, go check out the minutes played during the past few years under MikeD, and then compare them to the Spurs and Mavs the same year. Yes, our big three (Nash, Amare and Marion) actually average LESS minutes than their big three. The Spurs had 9 guys that got over 15 mpg last year, and you could argue they were the most balanced team in the league. And three of those 9 didn't even get 20 minutes a game. On the other hand, we played 8 guys over 15 minutes a game. The biggest difference is that we play our top 6 more minutes and our 7,8,9 guys less. But with our 7,8,9 guys being KT, Jr, and Banks, we don't have as much to work with as SA does. Basically, our 7,8,9 are not competitive, and 10,11,12 are likely to be just benchwarmers for the entire season.

Look back a little more, it is very much on par with what Phil Jackson did with all 6 rings in Chicago and his 3 in LA. There are 8 guys that get over 15 mpg (with some in the high 30s and even into the 40s), and if the other guys on the team play they get 5-10. . The difference is that our 9th and 10th man play in many less games than the other 8 guys. So, in effect, they play less minutes throughout the year, but the mpg for our top 8 are not that different. MJ and Scottie played around 75 combined minutes all the time, and same goes for Kobe and Shaq. But we freak out when Steve and Shawn (or Steve and Raja) add up to the same. I realize Steve is getting older, but so was MJ in those last 3 years.

Yeah, so many people did think everything would be better. But just because we have a limited-experience coach who is a hypocrite as of yet and has mixed ideals, doesn't mean if he doesn't do well that means D'Antoni is the next Phil Jackson!

No one said MikeD is the next Phil Jackson. But surely, MikeD has had better success than what Porter did so far with this team.

EDIT: typos...

[mkot]

I happen to know VERY MUCH in detail all of Sarver's business experience, since I have worked in community banks. In everything he has done he has created ties to communities. Look at San Diego, where he started a chain of community banks that give SBA loans to develop small businesses in the community.

I don't. And I honstly don't care. I'm a fan. I just want a title.

We do say that some of his moves clearly exemplify the agency problem, where it advances his interests at the cost of the fan base. But gambles have to be taken in the NBA and if you ask any GM/owner why they made certain moves, whatever reason they give is legitimate (rebuilding vs. putting pieces in place to win now, etc).

This is the reason that had kept Isiah Thomas employed for years. No A's for effort. I have never subscribed to this line of "reasoning." It is the same crap that got us into the Tom Gugliotta mess. It would have taken balls to admit they have screwed up in offseasons past and there wasn't a good basketball move to be made. They got desperate, and have put the team in an even worse position going forward. Example: the KT trade.

[Frank Lee]

Miklo....your love affair is fierce But nothing can change results.... and that is the true measure of what RSarver has done, (with the aid of Kerr and D'Ant).



It is said best here by the astute Dr. C.Neuron ...

and between the three main players in this 4-5 year drama, they took one of the youngest most exciting teams in the league with nearly unlimited potential and turned it into a old boring underachieving also ran that wont even be that in a few years.



The Suns had the talent and youth to be one of the best teams in the league for years. they had nearly the resources of portland, hell a ton of the resourses portland has were gift wrapped to them from the Suns and it's a combination od Sarver, D'antoni and Kerr's fault. blame them all collectively or individually but that's who screwed it up. Three years ago i cared, now i am barely amused for the train wreck aspect of it all

I think you will find those thoughts echoed by many





And Ill agree with Mkot on a few things.... I could give a rats rearend about what Rarver does outside of the Suns.....



then this little gem

If Sarver isn't cheap, then he's an idiot...,

Take your pick

[Amen316]

Go get em Frank!

I think you had a lot of fun with that..