Cavs/Bobcats/Kings - really realistic trade

[heathmalc]

Here is an idea that seems to make some sense:

Cleveland Cavaliers
Incoming Players

Sean May
Salary: $2,661,027 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 4.3 REB: 3.3 AST: 0.6 PER: 6.61

Gerald Wallace
Salary: $9,500,000 Years Remaining: 4
PTS: 16.8 REB: 7.9 AST: 2.4 PER: 18.65

Nazr Mohammed
Salary: $6,049,400 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 2.7 REB: 1.7 AST: 0.3 PER: 8.99

Outgoing Players: Jawad Williams, Wally Szczerbiak, Darnell Jackson

Sacramento Kings
Incoming Players

Jawad Williams
Salary: $442,114 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 0.7 REB: 0.0 AST: 0.0 PER: 26.37

Wally Szczerbiak
Salary: $13,775,000 Years Remaining: 1
PTS: 6.6 REB: 2.6 AST: 0.9 PER: 10.99

Darnell Jackson
Salary: $450,000 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 1.7 REB: 2.1 AST: 0.1 PER: 0.95
2009 1st round pick , 2010 2nd round pick from Cavs
Outgoing Players: John Salmons, Mikki Moore, Brad Miller

Charlotte Bobcats
Incoming Players

John Salmons
Salary: $5,104,000 Years Remaining: 3
PTS: 19.5 REB: 3.5 AST: 3.2 PER: 17.02

Mikki Moore
Salary: $5,632,200 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 4.4 REB: 4.3 AST: 0.7 PER: 9.50

Brad Miller
Salary: $11,375,000 Years Remaining: 2
PTS: 11.6 REB: 7.6 AST: 3.4 PER: 15.56
2009 2nd round pick to Charlotte, 2011 1st round pick (top 10 protected) from Cavs
Outgoing Players: Sean May, Gerald Wallace, Nazr Mohammed

For Cavaliers: They get a couple more bigs to help the roster, Gerald Wallace to add as Dominant 6th man, they keep Sasha, and they keep Snow..so Dan Gilbert can get benefit of insurance and the cap-refund... plus a disabled player exception they could use if they wanted to cut Kinsey of May. They lose some picks... but with the way their roster will look...it wont matter much. Cavs keep 2010 1st round pick, which will have more big men quality in it than the 09 draft.

For Charlotte: The Bobcats do as well as the Cavaliers in this deal. They get back a lesser version of Wallace, with a better jump-shot... and a very cap-friendly contract. They get 2 7-footers who strengthen their big-man rotation considerably...and may be able to use either of them next year before the deadline to acquire an even better young big. They also pick-up a 1st and second round draft pick.

For Sacramento: The Kings have a ton of wing players, and the only player they lose in this deal is a guy who's been a bench player his entire career...but had a dramatic increase in PER,etc at 29 (kinda fishy)... This is a HUGE salary dump for them, and they get a free look at Jawad Williams, who may surprise a lot of people. They also get a young PF in the mold of Ben Wallace, who may turn into something that will be with them for a long time. In-addition, they gain a 1st round pick for this summer, and a 2nd round pick for 2010.

Okay, flame away.

[Rise Against]

How many unrealistic trades are you going to come up with?

[bcortell]

Heath- just post your trades on the Trade board- you make enough of them. Plus, then you can get fans from all the teams to flame you.

[heathmalc]

How many unrealistic trades are you going to come up with?

Dunno why you think it's so unrealistic.

[Mr2400]

Garcia, Salmons, and Martin are the wings for the Kings. How exactly is that a ton, especially considering that Martin (their best player) just came off of an ankle injury? There's one portion that makes it unrealistic.

Williams and Jackson are virtually worthless to the kings at this point. they already have hawes developing and they just drafted Donte Greene who they will also try and develop. 2 other young bigs who haven't even shown to be anywhere near Ben Wallace is the last thing they need. There's your second unrealistic portion.

It's a good move for Cleveland and probably a lateral move for Charlotte, but definitely not something Sacramento would do in the right mind.

[Rise Against]

Basically, there is no reason why Sacramento would do this. Salmons is the Kings best player in place of Kevin Martin. Not sure why Sac would want to trade him? They are looking to rebuild right now, not trade for another SG along with a couple of rookies who hasn't played much minutes.

Then you have Charlotte.. Giving up practically their best player for a couple aging big men.

[witnessmoboobie]

I would do it in a flash if we could get away with it, but as Exile and MR2400 pointed out, the trade is unrealistic for the Kings. I do really want to get Wallace, but I imagine it will be in a two-team trade not a a three-way. Our problem is matching up the money properly assuming we use Wally's contract.

[heathmalc]

by Mr2400 on Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:23 am
Garcia, Salmons, and Martin are the wings for the Kings. How exactly is that a ton, especially considering that Martin (their best player) just came off of an ankle injury? There's one portion that makes it unrealistic.

Williams and Jackson are virtually worthless to the kings at this point. they already have hawes developing and they just drafted Donte Greene who they will also try and develop. 2 other young bigs who haven't even shown to be anywhere near Ben Wallace is the last thing they need. There's your second unrealistic portion.

It's a good move for Cleveland and probably a lateral move for Charlotte, but definitely not something Sacramento would do in the right mind.

Well, Donte and Quincy are both also wing players. However, the real reason that the Kings do it is because the Maloofs have publicly said that they want to be under the cap, and want to get rid of all the players on their team that are not part of their future.

John Salmons is not part of their future. Hell, the only reason he hasn't been moved already is because he has a decent contract, and up until the end of last year, the Kings thought they could rebuild on the fly.

Basically, there is no reason why Sacramento would do this. Salmons is the Kings best player in place of Kevin Martin. Not sure why Sac would want to trade him? They are looking to rebuild right now, not trade for another SG along with a couple of rookies who hasn't played much minutes.

Then you have Charlotte.. Giving up practically their best player for a couple aging big men.

Salmons is 29 years old, he has never produced at a high level until this season. He is not a part of the King's future. The purpose of getting rookies is so you can rebuild with youth...as you can't rebuild with middling veterans. The biggest reason the Kings do it is that they save 26 million dollars (maybe you throw away money...but since the Kings are LOSING money...they'd like to limit their losses), and they get 2 draft picks...which is exactly what Petrie (GM) said he wanted to get out of those contracts.

As for Charlotte - The Bobcats are losing even more money. So much, in-fact, that Michael Jordan wouldn't approve a trade that improved the team's big-man situation earlier this season, because it added 150K to the team's salary cap.

By doing this trade, the Bobcats save 22 million, get the bigs that Larry Brown wants to make the team competitive while it rebuilds, and they get Salmons, who is a poor man's version of Wallace.... plus they get two picks - to assist with the rebuilding effort.

The ONLY reason this trade probably wouldn't happen... is not because of the reasons you guys have outlined, but because it brings quite a few more pieces to the Cavaliers.... and this far into the season (a season that we are do real well), the Cavs may not want to change that much personnel... even though they don't play a lot... they ARE around the team all day, and ARE part of the Cavalier family. THAT would be the only reason this sort of trade didn't go down.

[Mr2400]

by Mr2400 on Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:23 am
Garcia, Salmons, and Martin are the wings for the Kings. How exactly is that a ton, especially considering that Martin (their best player) just came off of an ankle injury? There's one portion that makes it unrealistic.

Williams and Jackson are virtually worthless to the kings at this point. they already have hawes developing and they just drafted Donte Greene who they will also try and develop. 2 other young bigs who haven't even shown to be anywhere near Ben Wallace is the last thing they need. There's your second unrealistic portion.

It's a good move for Cleveland and probably a lateral move for Charlotte, but definitely not something Sacramento would do in the right mind.

Well, Donte and Quincy are both also wing players. However, the real reason that the Kings do it is because the Maloofs have publicly said that they want to be under the cap, and want to get rid of all the players on their team that are not part of their future.

John Salmons is not part of their future. Hell, the only reason he hasn't been moved already is because he has a decent contract, and up until the end of last year, the Kings thought they could rebuild on the fly.

Donte hasn't even been getting consistent minutes this season. Quincy Douby is 6'3, definitely not a wing player. He is also injured, and hadn't even seen consistent rotation minutes when he wasn't. Salmons may not be a real part of their future, but they don't need to be shoving him out the door either. He's a good mentor and veteran presence for them, and he is also a bargain 19ppg scorer this year.

The only reason salmons hasn't been moved is Martin was injured and they needed him more than ever at that point. he is also their second best player, so they don't to try and trade him just yet. they aren't paying him much, so they can wait for the right offer to come along (if it ever does).

[Mr2400]

Salmons is 29 years old, he has never produced at a high level until this season. He is not a part of the King's future. The purpose of getting rookies is so you can rebuild with youth...as you can't rebuild with middling veterans. The biggest reason the Kings do it is that they save 26 million dollars (maybe you throw away money...but since the Kings are LOSING money...they'd like to limit their losses), and they get 2 draft picks...which is exactly what Petrie (GM) said he wanted to get out of those contracts.

As for Charlotte - The Bobcats are losing even more money. So much, in-fact, that Michael Jordan wouldn't approve a trade that improved the team's big-man situation earlier this season, because it added 150K to the team's salary cap.

By doing this trade, the Bobcats save 22 million, get the bigs that Larry Brown wants to make the team competitive while it rebuilds, and they get Salmons, who is a poor man's version of Wallace.... plus they get two picks - to assist with the rebuilding effort.

The ONLY reason this trade probably wouldn't happen... is not because of the reasons you guys have outlined, but because it brings quite a few more pieces to the Cavaliers.... and this far into the season (a season that we are do real well), the Cavs may not want to change that much personnel... even though they don't play a lot... they ARE around the team all day, and ARE part of the Cavalier family. THAT would be the only reason this sort of trade didn't go down.

It isn't all about money, you know. Please show me where Petrie has ever said that he wants to turn Salmons into picks and cap relief. I live in the bay area and have never heard anything like that out of the sacramento bee or any other source for that matter.

Salmons a poor man's Wallace? You have to be joking. Salmons is not as athletic, a better defender, a better shooter, and cost about half as much. Salmons is even averaging more points this year (assists as well).

You seem to be ignoring solid facts and arguments from a few people to convince yourself that the reason this won't happen is what you said. It's like an 8-year old kid screaming "you're all wrong and I'm right no matter what!".This idea just isn't valid

[heathmalc]

It isn't all about money, you know. Please show me where Petrie has ever said that he wants to turn Salmons into picks and cap relief. I live in the bay area and have never heard anything like that out of the sacramento bee or any other source for that matter.

Salmons a poor man's Wallace? You have to be joking. Salmons is not as athletic, a better defender, a better shooter, and cost about half as much. Salmons is even averaging more points this year (assists as well).

You seem to be ignoring solid facts and arguments from a few people to convince yourself that the reason this won't happen is what you said. It's like an 8-year old kid screaming "you're all wrong and I'm right no matter what!".This idea just isn't valid

First of all, if you live in the Bay-area, then you wouldn't be reading the Bee anyway. I know, because I grew-up in Concord... so don't give me your crap. Second, if you want to see where Petrie and Joe said they want to totally start over, and give the young guys playing time and try and move the older players...then READ the Sacramento Bee... that infer that you have read, but obviously haven't/don't!!!! They have only been quoted about 3 million times!

As for your evaluation of Salmons vs Wallace... it is pathetic.

Salmons is not even CLOSE to the defender that Wallace is. He is a better set-shooter... but barely. If you paid ANY attention at all to basketball outside your own little fantasy world, then you'd know that for Salmon's entire career, he has been a BELOW average basketball player. The reason he has the LOW contract that he does, isn't because he is a star...or even a fringe star. On top of all of that, Salmons is an idiot. Wallace is 10X the player Salmons is... and ANYONE who says ANY different, doesn't know squat about basketball.

Oh, and BTW... you're wrong; it IS all about money.

[Mr2400]

It isn't all about money, you know. Please show me where Petrie has ever said that he wants to turn Salmons into picks and cap relief. I live in the bay area and have never heard anything like that out of the sacramento bee or any other source for that matter.

Salmons a poor man's Wallace? You have to be joking. Salmons is not as athletic, a better defender, a better shooter, and cost about half as much. Salmons is even averaging more points this year (assists as well).

You seem to be ignoring solid facts and arguments from a few people to convince yourself that the reason this won't happen is what you said. It's like an 8-year old kid screaming "you're all wrong and I'm right no matter what!".This idea just isn't valid

First of all, if you live in the Bay-area, then you wouldn't be reading the Bee anyway. I know, because I grew-up in Concord... so don't give me your crap. Second, if you want to see where Petrie and Joe said they want to totally start over, and give the young guys playing time and try and move the older players...then READ the Sacramento Bee... that infer that you have read, but obviously haven't/don't!!!! They have only been quoted about 3 million times!

As for your evaluation of Salmons vs Wallace... it is pathetic.

Salmons is not even CLOSE to the defender that Wallace is. He is a better set-shooter... but barely. If you paid ANY attention at all to basketball outside your own little fantasy world, then you'd know that for Salmon's entire career, he has been a BELOW average basketball player. The reason he has the LOW contract that he does, isn't because he is a star...or even a fringe star. On top of all of that, Salmons is an idiot. Wallace is 10X the player Salmons is... and ANYONE who says ANY different, doesn't know squat about basketball.

Oh, and BTW... you're wrong; it IS all about money.

oh really? i live in Stockton, work in downtown Sacramento, and i do get the Bee. Thanks. I never said they didn't want to move older players and get time for young guys. i just said that they were never once quoted saying that they wanted to move salmons for picks and cap relief.

Barely a better set shooter? Salmons is shooting 40% from 3 for this year and 34% for his career. Wallace is shooting 26% from 3 this year and 30% for his career. a 14% difference on the season is a pretty big gap. I know very well that Salmons hasn't really been a good player until the past couple of years. so what? I never once claimed he was a star, and i never once claimed his contract was unfitting (i simply said it was a bargain). What makes you think Salmons is an idiot? I can't remember anything recently that would make me think that. Wallace is a pretty reckless player. They call him "crash" for a reason. Only once in his career has he started more than 70 games. You basically made my argument for me. I said Salmons is not a poor man's wallace, and he isn't. they are 2 different players, and wallace is not all that much better than Salmons (though he is better, and i never said he wasn't). Salmons shoots better and is just coming into his own, a little less athletic, smaller, not as good of a rebounder. Wallace has been pretty good his whole career, super athletic, good size, terrific rebounder, not a good outside shooter. Different players, neither is a poor man's anything. For the amount they are being paid, give me salmons.

I think you took my post a little too personally. I wasn't attacking you at all, just saying that i think salmons is a lot better than you gave him credit for.

[fc_dinamo]

Why do you guys think Sacramento wouldn't do this? They're going nowhere this season. Salmons isn't very popular among the fans (correct me if anyone would dearly miss him)...Miller has no more impact...Moore is also worthless...

Basically, they cut a lot of cost in salary commitment over the next few years and get a player in JJ, who could be a starting player with a little experience. Might as well when you're battling with Golden State and Minny for who will finish 2nd last in the conference...possibly the league...

Not to mention the pick.


For the Kings this trade is an A.
For the Cavs I say B...C+ after tonight. I'm curious as to what JJ can do
For the Cats...not sure how they feel about spending...they basically trade useless players/Wallace who wants out for...3 guys that are not bad support players IF you bring them in around a star player, but in Charlotte's case, they've got nothing of the sorts going...

[spectre_]

As for Charlotte - The Bobcats are losing even more money. So much, in-fact, that Michael Jordan wouldn't approve a trade that improved the team's big-man situation earlier this season, because it added 150K to the team's salary cap.

Sorry to intrude on your board, but I'm curious to know where this came from? Our trade with PHO added about 500k to our salary for this year, so the premise doesn't really jive with reality.