Cavs fans need to quit thinking of 2010

[heathmalc]

For some reason a lot of Cavalier fans have it in their head that the Cavs are trying to keep cap-space for 2010, in-hopes of signing a marquee free-agent to pair with LeBron. What I don't understand, is how so many Cavaliers fans can be so naive.

The Cavaliers, if they sign Varejao (they definitely will), wont have any cap-space for a marquee free-agent in 2010.
Assuming that Varejao signs a 6-year deal in the 60 million range (starting at 8.5 million)... this is what the Cavaliers cap will look like in 2010:
LeBron - 17,149,243 (or 19million hold if he opts out or doesn't re-up in '09)
Mo Williams - 9,300,000
Daniel Gibson - 4,015,334
Delonte West - 4,620,000
D-Block - 854,389
Hickson - 1,495,680
Jawad Williams - 1,029,389
Varejao - 9,000,000

These contracts equal 48,434,646 (assuming LeBron doesn't re-sign this summer)
That is 8 players.... 5 under the league minimum.
Add in the 1st and 2nd round picks for 2009, and you have 50 million
Add-in the cap-hold for the 2010 picks and you have approx 52 million.
Add-in the likely 3-year contract given to Zydrunas, and you have 58 million

And we still only have 13 players ON THE ROSTER!!! We normally have 14 or 15...as does every playoff-caliber team.

The Salary cap will be about 60 million dollars.

Even if we dump Z, and sign nothing but minimum-salary guys for our bench... we still would only
have about 5-8 million dollars in cap space.

We WILL NOT BE SIGNING a marquee free-agent in 2010

The ONLY way the Cavalier will get Bosh, or any other marquee free-agent, is through a sign-and-trade.

This means that the Cavaliers have to use this year's expiring contracts to help get talent that will both help us win, and be attractive to a Toronto team if they trade Bosh. Or attractive to another free-agent's team,etc. We also would like to have 3 year and four year contracts of decent players, as they will be 1-2 year contracts when/if we were to make such a trade for a marquee free-agent.
We may also trade for a 2-year contract or 5-year contract... the 2 year contract gives us additional flexibility for NEXT year, as that contract then becomes an expiring..., and we get to put ourselves in the same position that we are in right now..Cap-flexibility. A 5 year contract would be accepted as part of a larger deal, that would bring us a younger talent... for instance; we would accept the contract of Matt Carrol, so we could get Gerald Wallace.

Those of you who are under the illusion that we trying to only take back short contracts... you are wrong. You need to factor-in the economy of the NBA, the direction of the franchise,etc.

LeBron wants to win now... he (we) cannot do that by trading for expiring contracts, because those players are usually not worth anything but their contract. We need talent...let all of those other teams fight over the expiring contracts, and lower their payrolls to depths that force them to be a losing team... we are taking the opposite approach:

Win now, stay strong, keep LeBron, and if-possible, trade for a disgruntled star.

But if we don't get another star... we will still be winning, while everyone else who misses out in 2010..they will just be rebuilding.

[ZackMc72]

you can feed that BS to people all day but at the end the trade you had the cavs taking was crazy we can get alot better deal out of wally and a first.

[ZackMc72]

we shouldnt have to take a bad deal to get g-wal sorry to break it to you g-wal isnt worth even close to that in fact Sac turned down a miller for g-wal trade just the other day. G-wal has been on the block for weeks they arent going to get much for him so they will have to just trade him for a wally, 1st round pick deal or keep him

[heathmalc]

we shouldnt have to take a bad deal to get g-wal sorry to break it to you g-wal isnt worth even close to that in fact Sac turned down a miller for g-wal trade just the other day. G-wal has been on the block for weeks they arent going to get much for him so they will have to just trade him for a wally, 1st round pick deal or keep him

Dude, you obviously know very little about basketball.. or you wouldn't be caught dead making the above statement.

Second... Sacramento never turned-down anything... There was only one article about Gerald and Sac-Town, and it said that the Bobcats had been RUMORED to be offering Wallace for Miller... but that it was believed that Sacramento wouldn't take the trade because Wallace has a large contract, and the Kings had enough wing-players.

Nobody ever suggested that Sacramento had actually turned down a deal...or that Charlotte had actually ever offered it.

Gerald Wallace is 100X the player Wally ever was. And Wallace is worth 2 draft picks easily... the fact that we are a playoff contender makes him MORE valuable to us than to Charlotte. The Fact he is young, and one of the League's elite defenders makes him even more valuable.

The Trade I suggested where we take-on Matt Carrol and Nazr Mohammed so we can get Wallace, is WELL worth it for the Cavs...as Carrol and Nazr fill two other needs for us.

[mg]

Of course the Cavs want to win it all this year but they also have to think about 2010. Any player they trade for has to be young enough to make LeBron want to sign another extension with the Cavs. This is why I don't see them trading for older players like Carter with long contracts but certainly could see them trade for younger players that could grow with LeBron that have longer deals. You seem to be pushing GWallace but the Cavs better do their research on him. They would be royally screwed with that contract if they did trade for Wallace and he suffered another concussion. With that said I would think Ferry would pull the trigger on GWall at the deadline but maybe something better comes up between now and then.

[Hydroponic3385]

The Cavs will very likely NOT sign a "marquee" free agent in 2010, but before then 1) they'll make a trade with either Wally or Ben's contract in the next year, so we'll get a G. Wallace/M. Miller level player from that 2) If we re-sign Andy, we have two VERY promising big men in Andy and JJ 3) we'll sign someone of the Tyson Chandler/Shane Battier caliber at the least.

[bcortell]

I don't know why you have Jawad's salary still.

Also, I don't think AV gets that good of a deal.

One more thing- do you have to start a new thread for every thought that pops in your head? Look a page or two back and see other threads about this subject! ( viewtopic.php?f=11&t=860188 and viewtopic.php?f=11&t=864472 and I'm sure there's more. Just freaking post in one of them. This is exactly why all of your trade ideas were merged into one thread at RCF- can you not learn from your past?)

[heathmalc]

I don't know why you have Jawad's salary still.

Also, I don't think AV gets that good of a deal.

One more thing- do you have to start a new thread for every thought that pops in your head? Look a page or two back and see other threads about this subject! ( viewtopic.php?f=11&t=860188 and viewtopic.php?f=11&t=864472 and I'm sure there's more. Just freaking post in one of them. This is exactly why all of your trade ideas were merged into one thread at RCF- can you not learn from your past?)

Easy Killer. It is just a post. I am sure that many threads you have started could have put in posts that were three pages back also. But on to the subject at hand:

Jawad: The reason his salary is included, is because that is the Q.O. for that season. I personally think that he still stick, so I would assume he is given at-least that much. HOWEVER - even if he is traded, or cut, the guy who replaces him will likely make at-least that much, so adding his salary or removing it is not that big of a deal.

Andy - Andy's contract for 09 is 7.2 million. And if the Cavaliers re-sign him, his salary will be at-least 8.5 million (Not that much of an increase for that type of player, and may even be below market-value). The 500K that would be the difference between the 8.5 and the 9 million, will not have an effect on whether the Cavaliers sign a marquee free-agent.

One thing of note however - I think you may be right about Zydrunas, taking his current injury into account. I think he is done after this contract, unless something extraordinary happens.

[eyejayem]

Wel I guess from what I believe from what we seen. Bosh is likely to be traded by next Feb. But if Tor is doing good they don't move him and it is unlikely that they will start out as bad as they did this year. If he makes it passed the Feb I believe Cavs have a better shot at him than any other team.

Every other team has the capspace but they will likely not have the players. Cavs will have the players to at least offer a S&T with picks. Bosh demands a S&T with the Cavs or he goes to a team with cap like NY or NJ and Tor gets nothing in return. Bosh gets max dollars and max deal from Tor in a S&T which would give him more money than those teams with cap, he gets to play with Lebron, Cavs get their man, and Toronto gets something in return. Toronto can still make a run at free a free agent since they get JO's contract off the books also.

[ForeveRaptorFan]

Wel I guess from what I believe from what we seen. Bosh is likely to be traded by next Feb. But if Tor is doing good they don't move him and it is unlikely that they will start out as bad as they did this year. If he makes it passed the Feb I believe Cavs have a better shot at him than any other team.

Every other team has the capspace but they will likely not have the players. Cavs will have the players to at least offer a S&T with picks. Bosh demands a S&T with the Cavs or he goes to a team with cap like NY or NJ and Tor gets nothing in return. Bosh gets max dollars and max deal from Tor in a S&T which would give him more money than those teams with cap, he gets to play with Lebron, Cavs get their man, and Toronto gets something in return. Toronto can still make a run at free a free agent since they get JO's contract off the books also.

You're kidding right? What you are saying is completely delusional, no offense. What kind of offer can the Cavs put up that could possibly satisfy a S&T with the Raps? ASSUMING if (and that is a big if) Bosh is going to demand out, the least the Raptors could get is from a team like MIA with a good prospect such as Beasley + expiring + picks coming the other way and Bosh could work with another suitable superstar in Wade who is also a good buddy of his. Cavs could offer nothing of that. There is no way Colangelo would just give him up for a pure salary dump and useless late late 1st round picks, really not that big of a difference than just letting him go in 2010.

The likely hood of Cavs getting Bosh is only through FA, and that likelyhood seems slim with this post being made, and that is pretty much the only route. That or LBJ and Mo williams going down the whole year next year having the Cavs tanking for a top 5 pick in 09'.

[bcortell]

I don't know why you have Jawad's salary still.

Also, I don't think AV gets that good of a deal.

One more thing- do you have to start a new thread for every thought that pops in your head? Look a page or two back and see other threads about this subject! ( viewtopic.php?f=11&t=860188 and viewtopic.php?f=11&t=864472 and I'm sure there's more. Just freaking post in one of them. This is exactly why all of your trade ideas were merged into one thread at RCF- can you not learn from your past?)

Easy Killer. It is just a post. I am sure that many threads you have started could have put in posts that were three pages back also. But on to the subject at hand:

Jawad: The reason his salary is included, is because that is the Q.O. for that season. I personally think that he still stick, so I would assume he is given at-least that much. HOWEVER - even if he is traded, or cut, the guy who replaces him will likely make at-least that much, so adding his salary or removing it is not that big of a deal.

Andy - Andy's contract for 09 is 7.2 million. And if the Cavaliers re-sign him, his salary will be at-least 8.5 million (Not that much of an increase for that type of player, and may even be below market-value). The 500K that would be the difference between the 8.5 and the 9 million, will not have an effect on whether the Cavaliers sign a marquee free-agent.

One thing of note however - I think you may be right about Zydrunas, taking his current injury into account. I think he is done after this contract, unless something extraordinary happens.

Not sure where you're getting your numbers from but Sham has no QO for Jawad for 2010.. and Andy's salary at 6.2 for 09. http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages ... aliers.jsp

[heathmalc]

Not sure where you're getting your numbers from but Sham has no QO for Jawad for 2010.. and Andy's salary at 6.2 for 09.

Andy's Salary is 6.2 in 09..IF he picks-up his PO. But he wont, because the Cavs will give him a new contract this summer. That was my whole point.

As for where I got the Salary info:http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?s=8bd88646bc04c9eabf8eb93ba06bb804&t=10411

[heathmalc]

You're kidding right? What you are saying is completely delusional, no offense. What kind of offer can the Cavs put up that could possibly satisfy a S&T with the Raps?......

Well, if the Cavs have Gerald Wallace signed then, like I think they will...

Then they will have some pretty attractive pieces for Toronto:

Anderson Varejao
Gerald Wallace
JJ Hickson
Draft picks

I think those are pretty interesting pieces...especially if JJ breaks out by the end of this year.

[bcortell]

Not sure where you're getting your numbers from but Sham has no QO for Jawad for 2010.. and Andy's salary at 6.2 for 09.

Andy's Salary is 6.2 in 09..IF he picks-up his PO. But he wont, because the Cavs will give him a new contract this summer. That was my whole point.

As for where I got the Salary info:http://www.realcavsfans.com/showthread.php?s=8bd88646bc04c9eabf8eb93ba06bb804&t=10411

You have 7.2 not 6.2.. and I really don't think AV will get a contract starting at 8.5 mil.. I would think something around or just under 7 is where he'll end up.. and quite possibly make less in 2010 like Boobie's deal.

Also, I see there being no way that we pick up the option for Jawad.. the reason why the contract is like that as stated "Cavs have a team option on the second year for Jawad Williams. Why? Players with a one year contract can veto trades, so Ferry doesn't give out one year deals if he can avoid it."

[heathmalc]

I also doubt that we pick up the option on Jawad... but regardless, we have to have "someone" on the roster... and I don't think that the difference between the 700k we would pay a minimum FA, and the 1 million we'd pay for a hypothetical QO is going to make or break us.

My only argument is that we wont have enough money to sign a free-agent. In-fact, I don't believe we'll even be anywhere close to the salary-cap. I expect us to be 18-25 million over the cap by 2010. But that's just my opinion...and you know what they say about those?

[ForeveRaptorFan]

You're kidding right? What you are saying is completely delusional, no offense. What kind of offer can the Cavs put up that could possibly satisfy a S&T with the Raps?......

Well, if the Cavs have Gerald Wallace signed then, like I think they will...

Then they will have some pretty attractive pieces for Toronto:

Anderson Varejao
Gerald Wallace
JJ Hickson
Draft picks

I think those are pretty interesting pieces...especially if JJ breaks out by the end of this year.

Not close. G-Wall is likely to be a negative for us than a positive. He has a long contract, injury prone, and is useless to a rebuilding team (if we trade Bosh). You're going to need a upcoming star in return at the minimum (see Kidd/Harris trade, Gasol/Gasol trade) in order for you to get a big named player, and JJ Hickson at the moment does not nearly count as one.

Raptors will pass.

[heathmalc]

Raptors will pass.

You, like all fans, are entitled to your opinion.

[ForeveRaptorFan]

Raptors will pass.

You, like all fans, are entitled to your opinion.

Of course, as of you yourself. Although I would take a more realistic approach than not. The trade scenarios listed are likely to happen, just in your dreams though.

[bcortell]

I also doubt that we pick up the option on Jawad... but regardless, we have to have "someone" on the roster... and I don't think that the difference between the 700k we would pay a minimum FA, and the 1 million we'd pay for a hypothetical QO is going to make or break us.

My only argument is that we wont have enough money to sign a free-agent. In-fact, I don't believe we'll even be anywhere close to the salary-cap. I expect us to be 18-25 million over the cap by 2010. But that's just my opinion...and you know what they say about those?

And I'm saying you are prematurely saying that. That is my point.

About Jawad- the difference isn't much but a min salary can be picked up after all signings while he would be on the book beforehand. And if you doubt we pick the option up on Jawad- why would you put him in your opening post? .. right..

I'm not saying we will or won't have cap space (I don't think we will have enough to sign a Bosh/Amare..) but you shoudln't be coming on here saying all these statements that are either wrong (like Jawad being on the roster) or premature (like how much AV will make)..

[heathmalc]

About Jawad- the difference isn't much but a min salary can be picked up after all signings while he would be on the book beforehand. And if you doubt we pick the option up on Jawad- why would you put him in your opening post? .. right..

You are right... if there is 12 players on the roster. If not, then there is a roster charge that is equal to the minimum salary anyway. so without Jawad (or any other player), then there would be 5 charges (we'd only have 7 players on the roster, assuming we renounced Z, and others besides LeBron)

So to assume a certain amount of money is appropriate. You have to take into account the cap-holds on any draft picks that are unsigned, any free-agents who aren't renounced, roster-charges for every player under 12-players. Also, another thing I forgot to add into all of that was any exceptions we may have... those count against the salary cap too! So, if we don't use the Bi-annual next year, or we do use it this year, then that will count against the cap, as will the mid-level exception and any traded player exceptions that we have - they all count. There are a few other things too that would count that I can't think of off the top of my head... but in any case, we will not have any cap-space because I am sure that the Cavaliers are not going that route.

Yes, it may be pre-mature to say that, however, I am about as positive as I can possibly be that we will have no cap space...whether or not we ink Varejao to a new deal this summer, or he exercises his PO (unlikely).

I'm not saying that your argument is invalid, because you raise perfectly legitimate reasoning for why the Cavaliers "could" have cap space. However, I wouldn't go holding my breath on it.